CBS does it again

[tikipirate]

CBS Evening News just had an expose about the effectiveness of the 5.56x45mm ammunition that the M-16 rifle is chambered for. They were comparing it to the 7.62mm used in the AK-47.

CBS kept showing pictures of the 5.56mm ammo next to 7.62mm ammo. NOT the relatively puny 7.62x39mm used in the AK-47, but the full-sized 7.62x51mm round.

Liberal bias or garden-variety stupidity?

 

[Lugnut]

CBS Evening News just had an expose about the effectiveness of the 5.56x45mm ammunition that the M-16 rifle is chambered for. They were comparing it to the 7.62mm used in the AK-47.

CBS kept showing pictures of the 5.56mm ammo next to 7.62mm ammo. NOT the relatively puny 7.62x39mm used in the AK-47, but the full-sized 7.62x51mm round.

Liberal bias or garden-variety stupidity?

Liberal bias.

Even the most stupid of interns would turn up the correct information during routine research.

 

[AK-74me]

Here is the article with a 4 min video.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/06/cbsnews_investigates/main1688223.shtml

I am saving this for the next time I hear these liberal idiots describe the AR-15 as an high-powered assualt rifle.

And the reason they showed the 5.56 mm compared to the 7.62 NATO round is because they were comparing the AR-15/ M-16 to the M-14 not an AK-47.

M-14 is chambered for .308/7.62 NATO/ 7.62x51

 

[Steve]

So, I guess the 7.62-39 round is as bad as the 5.56-45 round at stopping power? It seems to me that the weaker round was chosen to paint a kindler, more gentler face on the American military 40 years ago. After all, blowing a head to pink spray is overkill, or so the libs would have you believe.

 

[AK-74me]

I just wanted to add...... I wonder what the so called "DC sniper" victims would have to say about this guy's analysis of the 5.56mm round.

 

[tikipirate]

This is the correct link to the story as broadcast:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/07/cbsnews_investigates/main1692346.shtml

I re-watched the video, and there was no mention or footage of the M-14. There was no footage of 7.62x39mm ammunition. The following was reported:

"To demonstrate to CBS News, Jones fired the larger-caliber 7.62 bullet fired by AK-47s used by insurgents in Iraq into a block of glycerin. The hole cavity is 50 percent or more larger than that of the 5.56. " At this point, some 'expert' shot a bolt-action rifle, and the camera panned over a collection of 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm ammunition stood on end.

The story definitely made it seem like the AK shot NATO rounds.

 

[kom526]

My pick is for stupidity with a liberal bias. :shrug: Size only matters when you put steel on target.

 

[Steve]

This is the correct link to the story as broadcast:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/07/cbsnews_investigates/main1692346.shtml

I re-watched the video, and there was no mention or footage of the M-14. There was no footage of 7.62x39mm ammunition. The following was reported:

"To demonstrate to CBS News, Jones fired the larger-caliber 7.62 bullet fired by AK-47s used by insurgents in Iraq into a block of glycerin. The hole cavity is 50 percent or more larger than that of the 5.56. " At this point, some 'expert' shot a bolt-action rifle, and the camera panned over a collection of 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm ammunition stood on end.

The story definitely made it seem like the AK shot NATO rounds.

Your quote was of the article. The video contained nothing of the test, just the former Marine's account of what happened during his tour. I'd like to see the video of the test. Maybe it's not publicly releasable.

 

[tikipirate]

Your quote was of the article. The video contained nothing of the test, just the former Marine's account of what happened during his tour. I'd like to see the video of the test. Maybe it's not publicly releasable.

The link I posted was to the actual segment as broadcast on TV. To the right of the transcript is the segment. What I quoted was from the transcript of the aired segment.

AK's link was to background information, and the full interview with the Marine.

 

[Larry Gude]

This may actually be a good thing...

CBS Evening News just had an expose about the effectiveness of the 5.56x45mm ammunition that the M-16 rifle is chambered for. They were comparing it to the 7.62mm used in the AK-47.

CBS kept showing pictures of the 5.56mm ammo next to 7.62mm ammo. NOT the relatively puny 7.62x39mm used in the AK-47, but the full-sized 7.62x51mm round.

Liberal bias or garden-variety stupidity?

...for our troops; the impassioning of public opinion that our guys are under gunned resulting in political pressure to support going to a new, larger caliber.

It has long been fact that the 9mm sucked compared to the tried and true .45 for sidearms. No one cares in peace time. Now that we're shooting people who need to be shot effectively, on a regular basis, the .45 is coming back.

Same thing with rifle cartridges. There is an ongoing search for mid size caliber between our tried and true .308 (m14) and the .223 (m16 round) because the .223 is not effective enough.

The .223 was pushed by McNamara back in the mid 1960's because the thinking was for a soldier to be able to carry more rounds if they are lighter coupled with the idea that an enemy wounded by the smaller, less damaging .223 would require two comrades to leave the fight to help their buddy to medical attention; a classic case of looking at the enemy through OUR paradigm. WRONG.

Well, what we know is that our enemies do not stop what they are doing to help a shot comrade. They keep fighting and the wounded man, who may soon die, will continue to fight, maybe killing you before he expires.

So, back to the tried and true idea of how to KILL your enemy, not just annoy him; stopping power.

 

[Larry Gude]

That doesn't matter...

I just wanted to add...... I wonder what the so called "DC sniper" victims would have to say about this guy's analysis of the 5.56mm round.

...in the case of sniping. When you get a clean shot, such as the DC guys, you can effectively kill and .223 is PLENTY. In battle when you don't always get a nice, clean, steady shot at the other guys head, size matters.

 

[AK-74me]

The link I posted was to the actual segment as broadcast on TV. To the right of the transcript is the segment. What I quoted was from the transcript of the aired segment.

AK's link was to background information, and the full interview with the Marine.

Yeah, I did not realize there were two videos dealing with similar topics, in the video link you posted they deffintley did compare the 5.56 to the 7.62 NATO as if though that is what the AK-47 fired. Right as they are saying "some soliders carry found AK's that fire the 7.62 round" the guy shooting the block of glycerine is clearing shooting a hunting rifle, most likely chambered in .308. If they were going to imply that the AK's round is so much better than the M-16's they should of had an actual AK there to shoot not a hunting rifle.

 

[AK-74me]

...in the case of sniping. When you get a clean shot, such as the DC guys, you can effectively kill and .223 is PLENTY. In battle when you don't always get a nice, clean, steady shot at the other guys head, size matters.

Ok, Larry I realize that, but did you not watch the video of the former Marine? He claims they shot a goat 15 times with a .223 round and finally after the 15th round the goat falls over. That is completely misleading and makes it seem like even with CLEAN, well placed shots the round is not any good.

 

[kom526]

Ok, Larry I realize that, but did you not watch the video of the former Marine? He claims they shot a goat 15 times with a .223 round and finally after the 15th round the goat falls over. That is completely misleading and makes it seem like even with CLEAN, well placed shots the round is not any good.

They shot the goat 15 times with FMJ. The round count would have been lower with HP.< Geneva Convention >

Does a hollow point round mushroom after impact in ballistic gel?

 

[itsbob]

They shot the goat 15 times with FMJ. The round count would have been lower with HP.< Geneva Convention >

Does a hollow point round mushroom after impact in ballistic gel?

Yes...

 

[Larry Gude]

No...

Ok, Larry I realize that, but did you not watch the video of the former Marine? He claims they shot a goat 15 times with a .223 round and finally after the 15th round the goat falls over. That is completely misleading and makes it seem like even with CLEAN, well placed shots the round is not any good.

...I'm totally biased against .223 as the standard infantry round. He could claim it won't stop flies and I wouldn't care. That's wrong of me to have that attitude because that attitude, not caring about the details, is what lead to .223 coming up anyway.

 

[AK-74me]

...I'm totally biased against .223 as the standard infantry round. He could claim it won't stop flies and I wouldn't care. That's wrong of me to have that attitude because that attitude, not caring about the details, is what lead to .223 coming up anyway.

Fine, but don't you see what this report is actually about?

The argument about 5.56mm VS. 7.62 is as old as the M-16's introduction. Why are they rehashing it?

This is not about our troops using an under powered, under sized round. If we switched and went back to M-14's and 7.62 NATO. 5 mins later CBS would be running a story about how our troops can't carry enough ammo because the round they are carrying is too big and heavy.

This is just a story, to take a shot at our Military, the war and as we all know, It's Bush's fault.

 

[itsbob]

Fine, but don't you see what this report is actually about?

The argument about 5.56mm VS. 7.62 is as old as the M-16's introduction. Why are they rehashing it?

This is not about our troops using an under powered, under sized round. If we switched and went back to M-14's and 7.62 NATO. 5 mins later CBS would be running a story about how our troops can't carry enough ammo because the round they are carrying is too big and heavy.

This is just a story, to take a shot at our Military, the war and as we all know, It's Bush's fault.

and the AK-74 is 5.45mm...

 

[AK-74me]

and the AK-74 is 5.45mm...

Yeah most people usually say, I think you mean AK-47, I just say, "o yeah thanks"

 

[Larry Gude]

My bad...

Fine, but don't you see what this report is actually about?

The argument about 5.56mm VS. 7.62 is as old as the M-16's introduction. Why are they rehashing it?

This is not about our troops using an under powered, under sized round. If we switched and went back to M-14's and 7.62 NATO. 5 mins later CBS would be running a story about how our troops can't carry enough ammo because the round they are carrying is too big and heavy.

This is just a story, to take a shot at our Military, the war and as we all know, It's Bush's fault.

...I assumed it was a hit piece on the military but I'm all for anything that exposes the .223 as undersized. It's cool with me if they say 'Bush sends troops off to die with bad bullets" if it gets us a bigger round. Kinda a getting caught in their own web thing.