Civilians at Pax

[TheOtherGuy]

I'm sorry to introduce myself by bringing up what will probably be a conentious issue for some, but I'm interested in hearing what others have to say on this topic.

I've been working at PAX NAS for a while now, and in that time I've come to realize something: Nearly all civilians in admin positions there seem to be either incompetent or maliciously unhelpful. I'm talking about the Pass Office folks, the PSD staff, IMD, and now the transient NMCI folks. I'm not talking about the scientists and engineers and analysts--the ones I've met are great people.

It's the bean-counters and gate-keepers I'm complaining about. They have an incredibly small-minded devotion to slavish devotion to the rules--at least the few rules that they know. Getting an official passport renewed at PSD was an incredibly painful process. Everywhere else it's trivial, but here I had every obscure regulation in the foreign clearance guide quoted to me as to why I couldn't get one. It's like they were trying to be unhelpful. Took months to finally get one. Every time I have to deal with someone in the pass office, they have no clue how to run their systems, and no interest whatsoever in helping me out. Even at check-in, on my first day here, the person they'd put in charge of this process had a terrible speech impediment. I literally had to have her repeat everything she said three times, and I still missed most of it (not to mention all the wrong info she gave me). And we won't even get into the travesty that is NMCI.

There's this weird perception of the military in movies and TV that they can't do anything without following billions of regulations and filling out forms--they're slaves to petty bureaucracy. But the truth is that it's the civilians that are like that. The military's attitude is, "What needs to happen so that you can get the job done?" As long as it's done safely, the most important thing is getting the job done. For the support civilians it's like, "What obscure rule can I dredge up that can possibly be interpreted to hinder whatever you want to do?"

So my questions are (a) Anybody else have this problem? I know all my coworkers do. (b) If you are one of these civilians, can you explain this attitude to me?

Again, sorry if this insults anyone. I don't mean to paint with a broad brush--I'm sure there are some competent civilians--but these are my experiences. Just tryin' to get some dialogue going here....

 

[MDindef]

Definitely, but I think it may be because they enjoy the little bit of power they have. In the past three years, I have been able to overcome it.

To be honest, I have not had the problem you're having with the pass office. I've always found them to be upbeat and very helpful. Which pass office are you at? There is a difference between the pass office at gate 2 and gate 1. I always go to gate 1. Perhaps you'll find better attitudes there.

I'm a recent military retiree, so I don't have to deal with it as much anymore!

 

[jeneisen]

I worked on base for a few years and I ran into the same problem. What I have noticed is that if you are a contractor, no one wants to help you in any way. You made a comment that they try to make it difficult, well my theory on that is they are lazy and don't want to deal with it. They are in a cushiony secure job where they can't get fired, and they just don't want to make the extra effort. As far as NMCI, my fiancee works for them and he also agrees that the way it is handled and the policies are dumb, but it pays our bills. Belive me you are not alone here in your opinion but what else can we really do about it?


By the way, welcome to the forums.

 

[Kain99]

Your right on target MD..... These are small people with small lives who cling to small power and abuse the heck out of it! It's not only at Pax but Pax is notorious for this behavior.

 

[Heretic]

A good number of those people you mention are contractors but I have to agree how badly many do their jobs.

Getting a passport is a huge pain, you can't get one till you have orders but yet it can take a month to get a passport *roll*

There are plenty of incompetent scientists and engineers there btw, I have to deal with them every day.

 

[TheOtherGuy]

Originally posted by Heretic

Getting a passport is a huge pain, you can't get one till you have orders but yet it can take a month to get a passport

Yeah, but it's worse than that...you have to have orders to a place that actually requires a passport. For those that don't know, a lot of countries--most of Europe for example--don't require an official passport for entry; your ID and official orders are enough. So even you have orders, chances are PSD will tell you, "Oh, you don't need a passport for that country." Yeah, right. Like I'm going to go whipping out my orders every time I need to identify myself. "Hey terrorists! Over here! Kidnap me! Kidnap me!" This point is lost on the PSD staff, though.

You could get around this, of course, by simply having your command generate dummy orders to a country requiring passports. But of course, that would be wrong.

 

[TheOtherGuy]

Originally posted by Heretic
There are plenty of incompetent scientists and engineers there btw, I have to deal with them every day.

I'm sure there are, it's just that--apart from a couple who dress like they haven't bought new clothes since the disco era--my experience with them has been way more positive that with the run-o'-the mill folks.

 

[TheOtherGuy]

Originally posted by MDindef
Which pass office are you at? There is a difference between the pass office at gate 2 and gate 1. I always go to gate 1. Perhaps you'll find better attitudes there.

Thanks! I've always been a Gate 2 sort of person, but I'll try the other one from now one.

 

[SxyPrincess]

I'm not one of the above aforementioned however, my theory is this: I pretend to work, they pretend to pay me.

 

[RoseRed]

I am a contractor that does both admin & financial. The civil servants that I support come to me for help before they go the the civil servant admin staff. We had one that truly did as little as possible and went into a huff if some asked her to do some actual work.

 

[JabbaJawz]

Originally posted by RoseRed
I am a contractor that does both admin & financial. The civil servants that I support come to me for help before they go the the civil servant admin staff. We had one that truly did as little as possible and went into a huff if some asked her to do some actual work.

We have a couple like that in my program office. A couple ladies that work for my company are admin. support onsite, and HATE working with the Gov't admin. people. The contractors are expected to do all the work while the Gov't employees file their nails...

 

[Oz]

Maybe it's because your name is Mohammed Nezir?

 

[RoseRed]

Originally posted by cariblue
The one you're talking about, her name wouldn't start with an "M", would it?

No, "B".

Actually, she has recenlty moved on and her replacement seems very good and capable.

 

[SEABREEZE 1957]

Originally posted by laureng
We have a couple like that in my program office. A couple ladies that work for my company are admin. support onsite, and HATE working with the Gov't admin. people. The contractors are expected to do all the work while the Gov't employees file their nails...

So very true.......

 

[Pookie]

Originally posted by TheOtherGuy
--apart from a couple who dress like they haven't bought new clothes since the disco era--

That is so true!

 

[Pookie]

Originally posted by laureng
We have a couple like that in my program office. A couple ladies that work for my company are admin. support onsite, and HATE working with the Gov't admin. people. The contractors are expected to do all the work while the Gov't employees file their nails...

Bingo! Some of these people feel that we as contractors owe them something, for some reason. A lot of them I've experienced have the biggest chip on their shoulders...and for what? Like Lauren said, they get paid to pass their work on to us! They avoid work as if it were the plague!

 

[Christy]

I have dumb question. Why do you have to go through the base pass office for a passport?

I will however second (and third) that incompetent folks at PAX, (gov't and contractor) far outweigh the competent folks there.

It tends to burn my behind, because anyone that works within DoD should take what they do seriously, and realize who it is they're being paid to support. (The Military folks).

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by Christy
I have dumb question. Why do you have to go through the base pass office for a passport?

I think it was PSD for the passport.

I will however second (and third) that incompetent folks at PAX, (gov't and contractor) far outweigh the competent folks there.

It tends to burn my behind, because anyone that works within DoD should take what they do seriously, and realize who it is they're being paid to support. (The Military folks).

I see a lot of "dead weight" here at Pax but there are a bunch of us that work our butts off to get the mission done. Those responsible for the employees aren't doing their jobs when it comes to getting rid of non-performers. They claim it is too hard to fire someone but in fact it is simply them not doing their jobs that is the problem.

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by Ken King

I see a lot of "dead weight" here at Pax but there are a bunch of us that work our butts off to get the mission done. Those responsible for the employees aren't doing their jobs when it comes to getting rid of non-performers. They claim it is too hard to fire someone but in fact it is simply them not doing their jobs that is the problem.

BINGO Ken! The thing that really sucks (but will always be a fact of life) is that everyone knows who performs. Those who bust their hump have to pull the weight of those who don't. The dead weight have it made. Eventually people don't even bother with them, so they slide through the day with zero stress, probably did all their bills at work, run out for a few hours to do their personal errands etc... while the performers have to do double or triple the workload. And so on and so on.....

 

[yakky doodle]

Originally posted by Christy
BINGO Ken! The thing that really sucks (but will always be a fact of life) is that everyone knows who performs. Those who bust their hump have to pull the weight of those who don't. The dead weight have it made. Eventually people don't even bother with them, so they slide through the day with zero stress, probably did all their bills at work, run out for a few hours to do their personal errands etc... while the performers have to do double or triple the workload. And so on and so on.....

would a costco run for a work-related party be considered part of that group?