CRE Are you ready for this?
- Thread starter hotcoffee
- Start date
Like I've said before. Its OK. When anyone comes at me with childlike name calling and defamatory remarks, it is only a sign that I've already won the argument.See that's the problem with you.... you can only play nice for as long as everyone is kissing your bottom....
You expect everyone to be taking you serious all this time? I don't!
Even huricane floyd blew out eventually.... remember that one.... you'll blow out too.... eventually....
No rate increase... that's the issue and that's the only issue....
stop confusing things with your wish to be king of the world....
So, I guess your answer to my previous question is: No, there is no law that would allow an STD to exist without a bond debt approved by at least 2/3 of the property owners.
OmyGawd
Member
Starting to eat your own now, eh? This subject has been beaten to death with absolutely no resolution. Everyone has an answer but no real solution. I sure don't have one nor do I have the answer. I've read the manifesto. I've followed this thread and still no one has produced a real solution. Isn't it time actually produce something other than hot air?
Nice try Becky. Seeing the date under the avatar tells me you are up to your same old games.
hotcoffee
New Member
What? OmyGawd is just another person who agrees that the manifesto is not the solution.....
punchbuggy
New Member
All Quiet????
Since the March Membership Meeting there has been no communication (still) from CRE or minutes posted.....last ones for this year are from back in January. Reading the newest document on the website is a presentation from the meeting I wasn't able to attend. Frustration.....pages dedicated to what Security does....to me, doesn't justify the cost. Our taxes pay for police to come on the scene but I won't beat that horse - it's already dead. So, it's quiet for now - until the next meeting I suppose.
It's interesting how we're saving money by streamlining staff & their functions but nothing specific is mentioned. Nothing changed this year - again......
Heard that the GM works from home quite a bit. Perhaps this is the reason answers aren't readily available to the membership paying salaries. Is that part of the savings plan??? I'm very frustrated - no one ever minds the store and I'm about done with it. Just blowing off steam
What action can CRE take if I only pay what I can afford on my bill when it comes and I make payments? Do they take you to court? I'm not looking to waste court time and money when the court system has bigger fish to fry but financially, they're on the bottom of the bill pile.
Since the March Membership Meeting there has been no communication (still) from CRE or minutes posted.....last ones for this year are from back in January. Reading the newest document on the website is a presentation from the meeting I wasn't able to attend. Frustration.....pages dedicated to what Security does....to me, doesn't justify the cost. Our taxes pay for police to come on the scene but I won't beat that horse - it's already dead. So, it's quiet for now - until the next meeting I suppose.
It's interesting how we're saving money by streamlining staff & their functions but nothing specific is mentioned. Nothing changed this year - again......
Heard that the GM works from home quite a bit. Perhaps this is the reason answers aren't readily available to the membership paying salaries. Is that part of the savings plan??? I'm very frustrated - no one ever minds the store and I'm about done with it. Just blowing off steam
What action can CRE take if I only pay what I can afford on my bill when it comes and I make payments? Do they take you to court? I'm not looking to waste court time and money when the court system has bigger fish to fry but financially, they're on the bottom of the bill pile.
slaphappynmd
New Member
Well the homeowners pay for the GM to have a free home...whether she is at home or at the office she is useless anyway. She is just easily manipulated and that is why the board enjoys her there.
hotcoffee
New Member
To those who will be angry with me for writing the following... I think you knew this was coming.... I won't apologize or take it back because I have learned the time has come for us to change the way things are done in CRE...
If you don't pay your dues...
you won't be able to vote....
they will probably put a lien on your property sometime in the next year or two....
you could actually get a payment plan when you do get any paperwork concerning collection...
any interest or late fees can be avoided by doing so...
the lien has no force... they can't take your house... as a matter of fact, they don't want to take your house because they wouldn't know what to do with it if they had it....
the world as we know it will not come to an end....
A few people benefit from CRE.... they live right around the lake, the beaches, the gardens, and the airport. The rest of us pay so that they can have a nice life....
I'd like to see a new fee structure that takes the previous statement into account....
AND... since the Special Taxing District is a tax... maybe we should look into taxation without representation arguments....
It is definitely possible to go door to door in CRE now... the majority of the members live here.... unlike it was back when the last covenant change occurred.... it can be done....
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punchbuggy
New Member
Not being able to vote is the least of my concerns right now but I do understand if I'm not paid up, I don't get a say. Just staying afloat financially is at the top of the list and I'm not interested in keeping the GM or in a cushy lifestyle at my expense. Just burns me.....how many staff do we have? What got stream lined? We're hiring beach patrols! (Saw on the website) Why? We have paid Security staff that can check decals or patrol and kick people off the beach or call the cops if someone is without a decal. Can't see where we have the money to hire more people....
hotcoffee
New Member
The Board, as well as management, continues to do the same thing.... and listen to the same people.
The people who can least afford to pay the rate increase proposed by the Finance Committee and the Board are the same people who, like yourself, will not be able to pay the HOA dues this year and vote to stop it....
While I don't agree with exnodak's website and think forcing the issue is an expensive venture none of us can afford at this time [accept the ones who earn well over the $75,000 annual income] .... I think he is kind of on the right track... we need to change the covenants.... we need to talk to every member and have them call the question to the docket....
The people who live at the lake's edge, on the airport, at the Bay Beaches, and on the cliffs... they should continue to pay the dues plus.... but you and I.... the average people who have a home in here with basically no daily benefits... the only benefit we get is the bill.... and the occassional use of the beach that is in dire need of upgrade.... we don't get to ride the horses.... we don't get to fly planes.... or ride in them... we don't get to watch the wild birds on the lake.... but we pay for those benefits....
The covenants say we should pay a fee.... but the only fee presented to us is in excess of $213.00 every year because they want us to pay to clean up the lake they live on.... or the insurance that allowes them to have an airport... or the suit to get revenge on a neighbor or the museum....
A covenant change will require them to give you and I a vote.... that could be the reason it gets dropped every time it comes around.... they can get the votes to keep the rates up.... because that vote is only on those who can afford it....
We need to force that vote.... we need a majority on the new board to bring the issue to every single member.... not just those who can afford it.... I've tried reasoning with them.... I've even fallen under the spell of the board myself.... but the time has come....
CREResident
New Member
The Real Issues - Simply Put
There's an old saying.... Don't be part of the problem if you're not willing to be part of the solution. If you want things to be better, then volunteer and run for a board position this year. As for me, I have to move, so I hope to sell and be done with CRE. But I'll miss a lot of positives about this community that are rarely highlighted on this forum.
Communication --
The Board really fails to communicate. Monthly newsletters stopped. No Board meeting minutes posted since Jan. 2009.
Fees --
If EVERYONE paid their fees, there would be no need to increase fees. 1 out of 4 owners are delinquent on fees. That's ridiculous. When you bought a house in CRE, you know there were fees and had a responsibility to know about the bylaws, covenants, etc.. Stop whining and pay your fees like everyone else -- maybe then, there will be money to fix the roads.
CRE Financial Responsibility --
CRE needs to trim the budget... especially since YOU don't pay your fees. Every budget can be trimmed and CRE is no exception.
Should People Living on the Lake, Airport, Beach pay more fees?--
NO. When you bought in CRE, you knew the deal. If you didn't like it, you shouldn't have bought your house. EVERYONE's property values increase or decrease based on the quality of these amenities. And yes, your property value will (and has) decrease if the quality of the lake, airport, or beach is poor. As a lake dweller, I'd agree to pay more money to improve the lake... but then all the entrances and access points to the lake will be closed and fenced off so you can't use it. But that's not possible because everyone who owns property in CRE has a legal and equal share of ownership of the lake, airport, and other amenities. If you're not using these, Why Not? Grab a kayak or canoe and paddle on the lake... enjoy sighting the many eagles, osprey, and heron. Get your children to participate in the Junior Pilot program. Take a walk on the beach or fish on the bay. Rockfish are running now. Have a picnic.
The Covenants --
Take action to elect a board who is willing to tackle this issue. But, the board members mostly run unopposed every year.
There's an old saying.... Don't be part of the problem if you're not willing to be part of the solution. If you want things to be better, then volunteer and run for a board position this year. As for me, I have to move, so I hope to sell and be done with CRE. But I'll miss a lot of positives about this community that are rarely highlighted on this forum.
Communication --
The Board really fails to communicate. Monthly newsletters stopped. No Board meeting minutes posted since Jan. 2009.
Fees --
If EVERYONE paid their fees, there would be no need to increase fees. 1 out of 4 owners are delinquent on fees. That's ridiculous. When you bought a house in CRE, you know there were fees and had a responsibility to know about the bylaws, covenants, etc.. Stop whining and pay your fees like everyone else -- maybe then, there will be money to fix the roads.
CRE Financial Responsibility --
CRE needs to trim the budget... especially since YOU don't pay your fees. Every budget can be trimmed and CRE is no exception.
Should People Living on the Lake, Airport, Beach pay more fees?--
NO. When you bought in CRE, you knew the deal. If you didn't like it, you shouldn't have bought your house. EVERYONE's property values increase or decrease based on the quality of these amenities. And yes, your property value will (and has) decrease if the quality of the lake, airport, or beach is poor. As a lake dweller, I'd agree to pay more money to improve the lake... but then all the entrances and access points to the lake will be closed and fenced off so you can't use it. But that's not possible because everyone who owns property in CRE has a legal and equal share of ownership of the lake, airport, and other amenities. If you're not using these, Why Not? Grab a kayak or canoe and paddle on the lake... enjoy sighting the many eagles, osprey, and heron. Get your children to participate in the Junior Pilot program. Take a walk on the beach or fish on the bay. Rockfish are running now. Have a picnic.
The Covenants --
Take action to elect a board who is willing to tackle this issue. But, the board members mostly run unopposed every year.
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Rates already raised
Wondered if anyone was aware that rates have already been raised....CRE worked it with the county to tax us an extra $350.00 that goes directly to the CRE through your county taxes....that is seperate from the $350 "DUES" that we pay. This will be reflected in your county taxes.
By laws or covenants cannot be changed unless they have a 50 + 1 vote of the entire community.....right now they are working on converting us to a municipality.
Wondered if anyone was aware that rates have already been raised....CRE worked it with the county to tax us an extra $350.00 that goes directly to the CRE through your county taxes....that is seperate from the $350 "DUES" that we pay. This will be reflected in your county taxes.
By laws or covenants cannot be changed unless they have a 50 + 1 vote of the entire community.....right now they are working on converting us to a municipality.
ladyhawk
New Member
There is a lot wrong in POACRE, there are some people in here that try to do for the better good of all but then there people with their own agendas that continue to poison any attempt at making things better for our community...
June
ladyhawk
New Member
To ALL
I apologize for my rant. My issue is when someone backs others up then changes their mind. It was Hot Coffees idea to get rid of the RoundUp Times and go electronic. Prior to the elections we were trying to determine if we had the funding to bring it back in print and if not, we were willing to cut funding elsewhere if we had to.
As far as the other issues POACRE has, I was not aware that they were bringing the beach patrols back. I am concerned, because we don't know what the status of our Lake is. I would try to update you but can't due to my resignation on the Lake Preservation Committee and Facilities Committee. I didn't have the time to continue to help in finding the answers, and no single individual can which is what makes communications and community so important..
What I do know is that I pay my fees and have the same concerns as everyone else with where the money is going, but I also don't have the time it takes to be involved. I'm sure many of you are in the same position...
A municipality may not be a bad thing if the infrastructure is put into place properly, which takes more time.. I applaud those that have taken the time to find the information they have, but we need figures. We need to know what monies are brought in, determine the infrastructure needs and then do a cost comparison for those services so fees (taxes) can be set to provide for them.
We need to know that we have the security forces, what will that cost? What will it cost for a commission?
The right people don't do these things for free. Because of the costs we will have less control over those fees and who will be the ones to set those...? You will still be at the mercy of someone..
June
I apologize for my rant. My issue is when someone backs others up then changes their mind. It was Hot Coffees idea to get rid of the RoundUp Times and go electronic. Prior to the elections we were trying to determine if we had the funding to bring it back in print and if not, we were willing to cut funding elsewhere if we had to.
As far as the other issues POACRE has, I was not aware that they were bringing the beach patrols back. I am concerned, because we don't know what the status of our Lake is. I would try to update you but can't due to my resignation on the Lake Preservation Committee and Facilities Committee. I didn't have the time to continue to help in finding the answers, and no single individual can which is what makes communications and community so important..
What I do know is that I pay my fees and have the same concerns as everyone else with where the money is going, but I also don't have the time it takes to be involved. I'm sure many of you are in the same position...
A municipality may not be a bad thing if the infrastructure is put into place properly, which takes more time.. I applaud those that have taken the time to find the information they have, but we need figures. We need to know what monies are brought in, determine the infrastructure needs and then do a cost comparison for those services so fees (taxes) can be set to provide for them.
We need to know that we have the security forces, what will that cost? What will it cost for a commission?
The right people don't do these things for free. Because of the costs we will have less control over those fees and who will be the ones to set those...? You will still be at the mercy of someone..
June
hotcoffee
New Member
OK... yes... I did vote to stop the publication.
I was one of the people who fell into the pit after joining the board.... I heard all the same rhetoric and fell into step doing the same stuff that had been done before while hoping for better results.... and to be fair... we had the open forum then on poacre.org... and the corkboard... and we were opening an upgraded web site.... it was a cost saving move... that didn't work... so I was part of the group who were trying to bring it back...
What you fail to state, June, is that staff doesn't like to do the Round Up Times because it takes too much of their precious time.
The website is not open and it's stale!
The beach patrol is not a bad idea... Most of the members appreciate the beach patrol... that was cut by the previous board [that didn't get their $109 rate increase]....but the previous poster was right... why not let security do it.... after all... it is what they are hired for.... the protection of our amenities... too bad when it's really time for them to do their job, they need to hire a whole new crew to do it....
Let's be fair here June.... you have been giving your time for years.... Let's be a little more fair June... you have horses at the stables and a plane at the airport.... so you are one of those who should be volunteering more.... the problem is... there are thousands of others who don't have the fine life... and we don't get the daily benefit you do.
Yep... a municipality is the answer for you and yours. If there was a municipality you and yours could just raise the taxes without having to go to vote....
We don't need security forces.... The gates are down... the good ol' boy society just refuses to believe that this is not a gated private community anymore.... one the gates came down... we became just any other community with roads to pave and beaches to upkeep.... The stables [thank goodness] pay for their own upkeep... unless you count the improvements they want....
June... really... have you really looked around the community? There are people in here who have a home that is on a street that is never going to be paved... yet they have to pay the same as those who live on a paved road enjoying the grace and beauty of a water community without having to bake in the sun on a beach in desperate need of repair and maintenance while board members [who said they would work to change things] bicker over the whale in the cliffs they never get to see.....
June.... people can't afford the mortgage they have... people are having a hard time putting food on the table.... and quite frankly... the community doesn't offer the same benefits to everyone.... the restructuring of any HOA is only fair....
The restructure of the fee schedule is already drawn somewhat.... if you are water view or water front... pay... if your road is paved... pay.... if you are within a block of the beach or the cliffs...pay.... if you have a horse at the stables pay.... if you use the dog park [what a joke] ... pay... if you want to pay... pay.... but if you don't.... then you should only pay the road fee [and not even that if some goof ball at the Roads Committee tells you that you will never ever have a paved road]... There's the base.... whatcha think....
By the way... I might as well make it loud and clear... yep... it's me... Becky Tice [residentofcre] I did change my screen name because those who knew I was working to this restructuring of CRE and didn't like it were bullying me....I wanted to work quietly until I had it down to a plan....
yes... most are told there is an HOA fee... but some are told they will get a paved road when they won't ... some are old they will have a lake to play in... and as June reminded us... they may not.... but all are paying to keep people employed who basically sit around without even turning on the lights in their office for the full eight hours...and all are paying to maintain the amenities that only a few get to enjoy....
Are you benefiting from CRE? Then pay the dues.... I plan to pay mine.... and vote so I can change things....
punchbuggy
New Member
I pay my dues every year on time and get zero information on how it is spent year in and year out. Then there's a mad scramble at a membership meeting to get everyone involved to block a fee increase that we've heard little about. I disagree that folks on the beaches or airport - stables should pay more and agree that we all knew what we were buying into when we moved here, however, the crazy circle of chasing our tails every year is getting us no where. If we had specifics we could make better decisions. It doesn't soley require volunteering for the board or a committee.....just communicate. I give to my community by volunteering at my church and children's schools. These are my neighbors who live in CRE.
I'll admit, earlier in the year I was going to go on a payment plan so that CRE wouldn't have my $$$ to waste but now, it's a financial hardship to keep up with necessities and we don't have a choice.
I've never expected my road to be paved but do expect the ones that are paved to be in decent shape. This is not the case and hasn't been for some time. Sadly, we are taxed to death and pay increased road fees every year and see only new projects undertaken. The membership is never asked how $$$ is to be spent for roads either.
I hope we're still here to see a municipality. I like the area and enjoy the amenities.
I'll admit, earlier in the year I was going to go on a payment plan so that CRE wouldn't have my $$$ to waste but now, it's a financial hardship to keep up with necessities and we don't have a choice.
I've never expected my road to be paved but do expect the ones that are paved to be in decent shape. This is not the case and hasn't been for some time. Sadly, we are taxed to death and pay increased road fees every year and see only new projects undertaken. The membership is never asked how $$$ is to be spent for roads either.
I hope we're still here to see a municipality. I like the area and enjoy the amenities.
ladyhawk
New Member
I completely agree with this statement. Which is the reason I pushed to have user fees to ALL the amenities, including the Lake. Those amenities that can not be self-sustaining should be used for another purpose. But then we still need administrative staff. At the very least three people full time... so maybe a percentage of fees could be placed in account to pay for administrative staff....
As far as the roads, I have to disagree in that everyone that lives in here has to use them from the main entrance to get to their homes. I guess the balance to that would be to let the STD fee be collected and do away with the Roads fee... I don't know how we would be able to charge an extra fee to those that lived on paved roads. Figure they have to deal more with the vandalism, speeding and everything else that goes on in here. That would be enough reason for me to leave them alone. Those of us that live on the unpaved roads don't have to put up with that so much so our lives are more peaceful....
Everyone has ideas and I think thats what we should be focusing on. I went after you only because I'm sick and tired of people groaning about what the stables and airport spend when most of the expenditures are collected by the users... I was trying to make that CLEAR which you failed to do.
My hope is for people to quit complaining about every little issue they have and help you help yourselves. All it takes is ideas getting thrown around and eventually a solid solution does manage to find its way to the top...
Working this way is what brings everyone together to become a community!
I'd love to see CRE back to a time when we can leave our windows wide open in the spring, not have to lock our doors and actually enjoy our neighbors... But until individuals come together as a whole, this will always be a pipe dream for all of us....
There are many words for people who think like me but most of you would choose to call me crazy or just plain stupid!
Regardless, I will never give up on that dream!
And I am very persistant and stubborn so it could still happen, I just have to figure out a way to get you guys to work together instead of bashing each other all time!
June
This will be my first post to the forum. I have lived in CRE for 5 years. I pay my fees on time and without question. We are a community!
I have had more time recently and wanted to get involved with the community. I have had no problems getting information on the details of all the issues everyone has brought up in this post. I am a quite member of the CRE and have no predispositions to the issues. I respect the work everyone at the CRE is doing including staff, board members and volunteers. (It is a thankless job for the volunteers.) I was considering volunteering for something, just to get involved. This website has changed my mind! We are neighbors but act and sound like national politicians.
I have started attending the board meetings and have found everyone wants to do the right thing. Personalities may not agree but I have not seen the nefarious angles everyone speaks of so often. The board members job and the community is much more complex than anyone gives credit.
I agree fees should not go up. Mainly due to the fact that no more than 600 votes have ever been counted in the CRE with the exception of 1988. That is unacceptable, but not the boards fault! It is the communities as a whole. Before we lay the great plans maybe we should get the community communicating as neighbors. I actually like mine. I bet there are allot of people with really good ideas that just do not have the time to spend digging into the details.
Fighting and questioning integrity will not get us anywhere.
Municipality or CRE is a semantics argument. We are still living next to each other. Covenants vs bylaws is the same. We are a community of people that all choose to live here. If a silly peace of paper is what we think is destroying it we are foolish.
I have had more time recently and wanted to get involved with the community. I have had no problems getting information on the details of all the issues everyone has brought up in this post. I am a quite member of the CRE and have no predispositions to the issues. I respect the work everyone at the CRE is doing including staff, board members and volunteers. (It is a thankless job for the volunteers.) I was considering volunteering for something, just to get involved. This website has changed my mind! We are neighbors but act and sound like national politicians.
I have started attending the board meetings and have found everyone wants to do the right thing. Personalities may not agree but I have not seen the nefarious angles everyone speaks of so often. The board members job and the community is much more complex than anyone gives credit.
I agree fees should not go up. Mainly due to the fact that no more than 600 votes have ever been counted in the CRE with the exception of 1988. That is unacceptable, but not the boards fault! It is the communities as a whole. Before we lay the great plans maybe we should get the community communicating as neighbors. I actually like mine. I bet there are allot of people with really good ideas that just do not have the time to spend digging into the details.
Fighting and questioning integrity will not get us anywhere.
Municipality or CRE is a semantics argument. We are still living next to each other. Covenants vs bylaws is the same. We are a community of people that all choose to live here. If a silly peace of paper is what we think is destroying it we are foolish.
ladyhawk
New Member
AN IDEA TO EVERYONES GOOD IDEAS ORGANIZED
If you see one you like, Post it. Then when you see another one, post it with the last one. I will volunteer to keep the information together. I can do this by the alias and after a set time (say six months) we could post the information here and see what everyone thinks (without the alias' of course). If everyone agrees we could take it to the sitting board, if they don't we give it another six months and review it again....
Eventually we could come up with a list to work with that will help us find a solution agreeable to the majority...
there are no immediate solutions, "a fine wine takes time"
Let's at least try it...
June