Christians, growing in faith

[digitallest]

I recall when I was a child, learning about the religion of my family, it seemed as if they were teaching me that as long as I believed Jesus was born of a virgin, performed miracles, and died to pay for my sins, I would be forgiven for all my sins. I had questions, this doctrine did not make sense, I had questions, like, if God is perfect, and He made me, then how could I be bad? That was what I needed faith for, they said to believe what makes no sense.

Throughout my life, the dogma followed the same path, Jesuses birth and death and miracles were the ticket to not being accountable.

then I read the gospels, why would the perfect messenger of God spend His entire life exhorting people to turn away from the ways of hate, and to be kind to all living creatures, if we did not need to turn away from sin, to change our hearts, to care?

I have grown up to believe that real faith in a messenger from God is to believe His message. Real faith in a teacher requires belief in His teachings. So much so that I would want to change how I live, to abide by the truths I believe he taught.

in first John 4:7&8, it says God is Love. The living, eternal God, the author of life, is Love.

Since reading that one passage, with an open heart, I have regretted every hateful thing I have ever done, every little cruelty, or mean thing, I do not want to harbor hate in my heart. At that point, I knew the meaning of faith without works, being dead. Believing Jesus walked the Earth for divine reasons was one form of faith, the dead one. Dearly wanting to please Love, in everything I do, and cringing over my own acts of thoughtlessness, or mean spirited words, that faith lives inside of me. I realized that, if God is love, then hate is the deceiver, and not an energy I want infusing my spirit.

I wondered if anyone else had a similar journey, from focusing on His birth and death, to focusing on His life, and His teachings. He is so much more than a traveling magic show, and get out of trouble free card. Have a great life, all, may love live inside you.

 

[b23hqb]

1 John - yeah, buddy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bbKRBTggo4

 

[digitallest]

I love that verse. From a particle physics standpoint, it makes sense. It made sense of everything I needed to know. Anything that does not line up with love, is not even a question in my mind.

Honestly, since that accident on July 4th, I do not have any doubts, or questions.

 

[ProximaCentauri]

Since reading that one passage, with an open heart, I have regretted every hateful thing I have ever done, every little cruelty, or mean thing, I do not want to harbor hate in my heart. At that point, I knew the meaning of faith without works, being dead. Believing Jesus walked the Earth for divine reasons was one form of faith, the dead one. Dearly wanting to please Love, in everything I do, and cringing over my own acts of thoughtlessness, or mean spirited words, that faith lives inside of me. I realized that, if God is love, then hate is the deceiver, and not an energy I want infusing my spirit.

Christianity does not encompass the exclusive path to genuine human love and compassion. And as I'm sure you're aware, millions upon millions have been slaughtered in the name of Jehovah.

I wondered if anyone else had a similar journey, from focusing on His birth and death, to focusing on His life, and His teachings. He is so much more than a traveling magic show, and get out of trouble free card. Have a great life, all, may love live inside you.

How do you reconcile a teaching that says accept me as 'the way, the truth, and the life' or you will suffer eternal torment in hell? How does that make sense to you from the perspective of 'Love'?

 

[Chuckt]

Christianity does not encompass the exclusive path to genuine human love and compassion. And as I'm sure you're aware, millions upon millions have been slaughtered in the name of Jehovah.

You're argument won't mean anything when I'm living eternally for eternity.

 

[Chuckt]

How do you reconcile a teaching that says accept me as 'the way, the truth, and the life' or you will suffer eternal torment in hell? How does that make sense to you from the perspective of 'Love'?

Because you have to be selfish to reject love and God lets you judge yourself when you judge Him.
God is in control of the whole universe so who are you to tell Him that you know better?

 

[b23hqb]

Christianity does not encompass the exclusive path to genuine human love and compassion. And as I'm sure you're aware, millions upon millions have been slaughtered in the name of Jehovah.



How do you reconcile a teaching that says accept me as 'the way, the truth, and the life' or you will suffer eternal torment in hell? How does that make sense to you from the perspective of 'Love'?

In the perspective of "Love" it's what it is all about - "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

That's love, pc. You have the free will to either accept or deny that love.

You simply reconcile it by acknowledging the creator of the universe s the God He is, that he laid the foundation of eternity and the requirements that go along with it, that we all have a choice in our destination no matter how much you try to think through it and not be able to grasp the simplicity of His argument of His way only, and make your choice.

Really simple. Broken down to what even super intelligent, brilliant minds can comprehend, but sadly, many will chose to reject it simply because they don't want to believe it because eternal salvation cannot be as simple of placing your faith IN God.

I hope you can reconcile that in your mind and heart before your last chance passes. There will be no appeals, re-trials, do overs, etc.

Believers will be with the Father, and won't have to deal with any of the sad aftereffects.

 

[digitallest]

I do not reconcile it, because the teaching is not true to my belief. It is the choice of a human to be of love, or of hate. I believe in free will, I also believe people began to twist the message shortly after Jesus died. I read the gnostic texts, too, in it Jesus said as much, that people would quickly be fed lies. He also said what you just said, that, even if you never heard the name Jesus, or the message that God is love, if you know love, you are known by love. I am not a blind follower of other people, because people become greedy, prideful lustful, lazy, gluttonous, dishonest...they deceive and mislead others to glorify themselves. I read, and decide for myself, what feels true.

I learned a lot from Mohandas Ghandi, and Kahlil Gibran.

 

[ProximaCentauri]

I do not reconcile it, because the teaching is not true to my belief. It is the choice of a human to be of love, or of hate. I believe in free will, I also believe people began to twist the message shortly after Jesus died. I read the gnostic texts, too, in it Jesus said as much, that people would quickly be fed lies. He also said what you just said, that, even if you never heard the name Jesus, or the message that God is love, if you know love, you are known by love. I am not a blind follower of other people, because people become greedy, prideful lustful, lazy, gluttonous, dishonest...they deceive and mislead others to glorify themselves. I read, and decide for myself, what feels true.

I learned a lot from Mohandas Ghandi, and Kahlil Gibran.

It appears you have developed your own personalized brand of what I would refer to as 'Contemporary Christianity'. Not something I would consider personally, but in my view infinitely better than a fundamentalist perspective. I like what you had to say with regard being open to the wisdom of other 'teachers' outside of the realm of Christianity.

Here's a quote on love and compassion you might like...
“We can reject everything else: religion, ideology, all received wisdom. But we cannot escape the necessity of love and compassion. This, then, is my true religion, my simple faith. In this sense, there is no need for temple or church, for mosque or synagogue, no need for complicated philosophy, doctrine or dogma. Our own heart, our own mind, is the temple. The doctrine is compassion." -Dalai Lama XIV

 

[ProximaCentauri]

In the perspective of "Love" it's what it is all about - "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

That's love, pc. You have the free will to either accept or deny that love.

That's the "free will" condition of a controlling psychopath. Accept me/worship me or burn for all eternity. Similar to Kim Jong-un who grants you the "free will" to vote for him. If you don't you end up in a labor camp. But at least you can escape this earthly psychopath via death. Your supernatural psychopath will torture you for all eternity upon your death.

 

[ProximaCentauri]

You're argument won't mean anything when I'm living eternally for eternity.

You make me laugh chuckt. But enjoy your 'time' in a celestial version of North Korea.

 

[Chuckt]

You make me laugh chuckt. But enjoy your 'time' in a celestial version of North Korea.

I bet you are better than those people who slaughtered other people in the name of religion.
You probably sin only once a day and that is better than all of that. You're pretty good at that. Sinning once a day isn't bad. Right?
365 days times 70 years = 25,550 sins.

Your 25,550 sins means that you're pretty good, right? You should go to heaven and the slaughterer should go to hell, right?
And you sin more than once a day.

God came to save those who want to be fixed and your argument means you want to stay unfixed.
Enjoy your life.

 

[digitallest]

Check out the large hadron collider project, the results they show regarding protons and neutrons. Think about it, energy is not destroyed. Our feelings, those silly things dismissed by most people are both chemical, and energetic. This part of us which is not destroyed, but which is regarded as "less real" by the deceived, who are many, many, many in our society, how we feel, how we want to make others feel, the energies we feed, these things make who we are. These are our everlasting selves, or at least part of our eternal self. when our bodies are dead, our energy remains, not destroyed, but quite possibly changed.

in the universe, beyond the physical, what still exists of us is plainly perceptible to others who do not require biological senses to perceive, and for whom time does not really apply. The suffering of being stuck inside a giant rock with a molten core is not that of nerves and flesh, but that frustrated, powerless feeling, and the knowledge that you were tricked into giving your gift of life to hate, traded the ability to fly for the inevitabile sinking. Time is physical, gravity is disrupted on a long time line that frees energies pulled in is how I see it, but I am just one in a world full of people with views on spirituality.

My sense is, one man told the truth so plainly, that if we exude kindness and compassion, our energy will be able to go on from this place, to perceive and experience the endless expanse of the universe. If you make your energy dark, angry, and hateful, when you no longer are tethered to your matter self, no longer drowned out by your meat brain, your energy will perceive gravity bearing on that heavy negative energy that you made of yourself.

the whole control freak thing, that is people, getting high off the power they feel like they have over people. Those people have been persuaded by deceitful energy, that voice in the back of their mind that says "these idiots will do whatever I tell them to do" without regard for how their misleading causes suffering, and further obfuscates a simple truth, that we know good from bad, in our souls, but often choose to do bad, because our minds are easily fooled.

the energy of love created life, and delights in nurturing the same. Hate brings death and destruction, it delights in causing suffering. Without both, in balance, life in a finite realm is not so incredible, so we do not really want to judge these conscious energies, they are beyond the physical, and when we look at it from the perspective of a meat being, we will miss what eyes of rods and cones can not see.

So we make our choices based on what we justify as right, or believe in our heart is right. You will know when you are on the illuminated path when it feels like everyone wants you to change. The world is adrift in treacherous energies right now. People doing evil in the name of religion is the choice of people to do evil. People will claim faith in God, who is love, then go forth spewing hate, self superiority, it is nuts! Been going on a long time. I believe what feels true, and genuinely try to be patient, kind and endure in hope. Because that is what feels right to me.

I am not supposed to worry myself or react to the wrongdoings of others, I have my work cut out for me just trying not to let hateful thoughts linger in my head long enough to inspire evil deeds. I can not speak for all who have studied the words of Jesus, but I felt the truth in His words. He walked from town to town decrying prejudices and abuses of the poor, the women and children, those who were diabled, or just...different. in those patriarchal societies, what He was saying was outrageous! Totally unacceptable to the men in power, but people heard the truth in his words, they gathered in huge crowds, and people still talk about Him today. But of course, the temptation to say what will enrich and empower ones self proved too strong for many with poor intentions, who saw so many confused, vulnerable people who would believe what they were told.

Two thousand years later, the most visible aspect of religion is that feeling powerful is like a drug to certain people. The lies they left behind grew into doctrine, more deception has been added, and the simple truth, love is good, hate is bad, has been twisted and turned into something requiring large sums of money, and layers of power. Jesus saif be kind to all living creatures, even the ones we eat, we should love the life within them, respect the contribution they make to our life. If we nurtured life, generously, with love, the world would be paradise. He said if we fell to the deceit of hate, and lived selfish, prideful, greedy lives being cruel, eventually we would ruin the Earth, cause widespread suffering and destruction.

Sadly, ee humans seem to live our lives faithfully serving the dead things made by man, at the expense of the living Earth, and pressure each other to believe the multitude if lies our society currently believes with zealous adherence. It is quite a time to be alive. To be certain, humans have always misled each other to destruction, but now there are so many of us!

 

[ProximaCentauri]

Check out the large hadron collider project, the results they show regarding protons and neutrons. Think about it, energy is not destroyed. Our feelings, those silly things dismissed by most people are both chemical, and energetic. This part of us which is not destroyed, but which is regarded as "less real" by the deceived, who are many, many, many in our society, how we feel, how we want to make others feel, the energies we feed, these things make who we are. These are our everlasting selves, or at least part of our eternal self. when our bodies are dead, our energy remains, not destroyed, but quite possibly changed.

in the universe, beyond the physical, what still exists of us is plainly perceptible to others who do not require biological senses to perceive, and for whom time does not really apply. The suffering of being stuck inside a giant rock with a molten core is not that of nerves and flesh, but that frustrated, powerless feeling, and the knowledge that you were tricked into giving your gift of life to hate, traded the ability to fly for the inevitabile sinking. Time is physical, gravity is disrupted on a long time line that frees energies pulled in is how I see it, but I am just one in a world full of people with views on spirituality.

My sense is, one man told the truth so plainly, that if we exude kindness and compassion, our energy will be able to go on from this place, to perceive and experience the endless expanse of the universe. If you make your energy dark, angry, and hateful, when you no longer are tethered to your matter self, no longer drowned out by your meat brain, your energy will perceive gravity bearing on that heavy negative energy that you made of yourself.

the whole control freak thing, that is people, getting high off the power they feel like they have over people. Those people have been persuaded by deceitful energy, that voice in the back of their mind that says "these idiots will do whatever I tell them to do" without regard for how their misleading causes suffering, and further obfuscates a simple truth, that we know good from bad, in our souls, but often choose to do bad, because our minds are easily fooled.

the energy of love created life, and delights in nurturing the same. Hate brings death and destruction, it delights in causing suffering. Without both, in balance, life in a finite realm is not so incredible, so we do not really want to judge these conscious energies, they are beyond the physical, and when we look at it from the perspective of a meat being, we will miss what eyes of rods and cones can not see.

So we make our choices based on what we justify as right, or believe in our heart is right. You will know when you are on the illuminated path when it feels like everyone wants you to change. The world is adrift in treacherous energies right now. People doing evil in the name of religion is the choice of people to do evil. People will claim faith in God, who is love, then go forth spewing hate, self superiority, it is nuts! Been going on a long time. I believe what feels true, and genuinely try to be patient, kind and endure in hope. Because that is what feels right to me.

I am not supposed to worry myself or react to the wrongdoings of others, I have my work cut out for me just trying not to let hateful thoughts linger in my head long enough to inspire evil deeds. I can not speak for all who have studied the words of Jesus, but I felt the truth in His words. He walked from town to town decrying prejudices and abuses of the poor, the women and children, those who were diabled, or just...different. in those patriarchal societies, what He was saying was outrageous! Totally unacceptable to the men in power, but people heard the truth in his words, they gathered in huge crowds, and people still talk about Him today. But of course, the temptation to say what will enrich and empower ones self proved too strong for many with poor intentions, who saw so many confused, vulnerable people who would believe what they were told.

Two thousand years later, the most visible aspect of religion is that feeling powerful is like a drug to certain people. The lies they left behind grew into doctrine, more deception has been added, and the simple truth, love is good, hate is bad, has been twisted and turned into something requiring large sums of money, and layers of power. Jesus saif be kind to all living creatures, even the ones we eat, we should love the life within them, respect the contribution they make to our life. If we nurtured life, generously, with love, the world would be paradise. He said if we fell to the deceit of hate, and lived selfish, prideful, greedy lives being cruel, eventually we would ruin the Earth, cause widespread suffering and destruction.

Sadly, ee humans seem to live our lives faithfully serving the dead things made by man, at the expense of the living Earth, and pressure each other to believe the multitude if lies our society currently believes with zealous adherence. It is quite a time to be alive. To be certain, humans have always misled each other to destruction, but now there are so many of us!

Wow. You were really out there floating in the ether. This could be characterized as a metaphysical 60's jesus freak-like, stream of consciousness (drug induced?) musing....but it did make me smile while reading it. Were you wearing a tye dye shirt and smoking weed while writing it?

Are you familiar with Deepak Chopra? If not, you've managed to come up with similar musings to his. He is the king of metaphysical Woo Woo, mixing the religious with the metaphysical, the universe with pseudoscience. Kinda like a wild tye dye shirt put into words. Total bull####e but appealing nonetheless.

I hope your hangover this morning is not overly debilitating. Have a wonderful metaphysical day.

 

[digitallest]

It appears you have developed your own personalized brand of what I would refer to as 'Contemporary Christianity'. Not something I would consider personally, but in my view infinitely better than a fundamentalist perspective. I like what you had to say with regard being open to the wisdom of other 'teachers' outside of the realm of Christianity.

Here's a quote on love and compassion you might like...
“We can reject everything else: religion, ideology, all received wisdom. But we cannot escape the necessity of love and compassion. This, then, is my true religion, my simple faith. In this sense, there is no need for temple or church, for mosque or synagogue, no need for complicated philosophy, doctrine or dogma. Our own heart, our own mind, is the temple. The doctrine is compassion." -Dalai Lama XIV

Well, thank you for the quote. Bhuddism produces a lot of philosophy that parallels where I ended up, belief-wise. I have been informed by other Christians that I am Way Wrong, but they cite church doctrone, more than (translations of) quotes from The Bible. Some people want to hold on to their sense of an angry God who will favor them, and destroy people like me. They pray for me.

 

[digitallest]

I tried to put into the physical the incredible perception I experienced when I was clinically dead for a time, during my second spine surgery, it was a long hard surgery for my doctor, and I ended up...somewhere else. I came back not afraid of death. I am far more afraid of that self superiority that infects so many souls, and had been a stain on my own. In that "I am so smart, and everyone is so stupid" is one of the underpinnings of hates doctrine.


Trying to describe that place, and what was revealed to me in words that would make sense to a person who is more in the physical, was a struggle, and obviously I did not accomplish it, but you enjoy your view of my spirit, I am sure it feels like you are very cool.

I Was a writer, so producing a lot of wordy thoughts is not too difficult, does not require drugs, it just is not something I can describe because all our words seem to describe things we can sense with our physical bodies. That is ok, because I came back a much nicer person. Who happens to have lost her entire speech center to a contre coup brain injury. So, I will hold on to what I know of a universe where miracles happen, and love is a powerful force. I will probably never be able to describe it to my satisfaction, or anyone elses, but I came back with the assurance that there is still a lot left to discover, here, and...not here.

I never read deepak chopra because I thought he was one of those new agey hucksters talking about peyote invthe desert being good for your third eye or whatever, haha. I am a little disappointed now.

 

[ProximaCentauri]

I tried to put into the physical the incredible perception I experienced when I was clinically dead for a time, during my second spine surgery, it was a long hard surgery for my doctor, and I ended up...somewhere else. I came back not afraid of death. I am far more afraid of that self superiority that infects so many souls, and had been a stain on my own. In that "I am so smart, and everyone is so stupid" is one of the underpinnings of hates doctrine.

So you may find it very interesting that my 7 year anniversary of my NDE is today August 1. Emergency 4 hour surgery late on a Friday evening, performed at GW Hosp. My NDE had no religious component to it, only a feeling of mind dissociated from the body, floating in space, zero pain, and a euphoric feeling. Since that was the 2nd time I've cheated death, I also do not fear it, but I'm in no way yearning for it. I can relate to your epiphany with self superiority, and realize I have work to do still in that area. That said, a belief that the universe was created with you in mind - not saying you feel this way but many religious do - in my way of thinking is the pinnacle of egocentricity.

Trying to describe that place, and what was revealed to me in words that would make sense to a person who is more in the physical, was a struggle, and obviously I did not accomplish it, but you enjoy your view of my spirit, I am sure it feels like you are very cool.

So, being "more in the physical" I would say describes me in terms of living in the present, but I also have a spiritual component that is manifested in my relationship to others, family, friends, my dog. And, in a feeling of gratitude for the fact that I'm still living, knowing that I should by appreciate and connect to the earth, nature, the universe, others while I can.

I want you to know, that even though my response to your previous post was admittedly flippant, I do appreciate your viewpoint. Could you be right? Yes. It's an alluring proposition and one that we humans naturally want to gravitate to. If a creator exists that we could connect to upon our death, well that would be fine by me. I just don't think it's probable, but remain open to the thought. Could this creator be the Abrahamic god? No. The Abrahamic god, like all other gods created by man, is devised in man's image and exhibits virtually all of man's worst character flaws.

Again, I appreciate the viewpoint you have, and if I were a 'believer', my beliefs might take on a character similar to yours. Peace.

 

[digitallest]

Thank you for your post. I think we are fortunate to be here, and I am glad to be alive. I revere the trees, since coming back, I do not feel like everything is here for me, but everything here with me, I can make a connection with, and no one here is really above another. The smallest creatures have incomprehensible complexities. Knowing something, funny how that really does not mean what I think it does. I hope what I perceived is real, and acknowledge our belief prior to that neural-narcosis of near death can certainly influence what we experience. I know what you mean about being in no rush to return, I am glad to be here. The temporary nature of life makes it more exciting.

I take issue with a lot of what is, and has been done, in the name of religion, but I do not have to answer for acts of hate, past or present, save for my own. I try my best to keep that burden light, but it is authentic, so my failure rate is probably pretty close to average.