Bush/Cheney 04

SmallTown

Football season!
screw the riots, elect Bush if you want to live!

"It's absolutely essential that eight weeks from today, on Nov. 2, we make the right choice, because if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again and we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States," Cheney told about 350 supporters at a town-hall meeting in this Iowa city.



Bush/Cheney '04 :patriot:
 

Penn

Dancing Up A Storm
I cannot recall either Cheney or Bush saying we're not ever going to hit here at home again; quite the contrary, it's well possible it'll happen again.

However, our intel, law enforcement, and Home Security folks have kept us safe since 9/11, thwarting many attempts so far.

Would you feel as safe under a Kerry/Edwards watch?

That thought gives me some serious heebee jeebies!
 

jlabsher

Sorry about that chief.
I would feel safer, because the rest of the world wouldn't hate us. Bush has done more to alienate the rest of the world (including pissing off a large majority of the muslim world and making their cause real) than any president in history. I always thought politics and leadership was about building bridges, not burning them.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
jlabsher said:
I would feel safer, because the rest of the world wouldn't hate us. Bush has done more to alienate the rest of the world (including pissing off a large majority of the muslim world and making their cause real) than any president in history. I always thought politics and leadership was about building bridges, not burning them.
If Kerry wins, just like Spain, the terrorists will claim victory.. and like Vietnam, Kerry's picture will be enshrined in a Mosque... And in his "reign" Sadr will be made a leader of some third world country as well as other wanted criminals.. just like Arafat.. We WILL be the laughing stock on this planet, and will be seen as weak with little or no resolve, THEN you will really see the attacks start.
 

jlabsher

Sorry about that chief.
itsbob said:
If Kerry wins, just like Spain, the terrorists will claim victory.. and like Vietnam, Kerry's picture will be enshrined in a Mosque... And in his "reign" Sadr will be made a leader of some third world country as well as other wanted criminals.. just like Arafat.. We WILL be the laughing stock on this planet, and will be seen as weak with little or no resolve, THEN you will really see the attacks start.

Just like we were the laughingstock of the world after we "lost" in Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, et al? Yeah, forcing "democracy & freedom" on other nations has worked so well in the past and made us so loved. :dur
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
jlabsher said:
I would feel safer, because the rest of the world wouldn't hate us. Bush has done more to alienate the rest of the world (including pissing off a large majority of the muslim world and making their cause real) than any president in history. I always thought politics and leadership was about building bridges, not burning them.
The terrorists will hate us simply because they hate anyone, including you, that is not like them or part of their particular way of believing. Much of the rest of the world will continue to hate us because of envy of our general affluence.

Wake up!
 

jlabsher

Sorry about that chief.
Hey 2A have you EVER been outside this country, wait have you ever left the COUNTY!?

I have lived outside this country for several years, visited several nations, and still do. Let me assure you before Bush went to Iraq there was no outright hate and envy of this nation. In fact there still isn't, there is, however a feeling of distrust for cowboy presidents. Maybe you don't remember, but after 9/11 there was a deep empathy and show of support for the USA, in fact Le Monde (Paris, France newspaper) declared on 9/12 "We Are All Americans". Then your boy screwed the pooch and soured the rest of the world on US foreign policy with his Iraq policy, which has given strength to terrorists.

Now you can go back to cleaning your guns and memorizing the good book.
 

SmallTown

Football season!
can someone keep a copy of this thread? I don't think I'm going to ge able to login much today and after the last comments, I don't think this thread will last much longer.

TIA

ST
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
jlabsher said:
Hey 2A have you EVER been outside this country, wait have you ever left the COUNTY!?

I have lived outside this country for several years, visited several nations, and still do. Let me assure you before Bush went to Iraq there was no outright hate and envy of this nation. In fact there still isn't, there is, however a feeling of distrust for cowboy presidents. Maybe you don't remember, but after 9/11 there was a deep empathy and show of support for the USA, in fact Le Monde (Paris, France newspaper) declared on 9/12 "We Are All Americans". Then your boy screwed the pooch and soured the rest of the world on US foreign policy with his Iraq policy, which has given strength to terrorists.

Now you can go back to cleaning your guns and memorizing the good book.

Then I don't know where you've been. While I haven't experienced outright hatred - at least not expressed as such - there's been this grumbling resentment for decades over us "being the world's policeman" or our "cultural imperialism" or our "arrogance" "wastefulness", not to mention our trade and business practices, and our consumption of the world's resources.

When people marched against the war overseas, a great deal of the posters remarked on things that have nothing to do with Bush or the present administration. And almost to the last person, almost everyone I know from Latin America grew up despising the US.

We're not universally hated, but the war gave people an opportunity to voice deeply felt grievances they've held for decades.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
jlabsher said:
Hey 2A have you EVER been outside this country, wait have you ever left the COUNTY!?

I have lived outside this country for several years, visited several nations, and still do. Let me assure you before Bush went to Iraq there was no outright hate and envy of this nation. In fact there still isn't, there is, however a feeling of distrust for cowboy presidents. Maybe you don't remember, but after 9/11 there was a deep empathy and show of support for the USA, in fact Le Monde (Paris, France newspaper) declared on 9/12 "We Are All Americans". Then your boy screwed the pooch and soured the rest of the world on US foreign policy with his Iraq policy, which has given strength to terrorists.

Now you can go back to cleaning your guns and memorizing the good book.
What, were you on a freaking boat? When have you actually “lived” in a foreign nation and met with anyone but the "bang-a-sailor" girls that rushed the docks when you guys went into port? Tell the truth for once, you changed your family name from Kerry when he annulled the first marriage, didn't you?

The hate has been there for years and if you didn't suffer from sphincter strangulation induced hypoxia you would have been able to observe this too.

Now someone call a tow truck, his head is really stuck way up his ass.
 

jlabsher

Sorry about that chief.
Well, haven't been to Latin America since Grenada, but Asia, Europe & even parts of Africa & mideast were friendly as recently as 2000. But last year when in Asia I saw more shirts & bumper stickers with anti US stuff, like pix of Osama.

I NEVER remember seeing anything like that before (at least that widespread), and in talking to locals the main questions I am asked relate to our president's motivation & sanity instead of Michael Jordan & rap music.
 

Steve

Enjoying life!
SamSpade said:
When people marched against the war overseas, a great deal of the posters remarked on things that have nothing to do with Bush or the present administration. And almost to the last person, almost everyone I know from Latin America grew up despising the US.

General statements like this add nothing to any conversation. Could you provide details of the things that have nothing to do with Bush, or exactly why Latinos despise the US. Are you Latino or do you just have "friends"? Give some examples.

My point in this is that I too have travelled modestly in Asia, Europe, and Saudi Arabia. I can say that the people in the countries I visited didn't fall down at my feet in praise of my Nationality, but neither did they sneer and jeer at my presence. In fact, most ignored me just as I would be generally ignored here. Some were interested in my "Americanism", mostly the people I met in Spain and England. Not a one ever told me to "go home"!

The thing I did notice during my travels, however, is the prevalence of "Americana", things like 7-11s, McDonald's, hotel chains, clothing, movies, etc. The governments and radical groups within these countries may be opposed to the US, but the people are far from it. I think the hatred that countries apparently hold for the US is one of simple jealousy of our freedoms, because that's the thing they lack most of all.
 
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Oz

You're all F'in Mad...
jlabsher said:
Well, haven't been to Latin America since Grenada, but Asia, Europe & even parts of Africa & mideast were friendly as recently as 2000. But last year when in Asia I saw more shirts & bumper stickers with anti US stuff, like pix of Osama.

I NEVER remember seeing anything like that before (at least that widespread), and in talking to locals the main questions I am asked relate to our president's motivation & sanity instead of Michael Jordan & rap music.


Are these people upset that we knifed the terrorists infrastructure in the throat, or that we removed their sugar-daddy Saddam from his dictatorship?

:confused:
 

sleuth

Livin' Like Thanksgivin'
jlabsher said:
Hey 2A have you EVER been outside this country, wait have you ever left the COUNTY!?

I have lived outside this country for several years, visited several nations, and still do. Let me assure you before Bush went to Iraq there was no outright hate and envy of this nation. In fact there still isn't, there is, however a feeling of distrust for cowboy presidents. Maybe you don't remember, but after 9/11 there was a deep empathy and show of support for the USA, in fact Le Monde (Paris, France newspaper) declared on 9/12 "We Are All Americans". Then your boy screwed the pooch and soured the rest of the world on US foreign policy with his Iraq policy, which has given strength to terrorists.

Now you can go back to cleaning your guns and memorizing the good book.
Don't you worry about your pretty little head.

After we fix Iraq, they'll get over it just like they always have, and they'll have nothing to complain about except the fact that they got a McDonalds cropping up in their little African and European towns. :dork:

If it weren't for our very own media, they wouldn't be against us right now.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Steve said:
General statements like this add nothing to any conversation. Could you provide details of the things that have nothing to do with Bush, or exactly why Latinos despise the US. Are you Latino or do you just have "friends"? Give some examples..

Uhh, Steve - you KNOW me. No, not Latino. But for example, my family has hosted and assisted Latins leaving their countries to set up shop here. It's always been a source of irritation to me that once they're established, they immediately bad-mouth their new country, and forbid their children to celebrate American holidays.

Steve said:
The thing I did notice during my travels, however, is the prevalence of "Americana", things like 7-11s, McDonald's, hotel chains, clothing, movies, etc. The governments and radical groups within these countries may be opposed to the US, but the people are far from it. I think the hatred that countries apparently hold for the US is one of simple jealousy of our freedoms, because that's the thing they lack most of all.

This is what is meant by "cultural imperialism" - the invasion of other cultures by our own. Personally I think a lot of it is crap, but this is one of the top complaints I get continually. When people were protesting the war, McDonald's in some of these countries got trashed (even though they are staffed by their own people). There's this love/hate relationship where, they love our movies, but hate the fact that it's all American, they have American biases, and in some cases, re-written history that favors Americans. (e.g. U-571).

They hate that we're the only nation, more or less, that shows no interest in their favorite sport. That we don't learn their language, when many of them learn English in grade school. That they're inundated with CNN, MSNBC and even FOX News, and know all about the U.S. - but that Americans don't give a hoot about any of their nations. That our papers rarely cover news of importance to THEM, such as international sports coverage or even something like a national election.

Now, there's admittedly more to this than meets the eye. Some years back, one major news outlet - can't remember which - did an opinion poll around the world, among the youth. In many nations we consider our *friends* - like Taiwan, for example - the majority had very poor favorabilty ratings regarding the United States. NOT with regard to our policy - but towards the people themselves. The common complaint was that we were an immoral and violent people. The follow up questions were even more interesting - an overwhelming number of those with unfavorable views of the United States did not know any Americans, hadn't MET a single American before, nor had any contact with an American. Where did they get their point of view? Movies and TV. Yeah. They dislike Americans because they think that crap on TV is accurate depiction of American life - well, plus their own media coverage with attempts to corroborate that view.

Varaints of the cultural imperialism charge is that, economically, we're bullies. We have the money and power, and we shove our weight around. Our policies regarding trade with Cuba make a good example.

Now, I'm not against the U.S. - I believe it is the greatest nation to ever emerge on this planet (even though many of my foreign friends get p*ssed even at THAT view, as if they don't have similar nationalistic sentiments of their own). But I do believe that international anger has less to do with George Bush and more to do with "America". WE care if there's a Republican in the White House. They care about as much as WE care which party is in charge of THEIR country. People here don't dislike France JUST because of Chirac.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
jlabs right...

Bush has done more to alienate the rest of the world

A real President would have:

Joined the under the table dealings with Iraq. Our ally France could show us the ropes.

Built a bridge to Jerusalem so that Arafat and Co. wouldn't have to sneak under the fence to kill Jews.

Apologize for the first Gulf War and, as a gesture of good faith, give Kuwait back to Iraq, where it belongs.

Release Usef Ramsey and the other Freedom fighters who were wrongly imprisoned for the first accident at the World Trade Center.

Give Gitmo and the 'political' prisoners to Cuba.

Build a bridge to Mecca so we can all convert to Islam and start our pilgrimage.

Pay restitution to the families of the poor souls who died while trying to repaint the side of the USS Cole.

Remove our embassies from around the world or help blow them up.

Release Osama from the Lincoln Bedroom and give him back Afghanistan. And apologize for the inconvenience. Build him a nuclear weapons processing plant there as a show of good faith.

Build a bridge from Pyongyang to Seoul and hand over the keys to the toll booth...and apologize.

Build a bridge from Tehran to...Jerusalem.

And build a bridge OVER the WTC site so tall buildings never again get in the way of inexperienced foriegn exchange flight school students.

Oh yeah, and blow ourselves up at the gates of Halliburton to prove our worth.

Did I forget release Saddam? We put him in the Whitehouse, via a bridge, and Bush in a spider hole. And apologize.
 

Steve

Enjoying life!
SamSpade said:
Uhh, Steve - you KNOW me.
Yeah, I do. But I didn't know your latest screen name was you. I had to check with the expert. Too many people changing too often for this occassional browser to remember who is who! :biggrin:

This is what is meant by "cultural imperialism" - the invasion of other cultures by our own.

Do you think we should feel guilty because other nations' citizens embrace our culture? And just because they like our culture we as Americans are supposed to reciprocate and embrace theirs? Sorry, ain't going to happen. Ours is popular because it is the best! If some other culture was the best, we'd all be sticking spears through or lips and wearing plates in our ears, or something equally bizarre. They adopt our culture, we are not thrusting it on them! And while I am on this point, just about every culture in the world is represented here in the US by some holiday, at some event, by some tradition, by SOMEBODY!!! We merge all of these together here, all countries here. We are one country for them to culturally incorporate; ONE!!! Get over it.

They hate that we're the only nation, more or less, that shows no interest in their favorite sport. That we don't learn their language, when many of them learn English in grade school. That they're inundated with CNN, MSNBC and even FOX News, and know all about the U.S. - but that Americans don't give a hoot about any of their nations. That our papers rarely cover news of importance to THEM, such as international sports coverage or even something like a national election.

This smacks of international multi-culturalism BS. Forget it! If I want to learn Spanish, I'll learn Spanish. I certainly will not feel guilty for not doing so just because some Spaniard learns English. I am so sick of this mentality that we must somehow equalize the playing field and give everyone an equal chance. Screw that! Life is a competition, from birth til death. No one said it was supposed to be fair. And as I said before, their cultures are fully represented here. The major difference that builds resentment throughout the world is that their governments repress and control them, while ours allows us to be free to choose. And they don't know how to change that reality.

Now, I'm not against the U.S. - I believe it is the greatest nation to ever emerge on this planet (even though many of my foreign friends get p*ssed even at THAT view, as if they don't have similar nationalistic sentiments of their own).

Let them get pissed. If they think their country is the greatest, then let them stay there. I don't understand why people don't get that concept. You don't like it here in the US, don't come here! But no, they know we have it too good here, so they come for their piece or try to take ours away. :burning: And then you get the Americans who defend them and their beliefs. I would deport those people to France if I could!
 
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