Christian Counseling

[StoneThrower]

I am reading a book by J Adams "Competent to Counsel"

The question is it right for a pastor not to counsel and farm his people out, even if its Biblical Counseling which can still be Rogerian, or integrated?

Is it right for a pastor to shirk his duty to his flock by hiring a hired gun on staff?

Is anyone more competent than a pastor, who knows the word of God?

J Adams brought up a great point, that a Pastor can stand up on a Sunday morning and speak on the authority of the word of God, but when it comes to counseling, all of a sudden become neutral on sin, in an attempt not be confrontational or have an opinion.

Johnny Hunt said that a Shepard that knows his flock, could be blindfolded and feel a persons face and tell you who it is.

So what are your thoughts, is counseling a primary duty of your pastor?

Do you feel that your pastor would be qualified?

Lastly are most issues encountered by any Psychologist or Psychiatrist, sin issues?

 

[PsyOps]

I was involved in a Christian group several years ago. During that time I got married to a girl who was - I will say - a fledging Christian and still finding her way through so many fundamental ideal. We went to a couples gathering and they go to the part where we went around the room and each person would pray for someone or something in need. When it became my wife’s turn she wasn’t comfortable and decided not to pray out loud. There was a long silence with everyone waiting for her to pray. Everyone was staring at her waiting. She simply looked up and said “not tonight please”. Later the leader of the group pulled me into his office to ‘counsel’ me on taking control as the head of the household to work with my wife on how to pray. I asked him what he meant by ‘how to pray’. He told me that we should all be comfortable pray with and for each other as brothers and sisters. There is criticism, shame or embarrassment. I asked him for his bible and turned to Matthew 6 and read him this:

“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” – Mathew 6:5-6

He was insistent that we pray with each other out loud, and threw a couple of bible verses at me (which I don’t remember now). I told him I was not going to force my wife to do what she was uncomfortable with and there was no REQUIREMENT to pray out loud with each other. If you chose to that’s fine, if you don’t that’s fine too. God hears us and knows our needs and wishes. He stated that my refusal to recognize what he was saying puts my faith into question. I told him that God doesn’t reveal this to me; and I left and never went back to that group again. It was that one single incident that turned my wife away. I knew what was best for her and knew how to gently approach her walk with her. This person – who was an ordained minister – presumed to believe he knew what was best for our situation. Rather than try to listen he wanted to preach, direct, and judge.

And for the sake of who this person is in his counseling skills, later I learned that one of his sons became a drug addict, landed trouble with the law and ultimately in jail. Although ministers and church/group leaders have a role in providing counseling often they approach things from a very narrow and dogmatic frame of mind. Often they aim to correct and help others while their own lives are in chaos and failing. We’ve seen it over and over. We have to be educated as individuals so when your church leader is providing counseling you have the resources to validate what they are counseling you on. They should be receptive to any feedback you give and not attempt to put up a wall between you and God. Once this happens everything they do must be questioned.

 

[Railroad]

I am reading a book by J Adams "Competent to Counsel"

The question is it right for a pastor not to counsel and farm his people out, even if its Biblical Counseling which can still be Rogerian, or integrated?

Is it right for a pastor to shirk his duty to his flock by hiring a hired gun on staff?

Is anyone more competent than a pastor, who knows the word of God?

J Adams brought up a great point, that a Pastor can stand up on a Sunday morning and speak on the authority of the word of God, but when it comes to counseling, all of a sudden become neutral on sin, in an attempt not be confrontational or have an opinion.

Johnny Hunt said that a Shepard that knows his flock, could be blindfolded and feel a persons face and tell you who it is.

So what are your thoughts, is counseling a primary duty of your pastor?

Do you feel that your pastor would be qualified?

Lastly are most issues encountered by any Psychologist or Psychiatrist, sin issues?

Sometimes I'm the right person to do the counseling, and sometimes not. It depends on the situation. I have to be honest with myself and know my limitations, and do whatever it takes to get the best care for the person in need - whether a member of my fellowship or not. If someone comes to me for help, I'll do my best to get help for that person, from any of the available resources, firstly and most importantly prayer.

Avoiding confrontation but telling the truth involves very clearly saying, "This is what the Bible says about that..."

The issues seen by Psychiatrists and Psychologists may include symptoms involving sinful behavior. Be careful to separate the cause (an underlying condition or situation) from the effect (sinful behavior) as you consider that.

 

[Railroad]

Although ministers and church/group leaders have a role in providing counseling often they approach things from a very narrow and dogmatic frame of mind. Often they aim to correct and help others while their own lives are in chaos and failing. We’ve seen it over and over. We have to be educated as individuals so when your church leader is providing counseling you have the resources to validate what they are counseling you on. They should be receptive to any feedback you give and not attempt to put up a wall between you and God. Once this happens everything they do must be questioned.

The narrow and dogmatic approach is what has taken me out of denominational Christianity and caused me to be Independent Christian.

I have my faults - I'm human just like everybody else. I make the same mistakes, have the same weaknesses, and am guilty of the same behaviors I counsel against. I make sure that I make it abundantly clear that I'm as fallible as the next guy. I refer to myself as a cracked and filthy vessel sometimes when I'm delivering the Message. But I'm a FORGIVEN sinner.

You can answer all the questions right on the test and still get it woefully wrong in practice.

Pastors are no less sinful than their flocks, and some of them need to get over themselves and admit it. "There is One who is good," as the Bible says. Some of the greatest (in our estimation) pastors have the same family dysfunctions as everyone else. Charles Stanley, for example, is divorced.

One very important point that should be remembered always: the very best counselor, the only PERFECT counselor, is Christ the Lord, who is "...called wonderful, counselor..."

 

[Railroad]

By the way, Mr. Johnny Hunt must be very gifted indeed. I don't know of anyone who has his ability to identify people by feeling their faces.

 

[StoneThrower]

I was involved in a Christian group several years ago. During that time I got married to a girl who was - I will say - a fledging Christian and still finding her way through so many fundamental ideal. We went to a couples gathering and they go to the part where we went around the room and each person would pray for someone or something in need. When it became my wife’s turn she wasn’t comfortable and decided not to pray out loud. There was a long silence with everyone waiting for her to pray. Everyone was staring at her waiting. She simply looked up and said “not tonight please”. Later the leader of the group pulled me into his office to ‘counsel’ me on taking control as the head of the household to work with my wife on how to pray. I asked him what he meant by ‘how to pray’. He told me that we should all be comfortable pray with and for each other as brothers and sisters. There is criticism, shame or embarrassment. I asked him for his bible and turned to Matthew 6 and read him this:



He was insistent that we pray with each other out loud, and threw a couple of bible verses at me (which I don’t remember now). I told him I was not going to force my wife to do what she was uncomfortable with and there was no REQUIREMENT to pray out loud with each other. If you chose to that’s fine, if you don’t that’s fine too. God hears us and knows our needs and wishes. He stated that my refusal to recognize what he was saying puts my faith into question. I told him that God dozen’t reveal this to me; and I left and never went back to that group again. It was that one single incident that turned my wife away. I knew what was best for her and knew how to gently approach her walk with her. This person – who was an ordained minister – presumed to believe he knew what was best for our situation. Rather than try to listen he wanted to preach, direct, and judge.

And for the sake of who this person is in his counseling skills, later I learned that one of his sons became a drug addict, landed trouble with the law and ultimately in jail. Although ministers and church/group leaders have a role in providing counseling often they approach things from a very narrow and dogmatic frame of mind. Often they aim to correct and help others while their own lives are in chaos and failing. We’ve seen it over and over. We have to be educated as individuals so when your church leader is providing counseling you have the resources to validate what they are counseling you on. They should be receptive to any feedback you give and not attempt to put up a wall between you and God. Once this happens everything they do must be questioned.

I don't pray during round robins myself, Its not that I am uncomfortable, but typically the first person to pray, takes the whole amount of time allotted for everyone and prays for everything imaginable. If I feel like I want to I will, but I am not compelled to do so just because everyone else does. Now I never get asked to lead off or close in prayer at events because of this. I made it quite clear I have no problem praying and would be more than willing. I just dont feel I need to do it just because everyone else may.

 

[StoneThrower]

By the way, Mr. Johnny Hunt must be very gifted indeed. I don't know of anyone who has his ability to identify people by feeling their faces.

Actually after saying that he said they the person he was quoting must be from a smaller congreatation, as he's getting close to 15,000 people attending on Sunday mornings in their three services.

<http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/first-baptist-church-woodstock/id418596094>

 

[Railroad]

Actually after saying that he said they the person he was quoting must be from a smaller congreatation, as he's getting close to 15,000 people attending on Sunday mornings in their three services.

<http: itunes.apple.com="" us="" podcast="" first-baptist-church-woodstock="" id418596094="">

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[VoteJP]

Hi.

Is anyone more competent than a pastor, who knows the word of God?

So what are your thoughts, is counseling a primary duty of your pastor?

Do you feel that your pastor would be qualified?

Lastly are most issues encountered by any Psychologist or Psychiatrist, sin issues?

I would say in some cases and maybe in many cases then a Psychologist or Psychiatrist would be better than a Pastor.

You surely do not want to define psychological defects as a sin.

Mental illness is not a sin, and even being possessed by a Demon is not a sin, and if a Psychologist or Psychiatrist can cure or treat the person then that would be a great assistance to the Pastor.

I say we need to see many issues as being a spiritual problem and not as a sin.

 

[Cheeky1]

I am reading a book by J Adams "Competent to Counsel"

The question is it right for a pastor not to counsel and farm his people out, even if its Biblical Counseling which can still be Rogerian, or integrated?

Is it right for a pastor to shirk his duty to his flock by hiring a hired gun on staff?

Is anyone more competent than a pastor, who knows the word of God?

J Adams brought up a great point, that a Pastor can stand up on a Sunday morning and speak on the authority of the word of God, but when it comes to counseling, all of a sudden become neutral on sin, in an attempt not be confrontational or have an opinion.

Johnny Hunt said that a Shepard that knows his flock, could be blindfolded and feel a persons face and tell you who it is.

So what are your thoughts, is counseling a primary duty of your pastor?

Do you feel that your pastor would be qualified?

Lastly are most issues encountered by any Psychologist or Psychiatrist, sin issues?

Depends upon the person. Depends upon the pastor.

However, I believe the 'call-it-as-I-see-it' approach is the best any pastor can do. If a person is in dire need of more than that, then in my opinion, the pastor should inform the 2nd party of other options in order to seek assistance in the long term.

Anyone know of a good Christian pastor in the somd area?

 

[Railroad]

Depends upon the person. Depends upon the pastor.

However, I believe the 'call-it-as-I-see-it' approach is the best any pastor can do. If a person is in dire need of more than that, then in my opinion, the pastor should inform the 2nd party of other options in order to seek assistance in the long term.

Anyone know of a good Christian pastor in the somd area?

There are lots of very skilled, Spirit-filled pastors. So you should maybe be a little more specific as to what you're looking for in terms of characteristics. I only know a few (a VERY few) but the church often reflects the personality of the pastor (almost always, I think). What are you looking for?

 

[Zguy28]

There are two counseling groups in the SOMD area that I know of.

Centerpoint - counselors are Christians who also use modern psychology.

Hindsight - nouthetic counseling (Bible first)

I believe a pastor should always meet with those who need counsel at least once, first to establish what is happening. If he feels they would be better served by others, then I see no problem "farming them out" as the OP put it.

If done for the right motive, it demonstrates that the pastor is humble and caring. If for the wrong motive, he's lazy. Or perhaps he's just over-burdened like way too many pastors are.