Beto O’Rourke Donated Just 0.7% of His Income to Charity Since 2008

TCROW

Well-Known Member
I actually agree wth T-crow. I don't believe in such a thing as altruism. There's no such thing. I will allow as how the way they parsed it was pretty crude, but in the rational self-interest department, people only act when there's a perceived benefit to them (if only in the hereafter). Even Mother Theresa did not act out of some kind of altruism, but rather a belief system that said that her reward for her charity was laid up in heaven.

Precisely. There is no such thing as pure altruism. People donating their time, money because it makes them “feel good” is not altruism because they are getting something out of it — the good feels.

I’m not suggesting none of this stuff isn’t worth doing, it’s just not an expression of altruism. You always get something - or at least the expectation of something - in return.
 
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PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
EVERYONE. There’s and old saying: “Scratch an altruist and watch a hypocrite bleed.”

There are precisely two reasons people give to charity: tax write-offs and it makes them feel good because they think they are doing something by throwing money at a situation.

Then they get invited to all the swanky parties at the end of the year and swill cheap Chardonnay.
Why would someone give $1 to write off at most $0.37?
 

TCROW

Well-Known Member
Why would someone give $1 to write off at most $0.37?

Beats me.

I know precisely how and why I use charitable donations to achieve a certain outcome w/r/t taxes, but I since I'm not familiar with your financials, I can't speak for you.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
And, there's very little reality in the world in which you live.

Agree.

I've not only had the "no such thing as true altruism" argument here - but elsewhere. It's long, tedious and only works because of the base assumption that people have a reason, whether intentional or reactive, for everything they do. It's stupid. I would go nuts trying to figure out why I do everything. I just do it. If I fart or belch, it's not because I want to annoy someone, or enjoy the consequences. It just happens.

I reject the base assumption. Sometimes, I just do stuff. The same kind of assumption that people do things for reasons is the reason people find patterns and order where none exists, because their minds are wired that way. Insects react, and mammals often show compassion, and I guarantee they don't give it a lot of thought.

But it's a combination of word games, long tortuous logic and cynicism - taken further, it obviates virtually all human kindness, compassion and love,
because one way or another, it suggests we only ever do something because we expect a benefit from it.

I don't see it that way, and I don't self-examine before I do everything I do. I don't stop on the road to help a turtle cross because I think GOD will reward me, or the satisfaction of telling myself I did a good thing, because moments later, I've totally forgotten about it.

I think in logical fallacies, it falls somewhere in "finding the right reason", where you analyze AFTERWARD why something is done, and retroactively explaining it that way.

ANYWAY

While I can accept the idea that "true" altruism cannot exist - because it's nigh unto impossible for humans to ever be totally selfless - I categorically reject the notion that people give to charity either to write it off or to brag about it later. I know, because I do neither. I don't care to calculate the amount of write-off and document it (and you HAVE to) and I typically forget about it later.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Beats me.

I know precisely how and why I use charitable donations to achieve a certain outcome w/r/t taxes, but I since I'm not familiar with your financials, I can't speak for you.
That YOU are that callous, cold, and calculating does not imply that everyone is.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Agree.

I've not only had the "no such thing as true altruism" argument here - but elsewhere. It's long, tedious and only works because of the base assumption that people have a reason, whether intentional or reactive, for everything they do. It's stupid. I would go nuts trying to figure out why I do everything. I just do it. If I fart or belch, it's not because I want to annoy someone, or enjoy the consequences. It just happens.

I reject the base assumption. Sometimes, I just do stuff. The same kind of assumption that people do things for reasons is the reason people find patterns and order where none exists, because their minds are wired that way. Insects react, and mammals often show compassion, and I guarantee they don't give it a lot of thought.

But it's a combination of word games, long tortuous logic and cynicism - taken further, it obviates virtually all human kindness, compassion and love,
because one way or another, it suggests we only ever do something because we expect a benefit from it.

I don't see it that way, and I don't self-examine before I do everything I do. I don't stop on the road to help a turtle cross because I think GOD will reward me, or the satisfaction of telling myself I did a good thing, because moments later, I've totally forgotten about it.

I think in logical fallacies, it falls somewhere in "finding the right reason", where you analyze AFTERWARD why something is done, and retroactively explaining it that way.

ANYWAY

While I can accept the idea that "true" altruism cannot exist - because it's nigh unto impossible for humans to ever be totally selfless - I categorically reject the notion that people give to charity either to write it off or to brag about it later. I know, because I do neither. I don't care to calculate the amount of write-off and document it (and you HAVE to) and I typically forget about it later.
I once say a short example of this in practice. Someone gave money to a panhandler, and a person nearby said, "Don't you know he's probably a scam artist and just scammed you?"

The donator answered back, "well, then that's on him. If I see someone in need, I try to help them if I can. If they are lying, that's on their soul, but if I don't help, that's on mine."

Sometimes - not always, TCROW, but sometimes - people just do things because it is the right thing to do. Not to pat themselves on the back, not to write off the income, not to look better in God's or their girlfriend's/boyfriend's eyes, or to pick up someone, or to gain the flattery of peers....just because it is the right thing to do in their mind.

I have donated a lot and not written it off. I generally donate at least 40 hours of leave per year to people who need it, and I can't write that off. I don't tout it generally, but I am using it here as an example. No one here knows my name or where I work or anything else about me so I can't get any accolades for it....I just did it because I felt it was the right thing to do. And, I know many people who do that without ever being seen or calling it out to others.

They say character is best judged by how you act when no one will know how you act. TCROW clearly has one type of character, reality has another one.
 

TCROW

Well-Known Member
That YOU are that callous, cold, and calculating does not imply that everyone is.

I don’t know about you, but I’ve read the Gospels and the truth isn’t supposed to be a hard pill to swallow.

This is the natural state of humans: we act out of self-interest. Call it cold and callous, it doesn’t change the natural state of things.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
I don’t know about you, but I’ve read the Gospels and the truth isn’t supposed to be a hard pill to swallow.

This is the natural state of humans: we act out of self-interest. Call it cold and callous, it doesn’t change the natural state of things.
I've read them, too, and I know that the goal is to be better than our base nature. We aspire, with the full knowledge we will never attain, to be like Jesus. Jesus was altruistic.

It IS absolutely possible to do for others with absolutely no expectation of anything in return - not even a warm fuzzy feeling. Not only is it possible, I know from personal experience that it is and has been and will be again done.

that, my friend, is actual reality.
 

TCROW

Well-Known Member
I've read them, too, and I know that the goal is to be better than our base nature. We aspire, with the full knowledge we will never attain, to be like Jesus. Jesus was altruistic.

Jesus may be the only pure altruist - he could make something out of nothing.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Jesus may be the only pure altruist - he could make something out of nothing.
Yes, He may have been the only PURE one, but no the only one to have done things for no other reason than it's the right thing. Many actions are altruistic that are not from PURE altruism - as in the person may not be pure at all times, but some of that person's actions certainly can be. THAT, my friend, is reality.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
I categorically reject the notion that people give to charity either to write it off or to brag about it later




I'm sure some do ... however most do not .... wasn't there a parable about giving and bragging about it
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
O'Rourke earned $366,455 in 2017

In 2017 Beto was (and still is) a member of the House of Representatives. The salary for someone in the house is $175,000. How does someone earning $175k make $336,455? This is more of a concern for me than what he's donating to charity. This is the problem with politics - how they appear to be using their position of authority to benefit themselves financially.
 

TCROW

Well-Known Member
Yes, He may have been the only PURE one, but no the only one to have done things for no other reason than it's the right thing. Many actions are altruistic that are not from PURE altruism - as in the person may not be pure at all times, but some of that person's actions certainly can be. THAT, my friend, is reality.

Ah but what you’re missing is that doing something for no other reason than it’s the right thing to do IS the reward. That action is borne from self-interest.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that, mind you. As I’ve said: it’s normal human behavior and recognition of that isn’t indicative of being cold, callous, or calculating.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Ah but what you’re missing is that doing something for no other reason than it’s the right thing to do IS the reward. That action is borne from self-interest.

So, you're saying the mere concept of altruism is invalid, because it's like asking "are you so powerful that you can make a rock so big you can't lift it?" - as in, the very concept of doing something for no reward - since that is the reward itself - is physically impossible to ever achieve? Therefore, even Jesus, who did things because it was the right thing to do, was not actually altruistic?

Or, how was Jesus different?
 
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