Clicker Training

[SamSpade]

I've been reading a book on positive dog training, and trying to follow it; so many books go on for pages describing the training, but don't actually give a blow by blow description on how to actually do it.

Most of the book I'm reading advocates using a clicker. So far, everything I've read on the web says that it can be very effective - go into great detail as to why it works, behaviorally - but several of them disagree as to what it is or how to use it.

For those of you who have tried it - how did you start out? What were your first steps?

 

[Nickel]

http://www.clickertraining.com/training/clicker_basics/

 

[Nickel]

One thing our trainer stressed was that you need to "load" the clicker first. You only have to do it once. Click and treat a few times, until the dog realizes that when it hears a click, it gets a treat. That way, when the dog gives you the requested behavior, and hears the click, he/she knows they've done something good, and will be rewarded.

 

[SamSpade]

http://www.clickertraining.com/training/clicker_basics/

That's one of the articles I've been reading this morning.

I was a bit perplexed over the whole issue of making sure the dog learns the lesson you're trying to teach it. One of the examples is the timing of the reward, because humans want to "help the dog out" by luring the treat and rewarding him ahead of time, because it just unwittingly teaches the dog to wait a little longer and to do nothing until it is rewarded.

I talked to my wife, and I've figured out a way to isolate the dogs for training, one on one - past experience has shown me that trying to train them at the same time is pointless. I personally think Jingle, the female, is exceptionally bright, and usually learns things on the first or second try. Jangle is in general better behaved, but he doesn't like strangers and takes a while to warm up to them.

I'm optimistic about this stuff.

 

[Nickel]

I was a bit perplexed over the whole issue of making sure the dog learns the lesson you're trying to teach it.

It's very simple. Do not click and treat until the dog gives the requested behavior. If you want the dog to sit, only click and treat if the dog sits. If it prances around, wait. If it sits, then promptly lays down, don't click/treat. You didn't ask it to lay down.

 

[SamSpade]

One thing our trainer stressed was that you need to "load" the clicker first. You only have to do it once. Click and treat a few times, until the dog realizes that when it hears a click, it gets a treat. That way, when the dog gives you the requested behavior, and hears the click, he/she knows they've done something good, and will be rewarded.

I have a question, then about the clicker - I was under the impression that eventually, the dog expects the click itself as the reward, and doesn't always get a treat. Are you saying that once the clicker is "loaded", you can forego the treat right away, or that they learn the lesson that a treat is coming right away?

I've noticed they've learned a few 'unfortunate' lessons - Jingle gets her medicine in a piece of cheese every day - and they don't like ANYTHING as much as they like cheese. Since their noses are better than mine - they think that anytime they SMELL cheese, they're getting some, since I don't eat much of it myself. So I've already noticed they sometimes "learn" things I don't intend, but that they do catch on very fast.

 

[Nickel]

they learn the lesson that a treat is coming right away?

Right. At this point, my dog is content with a "good boy" and belly rub as his reward for tricks/obedience he already knows. I've never done the clicker without the treat.

 

[Cowgirl]

A friend of mine used clicker training on his border collie, and he loved it. He said he didn't give treats with the clicks....because he said the point of the click is to get them to stop focusing so much on the reward, and instead focus on doing to "trick" right. I've never tried it though. :shrug:

 

[Bustem' Down]

The only thing my dog got out of clicker training is that when the clicker clicks, he get's a treat. He got to the point where he stopped doing the "trick" I was trying to teach him and would sit there and bark at me, then look at the clicker.

 

[SamSpade]

Ok, I'm about a third of the way into the book, and I think I might just start trying this. At the back of the book, it has some VERY simple "lesson plans". I'm not a dog trainer - I have very little idea of exactly *what* I should be teaching my dog. I know I want to teach them not to jump; to sit patiently with company present - not to beg at the table or while someone is eating - and to behave themselves around children (again, not jumping, playful biting or excessive licking). I want them to come when called - no matter what distractions there are. Beyond that, I could care less if they fetch my slippers, chase frisbees or play dead.

What lessons should I start with, how many times should I try it, how long should they hold the command, etc.? Is there a place that shows a progression of lessons? The book is a little disjointed as far as teaching specifics.

 

[Nickel]

The only thing my dog got out of clicker training is that when the clicker clicks, he get's a treat. He got to the point where he stopped doing the "trick" I was trying to teach him and would sit there and bark at me, then look at the clicker.

When my dog sees the clicker, he knows treats are coming, so we reserve it for new "tricks", and just use praise as a reward for reviewing old ones. Usually if he sees me with the clicker in my hand, he runs over, sits, lays down, plays dead, rolls over, stands up, gives me his paw, spins around, all in rapid succession, trying to guess what I want him to do.

 

[SamSpade]

When my dog sees the clicker, he knows treats are coming, so we reserve it for new "tricks", and just use praise as a reward for reviewing old ones. Usually if he sees me with the clicker in my hand, he runs over, sits, lays down, plays dead, rolls over, stands up, gives me his paw, spins around, all in rapid succession, trying to guess what I want him to do.

That's too funny.

Even though I haven't really trained my dogs in any official sense - they learn fast. They get excited when I am anywhere NEAR the leash, which sits in the same place - which is strange, because they're kinda "eh" about walks - they'd much rather just run in the back yard. They're used to the nightly "pee" ritual before bedtime - something I'm doing to help Jingle from peeing in her crate at night (and with medication, it appears to be working, thank God) - but they're used to being given a pile of treats at bedtime for going into their crates, they always run the treat table after peeing - even well before bedtime.

Of course, Jingle also gets her medication in a piece of cheese every night, and to keep Jangle from getting too upset, he gets one without a pill along with her. When I go into the kitchen, the moment I touch the pill bottle, they sit somewhat patiently behind me, because they know they get nothing until they stop fidgeting. It's just funny to turn around and see them trying so hard not to fidget, as if to say, please hurry, I'm being good, but I just LOVE cheese. (It's a good thing the pieces are small, because I think they'd fight over anything bigger; the other night we gave them pig ears, and the female, who is a little smaller, IMMEDIATELY took off with her ear to a quiet part of the house to eat hers - because she knew big brother would try to steal it).

 

[cattitude]

Ok, I'm about a third of the way into the book, and I think I might just start trying this. At the back of the book, it has some VERY simple "lesson plans". I'm not a dog trainer - I have very little idea of exactly *what* I should be teaching my dog. I know I want to teach them not to jump; to sit patiently with company present - not to beg at the table or while someone is eating - and to behave themselves around children (again, not jumping, playful biting or excessive licking). I want them to come when called - no matter what distractions there are. Beyond that, I could care less if they fetch my slippers, chase frisbees or play dead.

What lessons should I start with, how many times should I try it, how long should they hold the command, etc.? Is there a place that shows a progression of lessons? The book is a little disjointed as far as teaching specifics.

Doesn't matter if you use a clicker or not. You need to learn how to train your dogs. Recall...coming when called...is something that takes a long time and you need to work on it every day. You cannot set them up for failure. If they are out in the yard and you want them to come every time..you need to have them on a long lead and make sure they come every time you call them. If they are allowed to get away with it, even a few times, they will assume you don't really mean come.

Not jumping on people...you need to show them how they are supposed to act when greeting people. Sit for petting..if you have to put a leash on them when people come it, do it. They don't get recognized until they are sitting. My dogs don't jump on me, but they will jump on Otter because he doesn't demand that they sit.

I've told you this all of this before. You really could benefit from a class with Brett Warren. She can teach you how to train your dogs successfully.

 

[Bustem' Down]

When my dog sees the clicker, he knows treats are coming, so we reserve it for new "tricks", and just use praise as a reward for reviewing old ones. Usually if he sees me with the clicker in my hand, he runs over, sits, lays down, plays dead, rolls over, stands up, gives me his paw, spins around, all in rapid succession, trying to guess what I want him to do.

That's pretty much all I get out of it.