Bitcoin

[Pete]

Can someone tell me what this is. I read something about it and it didn't make any sense. Evidently it is some sort of cyber currency.

 

[Grumpy]

When you wrap your head around it, let us all know.

 

[Bann]

Thing2 tried to 'splain this to me yesterday! Best I can figure, it is, like you said- cyber (virtual?) currency. Not sure how one acquires it, though, and how to spend it!

 

[slotpuppy]

Never heard of it. :shrug:

 

[dave1959]

This wont help much....Bitcoin - Open source P2P money..

I read through most of it and It did not answer a single question I had.

 

[MadDogMarine]

This wont help much....Bitcoin - Open source P2P money..

I read through most of it and It did not answer a single question I had.

The govt. hates it-that should be enough for people to want to learn about it.! Does NOT go through any financial institution, virtually untrackable and cannot be taxed. It is like a large non-centralized bank for the little guy.

Here is alittle more info:Bitcoin: The Simplest Non-technical Explanation - Zorinaq

Bitcoin: The Simplest Non-technical Explanation
Bitcoin is diametrically opposed to all existing electronic currencies, a radically new concept that is quite difficult to explain, to a point that many articles on Bitcoin mistakenly compare it to Beenz, e-gold, Flooz, PayPal, Pecunix, etc, This is always a sign that the authors do not comprehend the main pillar of Bitcoin's design.
Bitcoin is the world's first invention of a decentralized electronic currency, with no central authority or trusted parties whatsoever, as its inventor originally describes. Not even the Bitcoin developers themselves have special control of Bitcoin. Compare this to other e-currencies that are operated by central authorities that are single points of failure: they have a history of regulating transactions (Paypal blocking donations to Wikileak, etc), or simply failing and shutting down (Beenz, etc).
If Bitcoin is confusing to you, that is normal. Bitcoin is best explained by this list of analogies. Read carefully:

Bitcoin is like digital gold.
By design, there is a known, immutable, fixed supply of bitcoins, similar to gold being available in limited quantity on Earth. There are 2.1 quadrillion indivisible units of value (0.00000001 bitcoins), and not one more will ever exist.
Bitcoins are digital, therefore you can instantly transfer them to anybody across the world.
Bitcoins are stored locally on your electronic device (cellphone, computer), contrary to being stored in an account managed by a financial institution. This is similar to how you can store cash or gold in a physical location of your choice. This means there is no "Bitcoin account" that can be frozen by someone in power (eg. your spouse making malicious claims to seize a bank account during a divorce).

See more at link.

 

[czygvtwkr]

It is some imaginary bull#### that people say is worth money, it is only worth money because people are willing to pay for it. For lack of a better term think galactic empire credits.

 

[b23hqb]

It is some imaginary bull#### that people say is worth money, it is only worth money because people are willing to pay for it. For lack of a better term think galactic empire credits.

A lot like the imaginary numbers the current administration comes up in just about every aspect of their existence.

 

[Dakota]

It is some imaginary bull#### that people say is worth money, it is only worth money because people are willing to pay for it. For lack of a better term think galactic empire credits.

That is the way I understand it also. I find it dangerously risky investing that is not regulated. IMO, it attracts those trying to avoid paying taxes, greedy and illegal activity. I am not a fan of having a mining program running on my computer almost like the old shareware program that was used back when file sharing was popular to pirate music.

There are several videos on youtube about it like "Bitcoin for dummies" which is ironic because the entire process is extremely complex.

 

[DoWhat]

I have 4 Million.

 

[MadDogMarine]

It is some imaginary bull#### that people say is worth money, it is only worth money because people are willing to pay for it. For lack of a better term think galactic empire credits.

Ha, you just described Federal Reserve Notes very accurately. A $100.00 FRN has an inherent value of about 2 cents($.02) which is the cost of the paper and ink used to print it. It's worth is only established from people willing to use it as a means of exchange.
The major difference is there is no end to the QUANTITY of FRN's they print where Bitcoins have a FIXED total quantity amount. The more FRN's they print the less value it carries and the more expensive products become(called inflation). Bitcoin was established to specifically STOP banks from printing more paper(also known as a hidden tax), For politicians, it is more politically expedient to lessen the value of the dollar than to take a vote to raise taxes.

 

[MadDogMarine]

That is the way I understand it also. I find it dangerously risky investing that is not regulated. IMO, it attracts those trying to avoid paying taxes, greedy and illegal activity. I am not a fan of having a mining program running on my computer almost like the old shareware program that was used back when file sharing was popular to pirate music.

There are several videos on youtube about it like "Bitcoin for dummies" which is ironic because the entire process is extremely complex.

People have confidence in the dollar. Look at the attached worth of a dollar since it was first established in 1913. People are having their dollar assets gradually stolen from them and the govt is not involved in greed and illegal activity???? They would have never gotten away with this if we had stayed on the Gold standard in this country since you can't just print more gold.

 

[tommyjo]

Ha, you just described Federal Reserve Notes very accurately. A $100.00 FRN has an inherent value of about 2 cents($.02) which is the cost of the paper and ink used to print it. It's worth is only established from people willing to use it as a means of exchange.
The major difference is there is no end to the QUANTITY of FRN's they print where Bitcoins have a FIXED total quantity amount. The more FRN's they print the less value it carries and the more expensive products become(called inflation). Bitcoin was established to specifically STOP banks from printing more paper(also known as a hidden tax), For politicians, it is more politically expedient to lessen the value of the dollar than to take a vote to raise taxes.

Ha, no. You are wrong on every point, except possibly the value of the raw materials used to create an FRN, that I don't know.

The worth of an FRN is printed on the face and reverse.

The credibility of the note, what incentivizes people/businesses/governments to use it as the world's reserve currency, is that it is backed up by the full faith and credit of the US. The US, despite the recent attempts by the idiots of the Tea Party, has never failed to pay its debts. We have, by far, the world's largest and most diverse economy.

While too many dollars in circulation CAN create inflation, inflation is NOT the required end result. There must be demand for the inflation to take hold. Today there is insufficient demand therefore there is no system wide inflation problem.

Banks do not print money.

Bitcoin was established and is being used as a means to hide from taxes and public disclosure. Some individuals with good intent have invested. Some will do really well. Most will not. Unless Bitcoin is legitimized by world govt's and taxed, it will die. Should it become taxed, the current market for Bitcoins will dry up.

Politicians have no control over the money supply. That is the purview of the Federal Reserve thru their Open Market Committee activities. Taxation has no effect on the money supply.

However, you are correct that creating inflation or lowering real (inflation adjusted) levels of interest rates is a proven way to get a handle on a government debt problem (see Federal Reserve actions post WWII). This is done by the Federal Reserve, not Congress or the President.

 

[tommyjo]

People have confidence in the dollar. Look at the attached worth of a dollar since it was first established in 1913. People are having their dollar assets gradually stolen from them and the govt is not involved in greed and illegal activity???? They would have never gotten away with this if we had stayed on the Gold standard in this country since you can't just print more gold.

No, wrong.

Lord, the gold standard? Really?

So it is your position based on that idiotic graph, that ONLY prices have gone up?

Or did you forget that wages and standards of living have risen as well since 1913?

 

[MadDogMarine]

See my comments posted below.

Ha, no. You are wrong on every point, except possibly the value of the raw materials used to create an FRN, that I don't know.

The worth of an FRN is printed on the face and reverse.
Anyone with a money printing machine(plates)can just change the face amount printed e.g $100/$50/$20. So what is your point. Since when does changing the amount printed on a paper (2 cents worth) change the value of the paper???

The credibility of the note, what incentivizes people/businesses/governments to use it as the world's reserve currency, is that it is backed up by the full faith and credit of the US.
????????????
The full faith and credit of the US is worth about -(minus) 17 Trillion Dollars.
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

The US, despite the recent attempts by the idiots of the Tea Party, has never failed to pay its debts. We have, by far, the world's largest and most diverse economy.

The U.S. has

As of July 2013, currency in circulation—that is, U.S. coins and paper currency in the hands of the public—totaled about $1.2 trillion dollars.

How Currency Gets into Circulation - Fedpoints - Federal Reserve Bank of New York

We have a total amount of 1.2 trillion in money presently in circulation and $17 trillion in debt. We have almost 17 times debt in dollars as we have total currency(dollars) in circulation. What wonderful news, I guess we should all be jumping up and down for joy because we have the world's largest and most diverse economy!!

While too many dollars in circulation CAN create inflation, inflation is NOT the required end result. There must be demand for the inflation to take hold. Today there is insufficient demand therefore there is no system wide inflation problem.
No system wide inflation problem?? Tell that to the shoppers who used to be able to fill a grocery cart for $40.00 but now costs $140.00???

Banks do not print money.
?????????? Sorry, the Federal Reserve is a BANK and is responsible for the printing of money, They just don't push the buttons to start the machines???

The Federal Reserve ORDERS new currency from the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, which produces the appropriate denominations and ships them directly to the Reserve Banks. Each note costs about four cents to produce, though the cost varies slightly by denomination.

I made a mistake. Due to the increased security features to prevent counterfeiting, the cost of a FRN regardless of denomination is approx 4 cents, not 2 cents as I posted earlier , My BAD!
How Currency Gets into Circulation - Fedpoints - Federal Reserve Bank of New York

Bitcoin was established and is being used as a means to hide from taxes and public disclosure. Some individuals with good intent have invested. Some will do really well. Most will not. Unless Bitcoin is legitimized by world govt's and taxed, it will die. Should it become taxed, the current market for Bitcoins will dry up.
My opinion is Bitcoins are going to be used WITHOUT govt permission.It is called bartering. One can barter with chickens, goats, vegetables,gold,silver and/ or Bitcoins.

Politicians have no control over the money supply. That is the purview of the Federal Reserve thru their Open Market Committee activities. Taxation has no effect on the money supply.

“Some people think that the Federal Reserve Banks are United States Government institutions. They are private monopolies which prey upon the people of these United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic speculators and swindlers; and rich and predatory money lenders.”
– The Honorable Louis McFadden, Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee in the 1930s

However, you are correct that creating inflation or lowering real (inflation adjusted) levels of interest rates is a proven way to get a handle on a government debt problem (see Federal Reserve actions post WWII). This is done by the Federal Reserve, not Congress or the President.

So who EXACTLY gets the $415,688,781,248.40 INTEREST on the national debt paid in 2013??
No wonder no one is allowed to fully audit the fed!
Government - Interest Expense on the Debt Outstanding

10 Things That Every American Should Know About The Federal Reserve

#2 The Federal Reserve System Is A Perpetual Debt Machine
As long as the Federal Reserve System exists, U.S. government debt will continue to go up and up and up.
This runs contrary to the conventional wisdom that Democrats and Republicans would have us believe, but unfortunately it is true.
The way our system works, whenever more money is created more debt is created as well.
For example, whenever the U.S. government wants to spend more money than it takes in (which happens constantly), it has to go ask the Federal Reserve for it. The federal government gives U.S. Treasury bonds to the Federal Reserve, and the Federal Reserve gives the U.S. government "Federal Reserve Notes" in return. Usually this is just done electronically.
So where does the Federal Reserve get the Federal Reserve Notes?
It just creates them out of thin air.
Wouldn't you like to be able to create money out of thin air?
Instead of issuing money directly, the U.S. government lets the Federal Reserve create it out of thin air and then the U.S. government borrows it.
Talk about stupid.
When this new debt is created, the amount of interest that the U.S. government will eventually pay on that debt is not also created.
So where will that money come from?
Well, eventually the U.S. government will have to go back to the Federal Reserve to get even more money to finance the ever expanding debt that it has gotten itself trapped into.

 

[MadDogMarine]

No, wrong.

Lord, the gold standard? Really?

So it is your position based on that idiotic graph, that ONLY prices have gone up?

Or did you forget that wages and standards of living have risen as well since 1913?

What can I say to a comment like this?? except may you and your children and your children's children enjoy paying off trillions of dollars of debt. That would surely make you a proud Grandpa, wouldn't it??

 

[Dakota]

MDM,

I get your point but right now, I'm not so sure investing anywhere is all that safe. Last year, I posted a picture of the sign outside the bank that says F.D.I.C. insured on my Facebook and I made some comment like "yeah, makes me feel warm and cozy." I was being a smart ass because it doesn't. The U.S. doesn't have enough gold to support the money in circulation now, in fact, back in 04; gold would have had to be valued at 2800 an oz. just to support what currency was in circulation at the time. I understand the need, desire, and interest for creating a different currency system than what we have in place. Something seems fundamentally wrong when our banks can borrow our money and lend it back to us at up the ass rates - all while paying bank executive’s big salaries... but cyber money... I'm not sure is the answer.


Oh wow...

check this out...

Today an article appeared in PC World on this very subject....


Sneaky software turns your PC into a Bitcoin-mining zombie -- and owns up to it in the EULA | PCWorld

 

[GURPS]

There are several videos on youtube about it like "Bitcoin for dummies" which is ironic because the entire process is extremely complex.

mining with your PC is pretty much a waste of electricity

there are these stand alone boxes that crunch the numbers more efficiently now

and yes there are only X number of 'coins' due to limitations in the algorithm, not like FRN that Obama keeps printing by the billions .......

the value is what people willing to Buy / Sell them for vs X Currency

 

[b23hqb]

I have 4 Million.

The 5-7 NY football Giants win the division! Bitcoins or not.

 

[czygvtwkr]

mining with your PC is pretty much a waste of electricity

But doing it with someone elses without their knowledge is free