CNO Responds

Monello

Monello

Smarter than the average bear
PREMO Member
Someone mentioned that sailors that grew up in the stress card days are now in senior leadership in the Navy. With multiple people standing watch on the bridge, coupled with state of the art electronics, it's hard to fathom collisions at sea being random occurrences.
 
b23hqb

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
The new snowflake Navy?

Sad state of affairs in the Navy, for sure. Seamanship, rules of the road, proper vessel handling and navigation seem to be a thing of the past.
 
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This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
Monello said:
Someone mentioned that sailors that grew up in the stress card days are now in senior leadership in the Navy. With multiple people standing watch on the bridge, coupled with state of the art electronics, it's hard to fathom collisions at sea being random occurrences.
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I'm hearing talk of a steering system failure, which is feasible. I'm also hearing talk of false GPS signals sent to either/or/both the Navy ship and commercial vessel - almost as if this was a continuing test of that capability.

Where was the McCain? Well, just a couple of days earlier it passed within 12 miles of one of the artificial islands China made; a "freedom of navigation" pass designed to piss China off. It did, and suddenly the same ship is hit? Seems awfully coincidental, doesn't it?
 
black dog

black dog

Free America
Monello said:
Someone mentioned that sailors that grew up in the stress card days are now in senior leadership in the Navy. With multiple people standing watch on the bridge, coupled with state of the art electronics, it's hard to fathom collisions at sea being random occurrences.
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It's really hard to understand, I have over 30,000 miles solo in a sailboat and most of that was done in 92. I only had maybe 8 hours a day with working GPS satellites at that time along with $hit demarcation and a 20 mile radar. No one ran over me nor did I hit any other ships. I just don't get it..
Gross tonnage always wins..
 
itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
black dog said:
It's really hard to understand, I have over 30,000 miles solo in a sailboat and most of that was done in 92. I only had maybe 8 hours a day with working GPS satellites at that time along with $hit demarcation and a 20 mile radar. No one ran over me nor did I hit any other ships. I just don't get it..
Gross tonnage always wins..
Click to expand...

ever navigate in a GPS denial environment?
 
black dog

black dog

Free America
Yes, I used to move boats up and down the east coast in my youth during my vacations, All loran and visual waypoints.
I did my circumnavigation with a sextant and I would update ( correct when necessary ) my chart when I could get a position on GPS then.
 
itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
black dog said:
Yes, I used to move boats up and down the east coast in my youth during my vacations, All loran and visual waypoints.
I did my circumnavigation with a sextant and I would update ( correct when necessary ) my chart when I could get a position on GPS then.
Click to expand...

Not the same.. I'm not talking about navigating with something other than GPS.That used to be the norm, but the norm now is GPS navigation and GPS based systems, to include auto pilot, auto navigation..

Operating a boat or plane that is dependent on GPS in a GPS denial area, you may not even realize you don't have GPS until you run aground or run into something..
 
O

officeguy

Well-Known Member
itsbob said:
Not the same.. I'm not talking about navigating with something other than GPS.That used to be the norm, but the norm now is GPS navigation and GPS based systems, to include auto pilot, auto navigation..

Operating a boat or plane that is dependent on GPS in a GPS denial area, you may not even realize you don't have GPS until you run aground or run into something..
Click to expand...

I doubt that the steering system of a major USN vessel is singularly dependent on GPS. Unless the evildoer also hacked into the ships radar, gyro compass and disabled everyones binoculars, I dont see how a cyberattack would cause ships to bump into each other.
 
M

MADPEBS1

Man, I'm still here !!!
Pretty hard to miss a BIG Phucking tanker, deck watches doing nothing, picking their nose, playing apps on their iphones, no comms to bridge, WTF!!!! We're looking like a joke.
 
black dog

black dog

Free America
itsbob said:
Not the same.. I'm not talking about navigating with something other than GPS.That used to be the norm, but the norm now is GPS navigation and GPS based systems, to include auto pilot, auto navigation..

Operating a boat or plane that is dependent on GPS in a GPS denial area, you may not even realize you don't have GPS until you run aground or run into something..
Click to expand...

My understanding of GPS denial would be boating near shore and or with overhead obstructions that would block gps signals used to navigate.

I was taught to dead reckon. Off shore every few hours mark the charts, inshore by visual landmarks, bouys, markers and so on. Mark the chart or book that you are using to navigate.
Most of my offshore sailing was done using a windvane for self steering.
My micrologic loran and GPS do not intergrade with either of my my auto pilots. Nor do I have a GPS chart plotter.
I will upgrade in the next few years before the next adventure off shore.

If I lost GPS off shore I would know within 25 or 30 miles and I would not really be hindered much at all. That's what a sextant is for.
 
itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Theres a lot here to talk about.. but if you search FAA NexGen AirTraffic Control GPS jamming it should lead you to a test of a cigarette box sized jammer. it was all of one watt in strength, and sent cargo ships unknowingly off course until their GPS was restored and the alarms started going off..

FAA discovered the issue when a truck driver kept regularly driving by their GPS based ATC system with a jammer on board...

Its pretty eye opening.. for one they had no idea how widespread a VERY small jammer can deny or JAM GPS..

Not even talking about Spoofing GPS
 
Gilligan

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
black dog said:
Yes, I used to move boats up and down the east coast in my youth during my vacations, All loran and visual waypoints.
I did my circumnavigation with a sextant and I would update ( correct when necessary ) my chart when I could get a position on GPS then.
Click to expand...
..no RDF? We probably relied on that device more than any other. Had all the stations marked on our charts for rapid location plots.
 
Gilligan

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Not sure why GPS would matter when it's the radar systems that generate various levels of collision warnings and alarms. The commercial vessels also have very specifically defined IMO compliant automated collision avoidance systems.
 
black dog

black dog

Free America
Gilligan said:
..no RDF? We probably relied on that device more than any other. Had all the stations marked on our charts for rapid location plots.
Click to expand...

I've never used one. I've seen them on boats in the past, that's about it.
Was Loran available where you used it ?
 
black dog

black dog

Free America
Gilligan said:
Not sure why GPS would matter when it's the radar systems that generate various levels of collision warnings and alarms. The commercial vessels also have very specifically defined IMO compliant automated collision avoidance systems.
Click to expand...

That was my avoidance system ( another set of eyes ) when I wasn't on deck, radar alarm goes off at preset 20 mile guard range, pick up microphone and hail other boat / ship with a quick conversation...
 
Gilligan

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
black dog said:
I've never used one. I've seen them on boats in the past, that's about it.
Was Loran available where you used it ?
Click to expand...

It was but we never bought one for the old cruiser I'm referring to. We had the RDF box (one with big rotary dial on top that housed the antenna, with pointer to bearing scale) and we had a visual bearing device..called a polaris if I recall correctly.
 
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