Cold water on waterboarding.......................

[Nonno]

"WASHINGTON - A former FBI interrogator who questioned al-Qaeda prisoners testified yesterday that the Bush administration incorrectly declared success from extreme techniques such as waterboarding, when those methods actually were slow, unreliable, and led an important witness to stop talking.

Ali Soufan, testifying to a Senate panel from behind a screen, said his team's nonthreatening interrogation approach elicited crucial information from al-Qaeda operative Abu Zubaydah, including intelligence on Jose Padilla, who was convicted of supporting an al-Qaeda cell.

Soufan said his team had to step aside when CIA contractors took over. They began using harsh methods that caused Zubaydah to "shut down," Soufan said, and his team had to be called back."

More at: Cold water on waterboarding | Philadelphia Inquirer | 05/14/2009

 

[This_person]

"WASHINGTON - A former FBI interrogator who questioned al-Qaeda prisoners testified yesterday that the Bush administration incorrectly declared success from extreme techniques such as waterboarding, when those methods actually were slow, unreliable, and led an important witness to stop talking.

Ali Soufan, testifying to a Senate panel from behind a screen, said his team's nonthreatening interrogation approach elicited crucial information from al-Qaeda operative Abu Zubaydah, including intelligence on Jose Padilla, who was convicted of supporting an al-Qaeda cell.

Soufan said his team had to step aside when CIA contractors took over. They began using harsh methods that caused Zubaydah to "shut down," Soufan said, and his team had to be called back."

More at: Cold water on waterboarding | Philadelphia Inquirer | 05/14/2009

This makes sense

The Bush Administration officials say "sometimes it works" (which implicitly states "sometimes it doesn't"). So, to prove that this is not true, some interrogator out for fame declares "yeah, but sometimes it doesn't!" (which, implicitly states "sometimes it does").


And, the point of all of this is........?

 

[Larry Gude]

This makes sense

The Bush Administration officials say "sometimes it works" (which implicitly states "sometimes it doesn't"). So, to prove that this is not true, some interrogator out for fame declares "yeah, but sometimes it doesn't!" (which, implicitly states "sometimes it does").


And, the point of all of this is........?

It's called 'polishing the turd'. The issue is blowing up in their face and they are so heavily invested in waterboarding someone who is trying to kill large numbers of Americans 10, 20, 100, 1,000 times is simply a horrible, mean thing to do.

 

[NTNG]

Actually, cold water works better when "water-boarding" Cold water shocks the senses more so.
You also want to have the subject inclined, and allow them to watch the "set up" The 2-3 minutes of watching helps build apprehension, as well as the blood "pooling" in the head. Increases the discomfort level...

 

[chernmax]

Well then I must be torturing my wife every time she takes a shower and I sneak in a flush the toilet!!!

 

[NTNG]

*LOL* I sneak in, and sit on the throne, and start making "groaning" noise. That an the occasional OMG, has her sceaming, and yelling for me to get out!

 

[ImnoMensa]

Ali Soufan a former interrogator. LMAO

Yeah Ali and what mosque do you attend?

 

[czygvtwkr]

Actually, cold water works better when "water-boarding" Cold water shocks the senses more so.
You also want to have the subject inclined, and allow them to watch the "set up" The 2-3 minutes of watching helps build apprehension, as well as the blood "pooling" in the head. Increases the discomfort level...

Id be willing to bet boiling water works pretty well

 

[edinsomd]

Id be willing to bet boiling water works pretty well

I'll bet it would too, but that would actually be torture.

 

[Larry Gude]

I'll bet it would too, but that would actually be torture.

Yup. In which case Nancy would have expressed outrage.

 

[edinsomd]

Yup. In which case Nancy would have expressed outrage.

And for good reason. But since none of that actually occured, methinks she doth protest too much. And now its biting her where the sun don't shine, and I like beer with my

 

[Alexa]

Ali Soufan a former interrogator. LMAO

Yeah Ali and what mosque do you attend?

Ali-Soufan is an Arab-American. He is one of 8 FBI agents that can speak arabic. He was also the chief agent in charge of investigating the attack on the U.S.S. Cole, in the harbor of Aden, Yemen, which killed seventeen American soldiers in October of 2000. He is American, has an outstanding record of serving his country and has proved himself invaluable. A great deal of respect is warranted as would any person serving his country.

I also don't understand the flippant attitude going on where this is concerned. Regardless of ones party affiliation, I would think any American would be concerned about whether or not laws or treaty's were broken. The reprecussions could spell disasterous for our soldiers.

Shame on you!

 

[Larry Gude]

I also don't understand the flippant attitude going on where this is concerned. Regardless of ones party affiliation, I would think any American would be concerned about whether or not laws or treaty's were broken. The reprecussions could spell disasterous for our soldiers.

Shame on you!

Look, Bush went to great lengths to get legal opinions on this, obviously informing members of the congress and the other major party. And it was just as obviously very targeted on who it was used on and why.

Americans of any affiliation, AMERICANS, land of the free, home of the brave, those people, should be deeply concerned about the attempts to politicize and CRIMINALIZE this entire mess.

There is clearly more venom coming from the left against fellow Americans than there is against those who attacked us and intended to do more.

Could Bush have done better? Do folks have a right to oppose the wars, their handling and to be critical? Or course. However, it is a HUGE step to start holding criminal trials, inquisitions and then, what, jail, executions, when we're talking about the handling of our nations enemies.

As for our troops, I got news for you; we were hated and despised LONG before Abu Graib, Gitmo or roughing up POW's. This is becoming a farce.

 

[Lenny]

Yup. In which case Nancy would have expressed outrage.

 

[Pushrod]

I heard it was a final total of THREE (3) terrorists that were waterboarded! Just 3! All this hoopla over three dirtbag terrorist that would saw your head off with a rusty knife if given the opportunity is insane.
Tell me what treaty covers these dirtbag terrorists?

 

[Larry Gude]

I heard it was a final total of THREE (3) terrorists that were waterboarded! Just 3! All this hoopla over three dirtbag terrorist that would saw your head off with a rusty knife if given the opportunity is insane.
Tell me what treaty covers these dirtbag terrorists?

Why, the Obama/DNC/Pelosi Inane Hypocrisy Act of 2009, of course.

 

[Alexa]

I'm of the mindset that if anyone had a real conversation, we would find that everyone is more in tune with one another than we think. We have to much corruption and partisanship to make sense of anything anymore, much less trust any information the public receives. If both the left and the right take a flying leap off a cliff, I think we would do much better and the country would be better off for it.

I am traveled and am not naive to American hatred. I remember times decades before 9/11 in which American passports would be well hidden during travels, especially if in the Armed Forces. And this was peace time.

It is because of this partisanship that I don't think the issue is being looked at in any reasonable manner by either side. I don't think anyone wants to coddle our enemies. However, there are certain rules of engagement made into law and agreed to. What those are I do not know, one is supposed to trust the experts in this, but that is laughable these days.

However, when one looks back into our history, waterboarding has consistently been considered torture. We hung Japanese for doing the same and worse to our soldiers. While it sure would be gratifying to apply Jack Bauer 24 tactics, it doesn't make it right and it doesn't necessarily mean one gets the desired results. According to the testimony, desired results were being achieved up until the questionable techniques were put into use. After that the prisoner clammed up.

The public doesn't have enough information. I do wish the documents Cheney is referring to would be declassified so that we could be better informed.

Bottom line, it all raises a red flag and warrants being looked into, albeit minus the spectacle it has blown itself up to be. Roaring at the top of your lungs to the world about the injustice isn't helping anything, but then neither is thumping our chests condoning every action. Those tactics in itself is harmful to our soldiers as is the political grandstanding.