Creationism in our Public Schools

[Aimhigh2000]

From the Maryland Constitution

Art. 36. That as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to Him, all persons are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty; wherefore, no person ought by any law to be molested in his person or estate, on account of his religious persuasion, or profession, or for his religious practice, unless, under the color of religion, he shall disturb the good order, peace or safety of the State, or shall infringe the laws of morality, or injure others in their natural, civil or religious rights; nor ought any person to be compelled to frequent, or maintain, or contribute, unless on contract, to maintain, any place of worship, or any ministry; nor shall any person, otherwise competent, be deemed incompetent as a witness, or juror, on account of his religious belief; provided, he believes in the existence of God, and that under His dispensation such person will be held morally accountable for his acts, and be rewarded or punished therefor either in this world or in the world to come.

Nothing shall prohibit or require the making reference to belief in, reliance upon, or invoking the aid of God or a Supreme Being in any governmental or public document, proceeding, activity, ceremony, school, institution, or place.


Nothing in this article shall constitute an establishment of religion (amended by Chapter 558, Acts of 1970, ratified Nov. 3, 1970).


Oh, and from the first part of the MD constitution:

Art. 2. The Constitution of the United States, and the Laws made, or which shall be made, in pursuance thereof, and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, are, and shall be the Supreme Law of the State; and the Judges of this State, and all the People of this State, are, and shall be bound thereby; anything in the Constitution or Law of this State to the contrary notwithstanding.

 

[Tonio]

Art. 36. That as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to Him, all persons are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty;

I see that as contradictory. How can the state government assume there is a duty to worship a monothestic God and then claim a protection for religious liberty? I understand the writers' intent, since Maryland was founded as a haven for Catholics fleeing government-directed religious persecution in England. But it doesn't take into account that many Marylanders belong to non-monothestic religions. In the writers' defense, it probably didn't occur to them that centuries later, we would have Buddhists and Shintoists and Hindus living in our state.

 

[Makavide]

Just wondering

Creationism is a doctrine of one religion (Christianity). If you're going to teach one religion's creationist beliefs, wouldn't you have to teach the creationist beliefs of all the other religions?

My understanding of some of the worlds religion is limited, I have been trying to learn more about them when I can. So, with that in mind -

My understanding of creationism is that it is based on the first book of the Bible - Genesis. It is also my understanding that the first five books of the Bible were taken from the Torah, which is the basis of the Jewish religion. So wouldn't the Jewish population also believe in creationism? I also understand that Islam uses the Torah as part of it's beliefs as well (Mohammed's claim to be a descendant of Abraham), so wouldn't they also believe in creationism?

 

[Tonio]

My understanding of some of the worlds religion is limited, I have been trying to learn more about them when I can. So, with that in mind -

My understanding of creationism is that it is based on the first book of the Bible - Genesis. It is also my understanding that the first five books of the Bible were taken from the Torah, which is the basis of the Jewish religion. So wouldn't the Jewish population also believe in creationism? I also understand that Islam uses the Torah as part of it's beliefs as well (Mohammed's claim to be a descendant of Abraham), so wouldn't they also believe in creationism?

Good question. I'm not an expert in that field, either.

This page is interesting: http://adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

This chart shows Christianity, Judaism and Islam to have a slim majority in the world. The other half holds religious beliefs that don't follow the monothestic model (including atheism).

 

[Tonio]

It is also my understanding that the first five books of the Bible were taken from the Torah, which is the basis of the Jewish religion. So wouldn't the Jewish population also believe in creationism? I also understand that Islam uses the Torah as part of it's beliefs as well (Mohammed's claim to be a descendant of Abraham), so wouldn't they also believe in creationism?

I guess that depends on whether those Jews and Muslims believe in a literal interpretation of their holy books. There is some disagreement on that among the Christian denominations. So I would imagine the same to be true among the three branches of Judaism and among the two major branches of Islam.

Besides, I don't see what creationist doctrine has to do with the central tenents of any religion, Christianity or otherwise. A Christian believes that Jesus died for humanity's sins and rose from the dead three days later. How does the hypothesis of evolution contradict that belief? Is that a dumb question?

 

[Aimhigh2000]

Hmmm

Here is where I get confused. The Bible says that God created everything~ yadda yadda......But, in the bible or in Christianity (remember, I am aethist and not an expert) doesn't Jesus become the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Ghost)? So, if creationism is a theory of one Supremebeing creating everything, how do we then propose teaching it in school without getting into a religious debate? :shrug:

 

[2ndAmendment]

Besides, I don't see what creationist doctrine has to do with the central tenents of any religion, Christianity or otherwise. A Christian believes that Jesus died for humanity's sins and rose from the dead three days later. How does the hypothesis of evolution contradict that belief? Is that a dumb question?

While the sacrifice of God as man, Y'shua (Jesus), burial, resurrection, and ascension and promise of eternal life is the most important and central belief in Christianity, a Christian also believes in the Old Testament. The account of creation in Genesis is or should be as sacred and believed by a Christian as the account of salvation. If one part of the Bible is not trustworthy then what makes another part trustworthy? The problem arises when a person tries to decide for himself what is true and false about the Bible. Since the Bible states that all scripture in the Bible is the inspired word of God, if a person says they don't believe in part of the Bible, they are calling God a liar. Not a good thing from my perspective.

 

[2ndAmendment]

My understanding of creationism is that it is based on the first book of the Bible - Genesis. It is also my understanding that the first five books of the Bible were taken from the Torah, which is the basis of the Jewish religion. So wouldn't the Jewish population also believe in creationism? I also understand that Islam uses the Torah as part of it's beliefs as well (Mohammed's claim to be a descendant of Abraham), so wouldn't they also believe in creationism?

I can't say for Islam, but the Christians worship the same God as the Jews, Y'howah (YHWH or Jehovah [no J in Hebrew so I don't use this]) and also believe the same scriptures of creation.

 

[UrbanPancake]

While the sacrifice of God as man, Y'shua (Jesus), burial, resurrection, and ascension and promise of eternal life is the most important and central belief in Christianity, a Christian also believes in the Old Testament. The account of creation in Genesis is or should be as sacred and believed by a Christian as the account of salvation. If one part of the Bible is not trustworthy then what makes another part trustworthy? The problem arises when a person tries to decide for himself what is true and false about the Bible. Since the Bible states that all scripture in the Bible is the inspired word of God, if a person says the don't believe in part of the Bible, they are calling God a liar. Not a good thing from my perspective.

Did God write the Bible? I thought man wrote the Bible? You said it's the inspired word from God. I can sit here and write bullsh*t and say it was word inspired by God. Would you believe me?

 

[2ndAmendment]

Here is where I get confused. The Bible says that God created everything~ yadda yadda......But, in the bible or in Christianity (remember, I am aethist and not an expert) doesn't Jesus become the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Ghost)? So, if creationism is a theory of one Supremebeing creating everything, how do we then propose teaching it in school without getting into a religious debate? :shrug:

As I read the Bible, the Father says He is ONE God in the Old Testament, Jesus says there is one God and says He is the Father incarnate, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God; three aspects of the same one God. It is just as you, I, and everyone else have two aspects, physical and spiritual; we lack the power to incarnate ourselves as another human through spiritual means.

You will not find the word trinity anywhere in the Bible. The concept of the trinity did not come about until the 4th century when Emperor Constantine trying to use the Christian church for political reason along with Pope St.Silvester I (314 -335 AD) came up with the beginnings of idea of the trinity at the Council of Nicaea in 325. The actual doctrine of the trinity was not confirmed until the Council of Constantinople in 381 and even then was not widely accepted. This is a matter of history, not opinion.

 

[ylexot]

It is just as you, I, and everyone else have two aspects, physical and spiritual

I always thought we had three aspects: mental, physical, and spiritual.

 

[Tonio]

Did God write the Bible? I thought man wrote the Bible? You said it's the inspired word from God. I can sit here and write bullsh*t and say it was word inspired by God. Would you believe me?

Urban, would you please debate this without insulting other people's religious beliefs? I believe much of the Old Testament is metaphor instead of literal truth, but I don't expect everyone to share that belief. A person's religious beliefs don't have anything to do with his or her level of intelligence.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I always thought we had three aspects: mental, physical, and spiritual.

I always considered the mental aspect as part of the physical since it has to do with using the brain. I can see that thought could be considered as a separate aspect.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Urban, would you please debate this without insulting other people's religious beliefs? I believe much of the Old Testament is metaphor instead of literal truth, but I don't expect everyone to share that belief. A person's religious beliefs don't have anything to do with his or her level of intelligence.

Thanks, but it is OK. I ignore him. His vitriolic hatred of everything and everyone that does not align with his point of view has completely turned me off to him. I wish others would ignore him too. UP is like an annoying itch that just won't seem to go away, but eventually, if you stop scratching the itch, it does go away. If UP gets no responses, I am sure the fun of this place would be gone for UP eventually.

 

[Tonio]

Thanks, but it is OK. I ignore him. His vitriolic hatred of everything and everyone that does not align with his point of view has completely turned me off to him. I wish others would ignore him too. UP is like an annoying itch that just won't seem to go away, but eventually, if you stop scratching the itch, it does go away. If UP gets no responses, I am sure the fun of this place would be gone for UP eventually.

No problem. I tend to agree. BTW, who is "Burt" in your signature? Reynolds? Lancaster?

 

[2ndAmendment]

No problem. I tend to agree. BTW, who is "Burt" in your signature? Reynolds? Lancaster?

Gummer from Tremors.

 

[aps45819]

"
In Oklahoma and Alabama, creationists inserted disclaimers into biology textbooks which cast doubt on evolution. In 1999, school boards in Arizona, Alabama, Illinois, New Mexico, Texas and Nebraska tried to modify the teaching of evolution, in some cases trying to have it excised from the state standards.

That's what happens when you let liberals like Clinton in the white house.

 

[Aimhigh2000]

Autos

Isn't it Florida and Kansas (or a mid-western state) that made Mitsubishi change the name of their car. I thought it was Mitsubishi. They have a car called the Evolution, but in Florida and another state, they have to call it the Creationist or something. Let me see if I can find the article, but isn't that going a bit too far? I mean, to make a car manufacturer change what it calls something?

 

[huntr1]

Isn't it Florida and Kansas (or a mid-western state) that made Mitsubishi change the name of their car. I thought it was Mitsubishi. They have a car called the Evolution, but in Florida and another state, they have to call it the Creationist or something. Let me see if I can find the article, but isn't that going a bit too far? I mean, to make a car manufacturer change what it calls something?

Yep, you STILL seem like an idiot to me.

 

[huntr1]

Gummer from Tremors.

I knew that. Makes you look at Mr. Keeton in a whole new light don't it.