Col. Ross Dedrickson, USAF Ret.
- Thread starter PJay
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Anyone who thinks we're the only intelligent life in the universe is an idiot. The odds of that are like zero and just tells me they are too narrow minded to grasp the concept of how vast and seemingly infinite space is.
It's not just a seemingly infinite space - it's time, also. There may BE or may have been intelligent life out there - and there may exist intelligent life that have built cities and created things -
But we've had advanced civilization for just a few thousand years, tops - and the universe is thousand, millions, billions of years old - and will continue to be after we are gone. Our existence is a tiny blip in the life of the universe. Add to that the seeming insurmountable time it would take to travel those distances - in a universe that is actually EXPANDING faster than light -
And the odds that even two advanced space-faring civilizations would ever connect become vanishingly small.
I think when we do finally connect it won't be in person. We'll get in touch through StarLink or something. This may have already happened and we just don't know about it or even realize it because it's unlikely they'll communicate like we do.
The guy who wrote The Martian also wrote a book called Project Hail Mary. It's more sci than I like with my fi and it was hard for me to follow, but you'd probably enjoy it if you haven't already read it.
I've not heard of it. I will have to check it out.
Every time - I look into some new idea about faster than light travel - I have doubts we ever have any chance of meeting another civilization. I suspect IF we ever do - it will be machines. Launched a very very long time ago. And space is vast - you think it's hard to find something in the ocean, or in a forest? How about a tiny craft in interplanetary - or interstellar - space? Because in all likelihood - we will have to find it by accident.
And no far-fetched plan to terraform ANYTHING within our solar system has any chance of making something Earthlike - to colonize the solar system, we will have to get used to the idea of life permanently indoors, And a lot of that is due to the facts that - it's amazing how absolutely PERFECT the Eartth is suited, for life. Temperature - toxins - environment - protection from radiation - from solar wind - from space bombardment.The composition of the atmosphere - the magnetosphere - the oceans - the tilt of the Earth. How useful something as simple as naturally occurring radiation encourages slight mutations, so that life can adapt.
I did see something amazing, however, this past week - they've found an enormous amount of water, on Mars, near one of the poles. Without water, we can't hope to ever live there, for many reasons. It's already there.
LightRoasted
If I may ...
For your consideration ...
If there is a more advanced high tech civilization on another planet 100,000, 500,000, 1 million, 10 million, 100 million light years way that detected our radio signals and wanted to visit us, even at light speed travel, and cryogenically suspended for long term space travel, by the time they arrived here, we would be gone. Which also means they left their planet knowing that they would never see their civilization again. The earth goes though destructive cataclysmic cycles on a regular basis that wipe out all of civilization and nearly all of human life. Though there are always humans that do survive, that slowly begin to carry on in a very rudimentary and primitive way. These events are basically a complete humanity reset when it comes to technology, because it is all lost during such cataclysmic events. All is washed away and destroyed.
Of course, that is not to say, if they do arrive by such time, that another human civilization has grown and developed by the time of their arrival. Maybe that time is now, during our time of human civilization? Who knows? Maybe a far off civilization picked up radio transmissions from an earlier human advanced civilization from 1 million, or so, years ago and are rightly about to arrive? Anything is possible I reckon.
These thoughts do make great sci fi movies though.
If there is a more advanced high tech civilization on another planet 100,000, 500,000, 1 million, 10 million, 100 million light years way that detected our radio signals and wanted to visit us, even at light speed travel, and cryogenically suspended for long term space travel, by the time they arrived here, we would be gone. Which also means they left their planet knowing that they would never see their civilization again. The earth goes though destructive cataclysmic cycles on a regular basis that wipe out all of civilization and nearly all of human life. Though there are always humans that do survive, that slowly begin to carry on in a very rudimentary and primitive way. These events are basically a complete humanity reset when it comes to technology, because it is all lost during such cataclysmic events. All is washed away and destroyed.
Of course, that is not to say, if they do arrive by such time, that another human civilization has grown and developed by the time of their arrival. Maybe that time is now, during our time of human civilization? Who knows? Maybe a far off civilization picked up radio transmissions from an earlier human advanced civilization from 1 million, or so, years ago and are rightly about to arrive? Anything is possible I reckon.
These thoughts do make great sci fi movies though.
*We* can't hope to live without water, but there may be infinite intelligent life forms that don't need water. Or oxygen.
*Human* life. But if the universe is infinite, that means there are infinite possibilities for what would be considered intelligent life.
You believe in God, so it shouldn't be such a stretch for you to believe that He created other intelligent life forms. The Bible is the Earth Bible; perhaps there's a Bible in another universe that they use to explain creation. Why would God stop at humans on Earth when there are no limits? Maybe we were a prototype and He grew life on another planet that's doing a heck of a lot better with His creation than we are.
We find things in the ocean and forest all the time. Normal people who aren't part of some government program do it with everyday tools. Imagine what NASA or X can find with their toys. Ideas that were "impossible" only 5 years ago are now reality. Go back to 1960 and tell the average person about the internet, or even smartphones. We've seen such mindblowing technological advances just in our blip of a lifetime, I have to believe anything is possible.
Well, the sentence in which I mentioned dealt specifically with OUR colonizing Mars, not finding life there. And we use water for many uses, not just drinking and agriculture.
But "intelligent" life doesn't necessarily mean, space-faring life. We've learned that creatures here - like an octopus - have extraordinary intelligence - but - it is unlikely they will evolve to make cities or develop science. They've had that chance for HUNDREDS of millions of years - and they're not changing. Humans are rather unusual in that we adapt to different environments by changing the environment, making tools, building and irrigating.
And maybe - we're the first - or among the first. Someone has to be. Maybe the others haven't come along yet. I do not dismiss that there COULD be other intelligent life in the universe - even life as "intelligent" as we claim to be. I think it is UNLIKELY in the span of time humans will exist in this universe, that we will EVER meet another one.
And I used that to illustrate - how difficult it would be to run into something in space that isn't already a mile wide. Imagine trying to find a dixie cup floating SOMEWHERE in the ocean - before it sinks and is lost forever - that's what it might be like, to find an alien machine wandering the universe in interstellar space.
We look up at the Moon, and think - wow - that's not so far away. And yet - you could fit EVERY SINGLE PLANET IN THE SOLAR SYSTEM between us, and the Moon. Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune - Uranus. And that is the closest planet. Voyager 1 and 2 have finally - left our solar system. They were launched almost fifty years ago.
I'm not saying technology can't improve substantially - I'm saying the typical person doesn't get just how damned big space really IS, because we've watched too many movies where people flit around from star system to star system and drop down on alien planets where all we are concerned about is air, temperature and hostile creatures. In reality, even ships approaching the speed of light would STILL have to be generational ships on a one way trip.
I remember when the Dick Tracy two way wrist TV was impossible. There's no reason to think Star Wars or Star Trek is always going to be impossible.
I don't think anyone thought it was impossible. I also remember going to the Franklin Institute as a boy and seeing a large TV screen broadcasting two ways - live - across the country. Waving to people in California. Circa 1967.
I remember people thinking, it was a long way off. He had it in the 40's - so it only took 60-70 years.
We already had radio and walkies. SOME tech, we've had a really long time - fax machines, while relegated to the past - have been around since the 1890's and compact ones, since the 1920's. For some technology, the limiting factor has not been SCIENCE, it's been cost.
And see, faster than light travel is something that physics says is impossible. And lots of things in Trek weren't "invented" because someone thought the science would one day be there. The transporter beam was created, because filming landing sequences for shuttles was expensive.
OUR physics, as we understand it. With the vastness of the universe, and all of the possibilities, we can't honestly believe we are the smartest and most knowing species/life form.
PJay
Well-Known Member
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Just the other day I saw one of the recent pictures captured by the upgraded Hubble...the number of "things" (planets stars, etc etc) in just that one view of deep, deep space was mind boggling.
Hubble also captured one of the first ever of a "black hole". In the large picture is a a huge swath of illuminated matter surrounding a tiny little black spot. You can barely make it out. Yet that tiny little black dot in that huge view range, was reportedly many BILLIONS of times larger than our sun. Very difficult to grasp size concepts like that one.
Hubble also captured one of the first ever of a "black hole". In the large picture is a a huge swath of illuminated matter surrounding a tiny little black spot. You can barely make it out. Yet that tiny little black dot in that huge view range, was reportedly many BILLIONS of times larger than our sun. Very difficult to grasp size concepts like that one.
This is why I love space. Not so much the techie stuff, but the idea of infinite vastness and endless possibility. That's why I loved it so much out west, because everything is enormous and beyond what our little minds can comprehend.