Brunell Clipboard Graduation...

Penn

Dancing Up A Storm
Didn't I read in the Washington Times sports section, that Joe Gibbs is going to stick with Brunell, for the foreseeable future?
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
I dunno...

otter said:
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/otterzzz/romperroom.jpg">
And Al gets the Good Do Bee Award for toeing the company line.

...to me, it doesn't sound very good when your new big $ hot shot OC is saying that he is just NOW getting to know your big $ hot shot QB.

Gibbs decisions to NASCAR this thing, to make himself the CEO and just get the best people for everything else for him to just oversee is to say that Gibbs, the coach, is a transferable gift.

Maybe it'll work.
 

Otter

Nothing to see here
Larry Gude said:
..... it doesn't sound very good when your new big $ hot shot OC is saying that he is just NOW getting to know your big $ hot shot QB.

Gibbs decisions to NASCAR this thing, to make himself the CEO and just get the best people for everything else for him to just oversee is to say that Gibbs, the coach, is a transferable gift.

Maybe it'll work.

I just dunno what to think. Brunell is old and beat up, doesn't want to take a hit and can't move as well as he used to. When I've seen Saunders offense at its best, he's had fearless quarterbacks that would wait til the last second to get the ball off(Warner, Green). Warner wasn't a scrambler but would wait til the final second to get the ball off..Green buys time with his movement and he also will take a hit. Brunell has lost the willingness to take a hit and dumps the ball early rather than wait for a pattern to open. I honestly thought that the offense would be much better than it is by now, and I don't take the notion that its because Portis has been a part time player. I still think Betts is just a notch below Portis in ability and the run game is not the problem.

I've felt since Gibbs got here and immediately got Williams that he was gonna coach 3 yrs and turn the reins over to Williams so he could move upstairs. Getting Saunders just made me believe more so.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Hmmm...

otter said:
Saunders offense at its best, he's had fearless quarterbacks that would wait until the last second to get the ball off(Warner, Green). Warner wasn't a scrambler but would wait until the final second to get the ball off..Green buys time with his movement and he also will take a hit.

...now who was it who, it was said, waited too long and was too willing to take a hit to give his guys time to run the routes? Didn't we have a guy like that not too long ago? Hmmm...

Here's the bigger picture I've been mulling.

Gibb's goal here seems to be to NASCAR this thing, repeat what brought success for him there and, in my opinion, that is just not how football works.

For his race team, he got the best people; best mechanics, best crew chief, best this and that and that was his job, getting the people, giving them the tools, setting the goal and letting them do their job.

Football is not compartmentalized like that. Yes, a race team has to work 'together' in the sense that a great driver's got nothing with a mediocre engine or vice versa or if his tires don't get changed fast enough or correctly; you need it all BUT building that engine is physically separate and not dependent on the driver in any way until his part, driving, comes in, at which point the engine guys are spectators. Same thing in all areas; you can get your part right, mostly independent of the other areas.

Now, Brunell talks to some kid on the sideline, Bill Lazar, with Saunders upstairs, ostensibly in charge, with Gibbs looking like some master chef walking gingerly around a kitchen trying desperately to not interfere. Maybe Lazar is Gods gift to the position. Maybe Saunders has called the right play every time. Maybe Gibbs is doing a great job of not messing up the recipe. But is it just too much bureaucracy? Everything has to work, directly, together in football.

Who's in charge of the O line? The assistant head coach/offense/Saunders? Or assistant head coach/offense Bugel? Or offensive coordinator Breaux? Offensive assistant Burns? What's Gibbs role? Who answers to who? How many bosses could you have before you find it impossible to find out who you need to satisfy to even know if you're doing what that person, whomever it may be, wants you to do? And then coordinate with the other parts of the offense? Same thing on defense. At what point does excess = counterproductivity enter the equation?

What kind of halftime adjustments are going on? Who's doing them? Gibbs? Lazar? Al? Buges?

Gibbs magic in football was him working, first hand, with what he had and making adjustments based on that and being able to apply, first hand, his will to win. Would he have picked a John Riggins or a Joe Theismann or Russ Grimm? Or was part of the success that he was stuck with them, Riggo and Joe, had to make do? Was it a huge benefit to have Bobby Beathard in drafting and digging up free agents? Would Beathard have liked Portis who came from a system that has a very different O line and style than ours? Would he have seen Brunell still as a starter?

Would Beathard have picked Shawn Merriman over Carlos Rogers?

Ben Roethlisburger over Shawn Taylor?

It was well known back in the day in the papers, third hand comments and reading between the lines that Gibbs was usually at odds with Beathard and only really got his way once in awhile. Us old farts remember Gibbs big MUST HAVE guy,WR Walter Murry of Hawaii. Just look at our drafts with Beathard and then 1989 on after he'd left.

I have no doubt that Mark is doing exactly what Gibbs wants him to do; play very cautiously and it does and can work. Mark Brunell didn't make his rep doing that; he was a gunslinger, not a technician, so, I figure he's really struggling with this too. He keeps being told by Gibbs 'you're my guy' so, that means he's doing what Joe wants, yet, he can see more readily than anyone else that it, playing to not make mistakes, also has it's drawbacks.

Gibbs and his CEO style he's trying to adapt to a football team has him majorly invested in all his pieces, including Brunell. Well, all these pieces are not meshing and one more difference between cars and football; You can get better at racing every year and in every area because age and experience are accumulating assets. The shelf life in football is much, much shorter.
 

Oz

You're all F'in Mad...
Larry - Ramsey is a 3rd stringer with the Jets.

Brunell just has to be Trent Dilfer - not John Elway or Brett Favre. For the most part, as you said, he's doing just that.

I'll take Taylor over Roethlisburger.

I think it'll be OK. They're 0-2 and they need to win the next 2. Gibbs has been there, done that.

Teams can't go out and stockpile players anymore with the salary cap, so the Redskins have collected the best coaches in the league. Its the new NFL. That's OK. I'll take Dan Snyder as an owner with Gibbs as a coach every day.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
So what?

Oz said:
Larry - Ramsey is a 3rd stringer with the Jets.

Brunell just has to be Trent Dilfer - not John Elway or Brett Favre.

I'll take Taylor over Roethlisburger.

I think it'll be OK. They're 0-2 and they need to win the next 2. Gibbs has been there, done that.

Teams can't go out and stockpile players anymore with the salary cap, so the Redskins have collected the best coaches in the league. Its the new NFL. That's OK. I'll take Dan Snyder as an owner with Gibbs as a coach every day.

...if you'd take Brunell now over Ramsey had he still been here, fine. You hate the guy. I say he never got a fair chance. The NFL's not fair. Oh well.

Brunell isn't Dilfer. Isn't even Brunell any more. He'll just keep on playing until he gets hurt. I hope Houston doesn't pose to much trouble for our 'Dilfer'.

I'd take Roethlisburger 7 days a week and twice on Sundays over Taylor. I'd take a top QB over any top safety, ever. He lead them to a 15-1 and won a Superbowl. Not to shabby compared to a guy who is lucky to be out of jail and nearly cost us the Tampa Bay playoff game.

As for stockpiling, keeping Ramsey was cheaper than getting Collins. Keeping Clark was way cheaper than getting Archuletta. Mark Brunell cost way more than Ramsey did. Gibbs running his show was $2 mil less than Saunders. I believe we'd be a better team right here and now and had a better year last year had Gibbs went with and stuck with Ramsey anywhere near as long as he has with Mark. We'll never know. I don't see us any worse.

As for my post, it was simply in response to otter saying what style QB Saunders likes, which IS Ramsey and is NOT Brunell, for better or worse.

We've got the Texans, Jaguars, Giants, Titans, Colts and Cowboys the next six. What's 'fine' after that stretch? 4-4? We're gonna go 4-2 the next six games?

Then we go Eagles, Bucs, Panthers, Falcons, Eagles, Saints, Rams Gaints.

Do you actually think Mark Brunell is gonna play all those games and play well enough for us to make the playoffs?

I admire your confidence!
 

Oz

You're all F'in Mad...
Larry Gude said:
We're gonna go 4-2 the next six games?

We're half way there... Just need to go 2-2 in the next 4 games.

Brunell is looking good. :cool:

Remember - first 2 games are like preseason for the starting lineup, since they barely play during the real preseason. Offense is playing well. Coaches are coaching well. Saunders looked like a genius yesterday.

Not ready to say they are playoff bound. But you might have sprained your ankle jumping off of the bandwagon so soon! :yay:
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
I AM the bandwagon...

Oz said:
We're half way there... Just need to go 2-2 in the next 4 games.

Brunell is looking good. :cool:

Remember - first 2 games are like preseason for the starting lineup, since they barely play during the real preseason. Offense is playing well. Coaches are coaching well. Saunders looked like a genius yesterday.

Not ready to say they are playoff bound. But you might have sprained your ankle jumping off of the bandwagon so soon! :yay:

...and Brunell is still 36 and we're still one play away from the other two options.

In the mean time, Mark is playing very, very well and what they are doing right now, ram the ball, time and again and spreading the ball around is gonna be good for plenty of points against ANYONE so we're down to teh D coming into form.

All we need is Brunell to stay upright.
 

Oz

You're all F'in Mad...
Larry Gude said:
...and Brunell is still 36 and we're still one play away from the other two options.

In the mean time, Mark is playing very, very well and what they are doing right now, ram the ball, time and again and spreading the ball around is gonna be good for plenty of points against ANYONE so we're down to teh D coming into form.

All we need is Brunell to stay upright.


If the O-Line does their job, Brunell can do his, and the Redskins win.

This is why I wish preseason consisted of only 2 games. :ohwell:
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
He did not get sacked once...

Oz said:
If the O-Line does their job, Brunell can do his, and the Redskins win.

This is why I wish preseason consisted of only 2 games. :ohwell:

...and still got the snot knocked out of him on that backside hit.

So, what is the O lines 'job'; to make sure no one lays a finger on him?

He WILL get nailed a couple times a game. He is likely to go down at some point this season, as is his history in particular, accentuated by his age, and the nature of the game in general.

We'll just enjoy it while it lasts and hope for a miracle. Joe yesterday thanked God during his post game for giving us that Santana play for the win, so, we're in like Flynn; God apparently loves the Redskins.
 

Pete

Repete
Larry Gude said:
...and still got the snot knocked out of him on that backside hit.

So, what is the O lines 'job'; to make sure no one lays a finger on him?

He WILL get nailed a couple times a game. He is likely to go down at some point this season, as is his history in particular, accentuated by his age, and the nature of the game in general.

We'll just enjoy it while it lasts and hope for a miracle. Joe yesterday thanked God during his post game for giving us that Santana play for the win, so, we're in like Flynn; God apparently loves the Redskins.
He looked pretty nimble and spry yesterday. Of course he was moving around on his own and not running for his life.
 
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