Calvinism Agrees With Islam about Predestination

Starman3000m

New Member
Calvinists are in good company with Muslims in their view and concept of predestination of souls. While Islam preceded Calvinism by several hundred years and was revealed to Muhammad when he had an encounter with a "spirit-being" in a dark cave, both teach that people have no choice regarding where they will end up as their destiny has been pre-planned "by God" for either Heaven or Hell.

(excerpt from Starman's research of Islamic theology)

Predestination, in theological belief, means that God has already predetermined in advance which person will spend eternity in heaven and which person will spend eternity in hell. Islam is one such religious ideology that teaches predestination, while Christianity preaches that God gives all people the freedom to choose for themselves. Granted, there are some Christian dogmas that also lean toward predestination; however, the basis of such teaching is countered when one reads the complete message as presented in the Holy Bible.

What may be confused with predestination is God's Divine attribute of being All-Knowing (Omniscient). Therefore, although God desires all of mankind to be saved from the wrath to come, He actually knows which individual will choose to accept His plan of Salvation and which individual will choose to reject Him. This does not prevent God from continually offering each individual the opportunity to know of His existence. In the end, each person will not be able to say that they were not aware of the existence of God nor can they say that they had not been told of His plan. Basically, each person chooses to love God willingly and through his or her own personal decision. By the same token, one willfully chooses to reject God through one’s own personal decision of unbelief.

Islam is unique in the sense that the Qur'an teaches two thoughts about predestination. First, that Allah and an angel pre-plan the entire life of each individual Muslim at birth - whether they will be a denizen (resident) of paradise or a denizen of hell; and, second, that only faithful Muslims are destined to spend eternity in Paradise, including being a resident in one of the seven levels of heaven. As for Jews, Christians and all other non-Muslims, they will spend eternity in the fires of hell, according to Islamic theology.

Here are the accounts of predestination, as taught within Islam:

Allah permits some to believe in Islam and punishes the ones that he prohibits from being believers:

"Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth Allah (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe." (Qur'an: 006.125)
"Whom Allah doth guide, -he is on the right path: whom He rejects from His guidance,-such are the persons who perish." (Qur'an: 007.178)

Here is yet another example where Allah punishes unbelievers:

"And if any believe not in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!" (Qur'an: 048.013)

(Poor souls, they must be the ones that were already "predestined" not to be believers in the first place.)

Message of hope to Muslims: While Islam teaches that Allah selects who to accept and who to reject from his guidance, Christianity believes that God invites everyone to become a believer. It is therefore up to each person to decide whether to accept or reject God's call:

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)

If it is true that a person's eternal destiny has already been pre-determined from birth, then the Gospel Message of a loving and forgiving Creator, God, has just become null and void. In fact, how could God justify calling an individual to heed His message when it was God who created that individual to be doomed for hell, as would be the case in predestination? No problem for the individual that is already "predestined" to go to heaven. Apparently this individual is already in good-standing with a pre-printed ticket to paradise no matter what type of lifestyle he or she leads on earth! How unfortunate that many are taught this deceptive doctrine. In reality, predestination of one's soul would be the cruelest joke ever played on mankind by a sovereign and loving God. Any religion that teaches predestination of mankind and continues to claim that each individual does not have a "free-will" makes a liar out of the True God of Salvation.

In contrast to the Qur'an, the Holy Bible declares that all of mankind is already seen on a level playing field; each of us have fallen short of God's Glory and are in need of a Saviour:

First, the Bad News: "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Romans 3:23) "Wherefore, as by one man (Adam) sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned;" (Romans: 5:12)

Now, The Good News: "But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement."
(Romans: 5:8-11)

The Old Testament writings also indicate that all are given the option to choose his/her own destiny. God even makes a suggestion:

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live;" (Deuteronomy: 30:19)

Predestination
 
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Zguy28

New Member
They also agree that heaven and hell exist, that Abraham is the progenitor who received God's covenant, and of rewards in heaven. :cds: that must mean I'm really a Muslim! This is getting pathetic.
 

Starman3000m

New Member
They also agree that heaven and hell exist, that Abraham is the progenitor who received God's covenant, and of rewards in heaven. :cds: that must mean I'm really a Muslim! This is getting pathetic.

Islam also teaches that Abraham was a Muslim, Moses was Muslim, John the Baptist was Muslim, Jesus was a Muslim prophet, and that Muhammad's "prophethood" supersedes that of the New Testament Jesus.

I notice that Radiant1 likes your posted response. Not surprising since the Roman Catholic Cathechism teaches parishioners that Muslims and Catholics "together adore the same god."

:yikes: Looks like the "Calvinist Jesus," "RCC Jesus" and the "Muslim Jesus" are one and the same and definitely NOT the New Testament Jesus.
 

Zguy28

New Member
Islam also teaches that Abraham was a Muslim, Moses was Muslim, John the Baptist was Muslim, Jesus was a Muslim prophet, and that Muhammad's "prophethood" supersedes that of the New Testament Jesus.

I notice that Radiant1 likes your posted response. Not surprising since the Roman Catholic Cathechism teaches parishioners that Muslims and Catholics "together adore the same god."

:yikes: Looks like the "Calvinist Jesus," "RCC Jesus" and the "Muslim Jesus" are one and the same and definitely NOT the New Testament Jesus.
Looks like you have finally gone over the edge. :otter:
 

Starman3000m

New Member
Looks like you have finally gone over the edge. :otter:

No, I have been walking this "straight and narrow" path with the same message about The New Testament Jesus since day one. You should know that.

Actually, it is you, Zguy28, who has had a change in demeanor and are showing your true colors. It was okay to challenge others, like Mormons, RCC, Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims, etc., but the more that Calvinism is challenged "de-Meaner" you get! :coffee:
 

Zguy28

New Member
No, I have been walking this "straight and narrow" path with the same message about The New Testament Jesus since day one. You should know that.

Actually, it is you, Zguy28, who has had a change in demeanor and are showing your true colors. It was okay to challenge others but the more that Calvinism is challenged "de-Meaner" you get! :coffee:
I don't consider you a challenge.

But you are right, I have gotten a little "out of sorts". I'm sorry for that.

But I also got accused of heresy, and Calvinism continues to get misrepresented by YOU. You know, when you misrepresent people or beliefs like you have with Calvinism, that's a lie. Lying is a sin.

Not only that, but you continue to harangue me on the forum. Others have noticed it. Is that following the Golden Rule?
 

Starman3000m

New Member
I don't consider you a challenge.

But you are right, I have gotten a little "out of sorts". I'm sorry for that.

But I also got accused of heresy, and Calvinism continues to get misrepresented by YOU. You know, when you misrepresent people or beliefs like you have with Calvinism, that's a lie. Lying is a sin.

Not only that, but you continue to harangue me on the forum. Others have noticed it. Is that following the Golden Rule?

Oh, c'mon Zguy! If you consider my responses and challenges in these postings as "haranguing" you then you don't completely comprehend the responsibility that the Bible places on believers to admonish and correct those who are being led into misguided teachings.

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

(2 Timothy 4:1-3)

As far as "misrepresenting Calvinism" in which way have I misrepresented and lied about it? I have stated the truth of what Calvinism teaches. It's just that you are offended when the teaching you believe is challenged. No problem, that's human nature but I am sure you can agree on one thing that I have stated here many times before, and that is: There Is Only One Truth.

I believe that The New Testament Jesus Christ offers Salvation to anyone who will admit their sinfulness, repent and invite Him to be their personal Lord and Saviour for the Forgiveness of their sins. I believe the God of the Bible loves mankind enough to offer anyone Eternal Life if they will only turn from the love of the world and believe upon His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, as the Scriptures state.

That is in contrast to the teachings of John Calvin who taught that God has predestined only certain individuals to be able to respond to the Gospel Message for Salvation and has predestined the rest of mankind to not be able to respond and then He punishes them for it with eternal damnation. Yes, I disagree with Calvin, the man who persecuted and had people killed if they disagreed with "his" theology.

BTW: Apologies accepted Zguy. I too apologize and hope that we can keep future discussions and disagreements at the level of exchanging ideas and opinions without the personal attacks against one another.
 
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