seekeroftruth
Well-Known Member
Daniel 8:1 In the third year of King Belshazzar’s reign, I, Daniel, had a vision, after the one that had already appeared to me. 2 In my vision I saw myself in the citadel of Susa in the province of Elam; in the vision I was beside the Ulai Canal. 3 I looked up, and there before me was a ram with two horns, standing beside the canal, and the horns were long. One of the horns was longer than the other but grew up later. 4 I watched the ram as it charged toward the west and the north and the south. No animal could stand against it, and none could rescue from its power. It did as it pleased and became great.
5 As I was thinking about this, suddenly a goat with a prominent horn between its eyes came from the west, crossing the whole earth without touching the ground. 6 It came toward the two-horned ram I had seen standing beside the canal and charged at it in great rage. 7 I saw it attack the ram furiously, striking the ram and shattering its two horns. The ram was powerless to stand against it; the goat knocked it to the ground and trampled on it, and none could rescue the ram from its power. 8 The goat became very great, but at the height of its power the large horn was broken off, and in its place four prominent horns grew up toward the four winds of heaven.
9 Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land. 10 It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them. 11 It set itself up to be as great as the commander of the army of the Lord; it took away the daily sacrifice from the Lord, and his sanctuary was thrown down. 12 Because of rebellion, the Lord’s people[a] and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?”
14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”
15 While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and trying to understand it, there before me stood one who looked like a man. 16 And I heard a man’s voice from the Ulai calling, “Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision.”
17 As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. “Son of man,”[b] he said to me, “understand that the vision concerns the time of the end.”
18 While he was speaking to me, I was in a deep sleep, with my face to the ground. Then he touched me and raised me to my feet.
19 He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end.[c] 20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king. 22 The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power.
23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise. 24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy those who are mighty, the holy people. 25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.
26 “The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future.”
27 I, Daniel, was worn out. I lay exhausted for several days. Then I got up and went about the king’s business. I was appalled by the vision; it was beyond understanding.
a. Daniel 8:12 Or rebellion, the armies
b. Daniel 8:17 The Hebrew phrase ben adam means human being. The phrase son of man is retained as a form of address here because of its possible association with “Son of Man” in the New Testament.
c. Daniel 8:19 Or because the end will be at the appointed time
So.... who is the master of intrigue? Now the story [IMHO] doesn't need translation..... but the explanation.... that could use a little clarification. This is from the easy English site.
Daniel saw the dream but he did not understand it. Then he saw someone who seemed like a man. It was the angel Gabriel. (Gabriel was the angel who appeared to Zechariah and to Mary. He told them that they would have sons. See Luke 1:19, 26.)
Daniel was very scared and he fell down. Gabriel told him that he must understand the dream. He said that it was about the end of time. Then Daniel started to sleep, but Gabriel made him stand up. Gabriel promised to tell Daniel what would happen in the future. God was angry, but only for a certain time. Gabriel would tell Daniel about that time.
Gabriel told Daniel that the animals meant kingdoms. The first animal was the male sheep. The first kingdom would be the kingdom of Media and Persia. This kingdom started when king Belshazzar died. The first horn was probably the Medes. Later the Persians became stronger. Maybe they were the second horn.
The male goat meant the kingdom of Greece. The goat defeated the sheep. The army of Greece defeated the army of Media and Persia. Gabriel said that the big horn meant the first king. The first king was Alexander the Great. He was very powerful. But he died when he was still young. In Daniel’s dream, the large horn broke when the goat was very great.
When Alexander died, his kingdom became four kingdoms. They were not as powerful. In the dream, four horns replace the large horn. Gabriel said that the four horns meant four kingdoms that were not as powerful.
Then a little horn grew out of one of the four horns. It became powerful, even in the country that God had given to his people. It became very proud. It opposed God and it stopped the daily sacrifices. It made the people do wicked things. It was successful in all that it did.
Gabriel said that this was another king. This was a very cruel king. He cheated and told lies. This king may have been Antiochus Epiphanes. He became king about 170 years before Christ was born. He hated the people who were loyal to God. He changed their laws. He did not allow them to make sacrifices to God. This lasted for about 6 years. After about 3 years, he ruined God’s house.
Gabriel said that this king had power, but it was not his own power. God allowed him to be cruel, but only for a certain time. Then God ended his life.
In chapter 7, we read about another little horn. This was also a king. He will come from the fourth kingdom. He will come at the end of the world. He too will hate God’s people. Then God will kill him. Then God will give the kingdom to his own people.
Antiochus Epiphanes was also a little horn who hated God’s people. But he did not come at the end of the world. He came from the third kingdom and he was king before the time of Jesus. The story of Antiochus Epiphanes shows us what the evil king at the end of the world will be like.
This is from bibletrack.org.Chapter 8 contains a prophecy that has already been fulfilled. This time Daniel's vision involves a ram and a goat. Here, however, only two of the four kingdoms of Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 are in view - the Medo-Persian and the Greek.
"Horns" are key words in this vision; the two horns of the ram represent the coalition of the Medes and the Persians. The single horn of the goat represents the kingdom of Alexander the Great who overcame the Medo-Persian empire in verse 7. However, after leaving no heir to his kingdom, Alexander's Greek Empire was divided into four separate kingdoms after his death. This is represented by the horn in verse 8 being broken off and four horns replacing it.
It was the successor to one of those four kingdoms about which this vision is written over 400 years before it was to take place. This successor to one of the four portions of the Greek Empire was Antiochus Epiphanes IV. He was a weasel of a man who wreaked havoc on the Jews in Jerusalem after going to war and being soundly defeated in Egypt. On his return through Israel in 167 B.C., he desecrated the temple by offering a pig on the altar there and forced the Jews to offer pigs as sacrifices and eat swine meat...or die; he was determined to replace their Jewish culture with Greek culture. Daniel's reference to 2,300 in verse 14 could mean the 2,300 morning and evening sacrifices that were desecrated or could refer to the number of days. We don't know the exact number of days this ordeal took place (1,150 or 2,300 days). This all happened during the Maccabean period between the Old Testament and New Testament. These events are well documented in the apocryphal historical books of I and II Maccabees. While these books are not part of the canon of divinely-inspired scripture, no serious scholar doubts the historical authenticity of the writings, nor do they dispute the accuracy of the events as they are portrayed.
Well... I still don't really know who the man of intrigue is. I can see why Gabriel told Daniel to keep it to himself.... because humans aren't ready for this. I've only got an online Bible and some online commentary.... but I have the feeling that I could read a hundred different commentaries and the man of Intrigue will be described a hundred different ways. Is he a wicked king or the antichrist? I simply can't figure that out.
There are plenty of commentaries about when all this will happen. That 2300 days has been calculated innumerable times. Some of the commentaries have the same problem with "mornings and evenings" that has been popping up in a thread titled Matthew 12:40. Some say the 2300 days is really only 1150 days. So if the scholars can't even agree on that.... who is going to properly identify the man of intrigue in verse 23?
I hope I am wrong about my place in time concerning all of these visions. It looks like the anti-christ is already here..... but that can't be so.... according to what I've read.... there will be peace in the middle east.... and then a devastating earthquake that reshapes the earth.... and then a new Temple will come about either by design or divine intervention...... and Jesus will reign. So where does the anti-christ fit in? Is he the instigator of the peace agreement, bringing on the final battle?
If he's not here.... just how mean does the earth have to be before God puts that last battle on the calendar?
