Charles County Theology on Tap
- Thread starter onel0126
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Zguy28
New Member
Well, I guess that's better than supporting your Catholic schools through gambling.
onel0126
Bead mumbler
Number one, the cost for these talks is nothing. Number two, Christ didn't take his word just to the temples and holiest of places...Number three, still can't find the commandments of thou shall not play bingo or drink......The biggest mockery of the Eucharist to me is grape juice. I'd rather Protestant churches not offer "communion" at all--if wine was good enough for Christ why is it so taboo to you all? Christ's first public miracle was at the wedding.....I still don't know how one can take the Bible literally as so many say they do and ignore John 6 for what it commands us to do. I actually think kool aid in church pokes fingers in the eyes of Christ
Zguy28
New Member
I wasn't talking about bingo, I was talking about casino night for Mother Catherine or the church down the street from San Souci plaza.Number one, the cost for these talks is nothing. Number two, Christ didn't take his word just to the temples and holiest of places...Number three, still can't find the commandments of thou shall not play bingo or drink......The biggest mockery of the Eucharist to me is grape juice. I'd rather Protestant churches not offer "communion" at all--if wine was good enough for Christ why is it so taboo to you all? Christ's first public miracle was at the wedding.....I still don't know how one can take the Bible literally as so many say they do and ignore John 6 for what it commands us to do. I actually think kool aid in church pokes fingers in the eyes of Christ
I find no taboo with wine personally. But then again, I also think fundamentally that communion is symbolic "in memory of me" and that Christ's proclamation that his body is bread from heaven is clearly symbolic of embracing radical discipleship through true faith and thus having life imparted. Do you believe Christ is also literally the day of Saturday? I mean afterall, the scripture also says the Sabbath is a foreshadow of Christ just like the manna was.
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onel0126
Bead mumbler
I guess that i differentiate what was said about Christ (in your example lord of the sabbath form mark i think) and what we are told Christ himself said....Not sure the church would agree with me though......Ive seen bumper stickers saying "christ said, I believe it......" He was clear in John 6 about the bread of life in my opinion....
Zguy28
New Member
Actually I was pulling from Paul in Colossians 2.
It seems to me, but I could be wrong, that Scripture consistently gives a picture of Old Testament = physical foreshadowing/typology pointing to Christ, and the New Testament pointing to Christ through the spiritual, which is greater than the physical.
Just a few of the numerous examples in physical/spiritual format:
Manna (physical life)/Christ (spiritual & eternal life) - Exodus 16:35/John 6
Sabbath (physical rest from work)/Christ (spiritual & eternal rest from works-righteousness) - Exodus 20:8/Colossians 2:17
Moses lifting the snake (physical deliverance and life)/Christ (spiritual deliverance & life) - Numbers 21:9/John 3:14
Aaron (physical high priest offering atonement every year)/Christ (eternal high priest making atonement once for all souls) - Exodus 40:13/Hebrews 7-8
You can even apply it to how Christ handles the Law. In the OT the Ten Commandments were rules that you lived or died by physically. They were outwardly applied. In the Sermon on the Mount Christ teaches that it starts with the spirit, which then works out through actions. The application of the law is inward to the spirit. This is taught also by Paul in Romans 13:3 - "Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law."
And one last thing, when you read this in light of your application of the Eucharist...
Colossians 2:6-12
6 Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Do you also believe that:
You physically walk in Christ somehow?
You are physically rooted in him? (Would that make you a tree?)
Is your body literally filled with him physically?
Were you literally buried in the ground like Christ, in your baptism?
Or circumcised physically in Christ?
The answer is obviously no. Why? Because of faith.
onel0126
Bead mumbler
I'm not talking about the epistles. I understand and for the most part agree with you assertion of ot foreshadowing of nt events. I was simply stating, right or wrong, church's consent or not, I tend to differentiate between Paul's writings, etc., and the gospels stating, and then Jesus said.....I place these quotes if you will higher in the hierarchy of scripture (again, right or wrong)
Zguy28
New Member
I see what you mean, but don't agree though. Same Holy Spirit through and through.
onel0126
Bead mumbler
Fair enough, and I may be teetering on heresy, but I know most Christians are a little less confident if you will in some books of the Bible than others; and I'm not talking about the apocrypha. If you are honest, you'd agree....I see what you mean, but don't agree though. Same Holy Spirit through and through.
That being said, since you say John 6 is not to be taken literally, I'd love to hear what you do with Revelation..
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How cool! Hang out, eat and drink, and get a service and fellowship with other Christians. I think it's a great idea!
Zguy28
New Member
Some are, especially liberal members amongst some "mainline" Protestant churches. A lot would probably side with Bart Erhman or the Jesus Seminar (
)before they would Christian scholars who believe in inerrancy and inspiration. Notable would be 2 Peter or the aforementioned Gospel of John.I don't think you would find much doubt though amongst me or my evangelical brethren such as Southern Baptists and Presbyterians (PCA or OPC).
Just to clarify, I don't take Jesus's reference to bread to mean His physical presence in the wafer AKA Transubstantiation. I believe He literally is the "bread that came down from heaven" that gives eternal life. But "bread" is used by Him as a play on the Manna narrative, to demonstrate mainly the all consuming nature of discipleship (as if He is our very food). I think of it similar to how we say a rabid fan "eats, drinks, and breathes football". Except that it doesn't even come close...in fact its quite crude, but it makes the point I think. Being a disciple of Christ is a similar mindset taken to the nth degree and total dependence of what Christ did on the cross where He sacrificed His FLESH. The fan doesn't literally eat the game, just as we don't literally eat Jesus actual flesh (isn't that cannibalism of some degree?). We "eat" of the sacrifice. Its our only true sustenance. Jesus also uses similar imagery and symbolism in the beatitudes. Do we also literally eat and drink righteousness in solid or liquid form?
It also demonstrates the superiority of the New Covenant over the Old. The new in Christ give everlasting life and sufficiency, while the old was only temporary and Israel became hungry again and was not satisfied.
As for Revelation, let's just say that I am not into "Left Behind" or any of that other related pop eschatology and am probably closer to what your views probably are than you thought.
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kom526
They call me ... Sarcasmo
They do this at DB MacMillan's too. I can't remember which nights though, maybe Tuesdays.
onel0126
Bead mumbler
some are, especially liberal members amongst some "mainline" protestant churches. A lot would probably side with bart erhman or the jesus seminar (
Zguy28
New Member
Or maybe Jesus preferred metaphors over similes?
onel0126
Bead mumbler
January's Theology on Tap will be held Wednesday January 15 at the Greene Turtle in La Plata. Happy Hour/fellowship begins at 6pm followed by the talk "Who is a Human Being?" at 7pm. The talk will be given by Fr. Greg Coan, Pastor of Holy Ghost Parish. This is a pro-life event in preparation for the annual Rally for Life in Washington, DC. All ages and faith backgrounds invited.