Coal update

transporter

Active Member
Despite the Trump administration’s efforts to bolster thermal coal demand from U.S. power generators, the thermal market has continued to shrink as coal plants get beat out by cheaper natural gas-fired generators and renewable energy sources.

“Exports are the saving grace,” said Andrew Cosgrove of Bloomberg Intelligence. “If you’re a thermal coal producer, you’re not going to get any help from the domestic market.”

Overall, U.S. coal output fell 2.3 percent through June 30 compared with a year ago.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/state-american-coal-look-west-221313292.html

Coal is being beat by cheaper, cleaner alternatives. This was true before the election and still holds true today. Trump's buffoonery can't change market forces (and of course "true" Patriots and conservatives don't want the govt picking winners and losers, right?).
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
The alternative was his opponent's plan - to shut it down completely. You call TRUMP a moron? How do you think this played out in the coal regions of the nation?
Dropping 2.3 percent is much preferable to dropping 100%.

Until technology is developed to make use of our vast coal reserves - the largest in the world - its use WILL continue to dwindle.
But I have little doubt that such technology WILL be found. It's too great a commodity to just leave in the ground untouched.
 

Kyle

Imagine No Democrats
PREMO Member
Whether you like it or not, coal is going to remain an important source of energy for a long time to come.

Electrical Production: 2017
Fossil fuels (total)2,51662.7%
Natural gas1,27331.7%
Coal1,20830.1%
Petroleum (total) 21 0.5%
Petroleum liquids 13 0.3%
Petroleum coke 9 0.2%
Other gases 14 0.4%
Nuclear 805 20.0%
Renewables (total) 687 17.1%
Hydropower 300 7.5%
Wind 254 6.3%
Biomass (total) 64 1.6%
Wood 43 1.1%
Landfill gas 11 0.3%
Municipal solid waste (biogenic) 7 0.2%
Other biomass waste 3 0.1%
Solar (total) 53 1.3%
Photovoltaic 50 1.2%
Solar thermal 3 0.1%
Geothermal 16 0.4%
Pumped storage hydropower[SUP]3[/SUP] -6 -0.2%
Other sources 13 0.3%
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
A couple of more incidents like Fukushima or Chernoble and people might start thinking Nuclear is a but dangerous.
As once these incident occur it is impossible to stop.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
A couple of more incidents like Fukushima or Chernoble and people might start thinking Nuclear is a but dangerous.
As once these incident occur it is impossible to stop.
I started my college career pursuing a degree in nuclear engineering.
The spring of my freshman year, Three Mile Island happened. I saw the writing on the wall and switched majors.
I wasn't wrong. Years later, I was working for Harvard in their radiation safety department, and watched the last new plant in the country open -
Seabrook New Hampshire. Around that time, Chernobyl took place - and THAT was an example of very typical Russian development -
EXTREMELY weak on safety, backups, any kind of rational development. They might as well have built it in a basement.
And true to form, the Russians tried to HIDE it until the whole world knew. (They have before and since had MANY nuclear accidents
around their nation, and the surrounding towns are now missing from current maps, just as some of their cosmonauts just disappeared).

Fukushima was another matter. A well built reactor - in an extremely stupid place.

As much as we often tout nations like China and France, who develop most or significant portion of their power from nuclear -
we're still leading the world in nuclear power - and no accidents except for that little puff back in '79, which resulted in no deaths.
AND there are technologies to make nuclear *MUCH* safer - for example, LFTR and molten salt reactors, which CANNOT have meltdowns,
because they must be externally heated in order to operate.

I have great faith in the future of nuclear, if the research in it is allowed to progress.

Of course, the downside of nuclear is, it really just takes one seriously bad accident to literally blow it all to hell.
So - I do get it. I also remember that steam driven cars were touted as being much more inherently dangerous than gasoline engines,
and the advertisements went "do you want your children blown sky-high" with imagery suggesting the very same.
About the most dishonest campaign I've ever run across, historically.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Coal is being beat by cheaper, cleaner alternatives. This was true before the election and still holds true today. Trump's buffoonery can't change market forces (and of course "true" Patriots and conservatives don't want the govt picking winners and losers, right?).
The government should not pick winners and losers, this is very true. Of course, that's not what the last administration did. They routinely chose winners, and forced losers. Remember Mr. Obama's position on coal as he was running for president: 'If someone wants to build a new coal-fired power plant they can, but it will bankrupt them because they will be charged a huge sum for all the greenhouse gas that’s being emitted." In a rare act on Mr. Obama's part, he kept that campaign promise. He instituted the "Clean Power Plan".

Interesting that you are bringing up coal today, as just yesterday there was released a draft of the plan to modify the regulations associated with the Clean Power Plan.

NYT said:
WASHINGTON — The Trump administration has drafted a new proposal to regulate carbon dioxide emissions from coal-fired power plants, one that is far less stringent than the climate plan finalized in 2015 by former President Barack Obama.

...

The new proposal, according to industry attorneys familiar with the plan, would recommend regulating the emissions of individual coal plants, which would call for modest upgrades, such as improving efficiency or substituting fuel. That contrasts with the more ambitious goals of the Clean Power Plan, which encouraged utilities to make broader systemic changes to cut emissions, such as switching from coal to natural gas or renewable power.

...

...the E.P.A. crafted a new plan that would technically regulate carbon dioxide without forcing major changes on the industry. Among other things, the new proposal would give states significant leeway in enforcing the rules. Industry attorneys said they expected it to borrow elements from a proposal Mr. Pruitt himself drafted for Oklahoma in 2014, in the course of challenging the Obama administration’s plan.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Coal is being beat by cheaper, cleaner alternatives. This was true before the election and still holds true today. Trump's buffoonery can't change market forces (and of course "true" Patriots and conservatives don't want the govt picking winners and losers, right?).


:tantrum

Every post you make is against anyone or any group that doesn't conform to your propagandist viewpoints.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/state-american-coal-look-west-221313292.html

Coal is being beat by cheaper, cleaner alternatives. This was true before the election and still holds true today. Trump's buffoonery can't change market forces (and of course "true" Patriots and conservatives don't want the govt picking winners and losers, right?).
So you're saying coal mines and coal jobs haven't been added to our economy since Trump was elected? Is that what you are saying?
 

littlelady

God bless the USA
So you're saying coal mines and coal jobs haven't been added to our economy since Trump was elected? Is that what you are saying?
Trans doesn’t know what she/he is saying. It is called regurgitation.
 
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LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

The alternative was his opponent's plan - to shut it down completely. You call TRUMP a moron? How do you think this played out in the coal regions of the nation?
Dropping 2.3 percent is much preferable to dropping 100%.

Until technology is developed to make use of our vast coal reserves - the largest in the world - its use WILL continue to dwindle.
But I have little doubt that such technology WILL be found. It's too great a commodity to just leave in the ground untouched.
Ya know, I tell ya, I sure do wish the local hardware stores still carried and sold coal. Though dirty while handling, it sure does put out good long burning reliable heat. And it doesn't take much either. Grew up with a pot bellied stove for heat. It was a wonderful thing. And very little ash to deal with as well.
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

A couple of more incidents like Fukushima or Chernoble and people might start thinking Nuclear is a but dangerous. As once these incident occur it is impossible to stop.
A couple of more? Fukushima is the gift that will keep on giving for decades to come. Three (3) total nuclear core, (hundreds of tons) meltdowns along with over a thousand tons of spent nuclear fuel that were stored above all the reactors melting away or blown into the atmosphere. Fukushima puts Chernobyl to shame. Compare as being shot with a spit ball through a straw versus with a battleship's 16 inch gun. What happened was an extinction level event. Just because it is not in the news does not mean it has gone away or been taken care of with all the danger now remediated.
 

black dog

Free America
PREMO Member
If I may ...



Ya know, I tell ya, I sure do wish the local hardware stores still carried and sold coal. Though dirty while handling, it sure does put out good long burning reliable heat. And it doesn't take much either. Grew up with a pot bellied stove for heat. It was a wonderful thing. And very little ash to deal with as well.
Stauffers feed in loveville / Leonardtown sells bulk hard anthracite coal.
And Tractor Supply sells 40 lb bags of anthracite nut coal.
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

Stauffers feed in loveville / Leonardtown sells bulk hard anthracite coal. And Tractor Supply sells 40 lb bags of anthracite nut coal.
Say what! Whoo hooo! My winter potbelly stove is going to love that coal. In addition to my back not having to split wood anymore. Thaaaaaaaank You!
 

black dog

Free America
PREMO Member
If I may ...



Say what! Whoo hooo! My winter potbelly stove is going to love that coal. In addition to my back not having to split wood anymore. Thaaaaaaaank You!
I can't think of the company name, but there is someone who will deliver bulk coal that does delivery in southern Maryland. I know the guys that do blacksmith work get it from him.i think it comes in a one ton increments.. I think...
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
If I may ...



A couple of more? Fukushima is the gift that will keep on giving for decades to come. Three (3) total nuclear core, (hundreds of tons) meltdowns along with over a thousand tons of spent nuclear fuel that were stored above all the reactors melting away or blown into the atmosphere. Fukushima puts Chernobyl to shame. Compare as being shot with a spit ball through a straw versus with a battleship's 16 inch gun. What happened was an extinction level event. Just because it is not in the news does not mean it has gone away or been taken care of with all the danger now remediated.
I agree and the radiation is dumped into the sea every day.

To me nuclear is dangerous.
 
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