Cheating liars or lying cheaters?

[Blister]

Some poor dumb ball boy will probably get the blame.

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/01/21/nfl-investigation-into-deflated-footballs-ongoing/21132692/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl9%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D601905

 

[vraiblonde]

Belichick fires ball boy for failing to deflate 1 of 12 balls

 

[catlingirl]

Um ok stupid question I know but how did they get away with it if the refs handle the ball? I mean they do dont they?

 

[kom526]

They should have had some hookers out there on the sideline. They handle balls every day. Right?

 

[mamatutu]

Whether it is true or not. Why should we be surprised that America's beloved past time whether it be football or baseball becomes tainted. There is nothing pure about America, anymore. Sad, really. High powered politicians, sports conglomerates, corporations, etc. will always cheat and use their power to get their way. And, there is always conveniently some plebe to throw under the bus.

How would football inflation/deflation have changed the game anyway? The score was a stomper (attributed to running more than catching). Another good lesson to send to our young people. Not. All I can hear is WHAAAAAAAA! What a bunch of 'bawl' babies.

 

[Bay_Kat]

And the jokes have started....

 

[glhs837]

Cheaters, or did they take advantage of a hole in the rules? Does the rule state the balls have to be at that pressure at ambient on the field during the game? Or can I fill them the day before in a 70 degree room? If I do that, and it's 50 degrees on the field, that would give me a two psi drop right there. I saw one report that two teams were warned during games not to heat balls up on the sidelines, which would of course make them harder. So, why wasnt NE warned?

 

[Blister]

Cheaters, or did they take advantage of a hole in the rules? Does the rule state the balls have to be at that pressure at ambient on the field during the game? Or can I fill them the day before in a 70 degree room? If I do that, and it's 50 degrees on the field, that would give me a two psi drop right there. I saw one report that two teams were warned during games not to heat balls up on the sidelines, which would of course make them harder. So, why wasnt NE warned?

According to some smart guy from the New England Institute of Technology you would only drop 0.5 psi. And then there is the magic 12th ball that stayed inflated within specs. I guess someone was sitting on that one to keep it warm.

http://www.turnto10.com/story/27908184/science-behind-patriots-inflation-investigation

 

[Larry Gude]

Whether it is true or not. Why should we be surprised that America's beloved past time whether it be football or baseball becomes tainted. There is nothing pure about America, anymore. :

Why do you do this??? I mean, seriously. I think you mean well but, you say the most naive things sometimes...

I don't even know where to begin...The Black Sox scandal in 1919? Charlie Hustle? The Celtics in the 1960's? Most any pitcher, ever? Ty Cobb?

 

[Blister]

That ball boy/equipment manager is "toast."

 

[glhs837]

According to some smart guy from the New England Institute of Technology you would only drop 0.5 psi. And then there is the magic 12th ball that stayed inflated within specs. I guess someone was sitting on that one to keep it warm.

http://www.turnto10.com/story/27908184/science-behind-patriots-inflation-investigation

Note it's not the smart guy that says that about .5, it's not attributed to him, so it's the reporter, who I'll not is NOT a member of the Institute Looking around, you can find all sorts of numbers, but 1 psi per 10 degrees is the usually accepted norm in the automotive world, one of the few places where people care about this sort of thing. I can see this in my cold tire pressure numbers all the time.

 

[Blister]

More smart guys that agree with me.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/science-is-all-like-ooh-ooh-we-can-explain-deflate-gate-with-our-magic/

 

[stgislander]

Note it's not the smart guy that says that about .5, it's not attributed to him, so it's the reporter, who I'll not is NOT a member of the Institute Looking around, you can find all sorts of numbers, but 1 psi per 10 degrees is the usually accepted norm in the automotive world, one of the few places where people care about this sort of thing. I can see this in my cold tire pressure numbers all the time.

I watch a meteorologist on the Weather Channel work the equation the other morning. (One of their real meteorologist and not a "bubble-headed bleach blonde") The worst case he came up with was 0.5 psi based on the conditions before, during, and after the game.

 

[Ken King]

There could be a multitude of factors that resulted in the pressure being low. Here is a fairly nerdy piece that covers a lot of it. http://www.redorbit.com/news/techno...e-012115ive-retort-to-nfl-deflategate-012115/ The conclusion is "So if you factor in temperature changes, device accuracy, measurement techniques, and interpretation by the reader, a variance of 2 pounds becomes infinitely more plausible."

 

[BadGirl]

Ok, I don't care about football in the least, so I have no dog in this fight.

But, if both teams are playing with the same under-inflated football, then what is the big deal? It'd only be an issue if only ONE team was playing with the lower-psi football, right?

 

[Tilted]

Ok, I don't care about football in the least, so I have no dog in this fight.

But, if both teams are playing with the same under-inflated football, then what is the big deal? It'd only be an issue if only ONE team was playing with the lower-psi football, right?

Different quarterbacks likely have different preferences for how inflated the ball is, e.g. depending on how big their hands are. More importantly though, I believe each team's offense uses the balls their team provides. So Indianapolis wouldn't have been using the same balls that New England was using, i.e. the under-inflated ones.

 

[Ken King]

Different quarterbacks likely have different preferences for how inflated the ball is, e.g. depending on how big their hands are. More importantly though, I believe each team's offense uses the balls their team provides. So Indianapolis wouldn't have been using the same balls that New England was using, i.e. the under-inflated ones.

But weren't those UI balls removed by half-time and then look what NE did.

 

[Tilted]

Cheaters, or did they take advantage of a hole in the rules? Does the rule state the balls have to be at that pressure at ambient on the field during the game? Or can I fill them the day before in a 70 degree room? If I do that, and it's 50 degrees on the field, that would give me a two psi drop right there. I saw one report that two teams were warned during games not to heat balls up on the sidelines, which would of course make them harder. So, why wasnt NE warned?

Note it's not the smart guy that says that about .5, it's not attributed to him, so it's the reporter, who I'll not is NOT a member of the Institute Looking around, you can find all sorts of numbers, but 1 psi per 10 degrees is the usually accepted norm in the automotive world, one of the few places where people care about this sort of thing. I can see this in my cold tire pressure numbers all the time.

I believe the balls are supposed to be inspected before the game to make sure they meet the requirements.

As for the change in pressure that occurs as a result of a change in temperature, it depends on the beginning pressure and temperature. The ideal gas law tells us that, for a constant mass (of the gas) and volume, the ratio of the pressure and absolute temperature remains constant. So a 10 degree change in temperature for vessel-contained gas at 100 psi would result in a greater psi change than it would for gas at 10 psi. It's percent change in temp versus percent change in pressure. And we're talking absolute temperature, so Kelvin.

So, for an idea of the effect...

Let's say we go from 50 F to 30 F, that's 283.15 K to 272.039 K. If the starting pressure was the minimum of 12.5 psi, that gives us:

12.5 psi / 283.15 K = x / 272.039 K;
x = 272.039 K * (12.5 psi / 283.15 K);
x = 12.01 psi

That 20 degree drop in temperature (F) should cause about a half pound drop in pressure. The ideal gas law isn't perfectly applicable, but at these reasonable temperatures and pressures it's pretty accurate.

 

[Tilted]

But weren't those UI balls removed by half-time and then look what NE did.

Sure. I think it's fair to say that the pressure of the balls did not, in this game, end up making the difference.

I was answering the question of why it mattered (or could have mattered), responding to the notion that both teams use the same balls - they typically don't, not in the regular offense-defense game anyway.

And I'd say, it shouldn't much matter whether the cheating (if there indeed was some) ended up being needed. That's something we (and the cheater) doesn't know until after the fact. It should be punished - whatever punishment is appropriate, if punishment is appropriate at all - the same regardless. Speaking of cheating generically, it could have made a difference (and perhaps it did in other cases when it wasn't caught), thus it needs to be punished in order to discourage it to some extent.

 

[BadGirl]

Different quarterbacks likely have different preferences for how inflated the ball is, e.g. depending on how big their hands are. More importantly though, I believe each team's offense uses the balls their team provides. So Indianapolis wouldn't have been using the same balls that New England was using, i.e. the under-inflated ones.

Gotcha.

I appreciate the explanation. Ok, I still don't like football, but I thank you for, at least, explaining why people are up in arms over this event.