Death of a Pope goes high-tech

[jazz lady]

Interesting...

For centuries, one of the surest signs that a pope had died was the closing of the massive Bronze Door beneath a portico off St. Peter's Square. But the first word of John Paul II's death came in an e-mail.

...

The formal Vatican tradition goes like this:




When a pope dies, the prefect of the papal household, currently American Archbishop James Harvey, tells the camerlengo, or chamberlain, who is the most important official running the Holy See in the period between the death of a pope and the election of a new one.



The camerlengo, now Cardinal Eduardo Martinez Somalo of Spain, must then verify the death — a process that in the past was done by striking the forehead of the pope with a silver hammer. The camerlengo then calls out to the pope three times by his baptismal name -- Karol, Karol, Karol. When the pope does not respond, the camerlengo then announces "the pope is dead."



The camerlengo then uses the silver hammer to smash the pope's ring, the "ring of the fisherman," to preclude forgery of official documents.



He then tells the vicar of Rome, who then informs the people of the city.

The prefect of the papal household then tells the dean of the College of Cardinals, now Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who then formally informs the rest of the college, ambassadors accredited to the Holy See, and heads of state around the world.

The rest of the story

 

[willie]

The camerlengo, now Cardinal Eduardo Martinez Somalo of Spain, must then verify the death — a process that in the past was done by striking the forehead of the pope with a silver hammer.
How far in the past?

 

[jazz lady]

The camerlengo, now Cardinal Eduardo Martinez Somalo of Spain, must then verify the death — a process that in the past was done by striking the forehead of the pope with a silver hammer.
How far in the past?

We were talking about this last night and wondering if they still did it. It seems a useless holdover of an arcane tradition made obsolete by modern medicine.

 

[Ken King]

It seems a useless holdover of an arcane tradition made obsolete

You're talking about religion, right? Isn't that the epitome of arcane tradition?

 

[jazz lady]

You're talking about religion, right? Isn't that the epitome of arcane tradition?

Too true. I guess if they got rid of 'em all, there wouldn't be anything left. :shrug:

 

[virgovictoria]

We were talking about this last night and wondering if they still did it. It seems a useless holdover of an arcane tradition made obsolete by modern medicine.

There are those who have turned their very essence over to religion and have used it for direction, guidance, and will. Discussion of Catholisicm and the tenets of such won't be ironed out now, nor should they, IMHO. The process taking place has little or nothing to do with medicine anymore - but with the papal process and legacy... tradition...

Sacred

 

[jazz lady]

There are those who have turned their very essence over to religion and have used it for direction, guidance, and will. Discussion of Catholisicm and the tenets of such won't be ironed out now, nor should they, IMHO. The process taking place has little or nothing to do with medicine anymore - but with the papal process and legacy... tradition...

Sacred

I completely understand that. But if this is so, then shouldn't they have announced his death in the traditional method rather than sending an email if they were concerned about keeping the papal process pure? I am not knocking their traditions in the least, other than wondering why they are adhering to some and ignoring others. :shrug:

 

[Ken King]

I completely understand that. But if this is so, then shouldn't they have announced his death in the traditional method rather than sending an email if they were concerned about keeping the papal process pure? I am not knocking their traditions in the least, other than wondering why they are adhering to some and ignoring others. :shrug:

Hasn't the notice always been by the fastest available method of the time?

 

[virgovictoria]

I completely understand that. But if this is so, then shouldn't they have announced his death in the traditional method rather than sending an email if they were concerned about keeping the papal process pure? I am not knocking their traditions in the least, other than wondering why they are adhering to some and ignoring others. :shrug:

As I was hitting "submit reply" - that pesky little portion - about it being an email, caught my eye again...

What the eff do I know... I just know that the man and the religion and it's antiquities have helped an awful lot of people remain humane, kind, patient, faithful, giving, moral and a little frightened.... I can't not express enough respect for John Paul II.

I don't even know where I stand religiously, but I shake my head around and think, is it a good thing that religion CAN reach more people, even insipidiously via email? Obviously, we generally hear the dirty horrid news... media doesn't get rich on every day heart swells... but loads up on victimized little boys by men in cloth. Which, if I looked up the percentages is probably 1/1000 of a percent of that of what fathers do to their own son.

But I digress. Back to the email thing... If it weren't for you posting, I may have not been refreshed... :shrug:

 

[jazz lady]

Hasn't the notice always been by the fastest available method of the time?

I have no idea, other than what the article states. It outlines the traditional Vatican way of notifying of a pope's death.

It also notes "that marked a stark departure from the centuries-old traditions of one of the world's most enduring institutions, the Roman Catholic Church." It also says the tradition was ignored in 1978, too.

I just thought it was interesting that high-tech communication methods have enhanced the process of letting the world know of the Pope's passing, nothing more.

 

[Ken King]

I have no idea, other than what the article states. It outlines the traditional Vatican way of notifying of a pope's death.

It also notes "that marked a stark departure from the centuries-old traditions of one of the world's most enduring institutions, the Roman Catholic Church." It also says the tradition was ignored in 1978, too.

I just thought it was interesting that high-tech communication methods have enhanced the process of letting the world know of the Pope's passing, nothing more.

Well I am by no means knowledgeable of the tradition, but if it was centuries old then it would have to be a hand delivered letter or pigeon notes, wouldn't it? I can understand the church departing from that as Cardinals and Bishops are spread all over the world a little more then they were a few centuries ago.

 

[Lenny]

I have no idea, other than what the article states. It outlines the traditional Vatican way of notifying of a pope's death.

It also notes "that marked a stark departure from the centuries-old traditions of one of the world's most enduring institutions, the Roman Catholic Church." It also says the tradition was ignored in 1978, too.

I just thought it was interesting that high-tech communication methods have enhanced the process of letting the world know of the Pope's passing, nothing more.

The processes are allowed to run in parallel, right? I mean, the traditional "Bronze Door" message works for the people standing outside the Vatican (since few will have e-mail). The e-mail lets W know he can fire up the engines to Air Force One.

 

[jazz lady]

The processes are allowed to run in parallel, right? I mean, the traditional "Bronze Door" message works for the people standing outside the Vatican (since few will have e-mail). The e-mail lets W know he can fire up the engines to Air Force One.

But since he died at night AFTER the doors were closed at 8, it couldn't work. I wonder how they let them know.

I, as a computer nerd, just found it fascinating that technology has touched even this and is enhancing the traditions of the Vatican.

 

[virgovictoria]

I have no idea, other than what the article states. It outlines the traditional Vatican way of notifying of a pope's death.

It also notes "that marked a stark departure from the centuries-old traditions of one of the world's most enduring institutions, the Roman Catholic Church." It also says the tradition was ignored in 1978, too.

I just thought it was interesting that high-tech communication methods have enhanced the process of letting the world know of the Pope's passing, nothing more.

I think I just woke up on the wrong side of my cave this morning! I am reading out of context and not posting adequate counter-discussion. I typically try to "choose my battles" and I don't even have one to choose here.

The other day, someone posted a thread "Death Watch Mania" and it irritated me. The Shiavo thread went around and over me until a couple of details materialized that evoked some fighter instinct. Shiavo, to me was a thought-provoking, statute-changing, law-amending (all possibilities) life story about a gal who left to hang on a little too long for the sake of law and heartstrings and pursestrings (and media).. Briefly summarized. The details that stuck to my bones weren't even investigated, materialized or given their due.

The Pope, however, exceeds most of humanity, just by what he represents by being who he is and I just let my hackles rise (from the other day). With the Pope, I thought it disrespectful in its highest form, to put him in the same category on the other thread and it stuck with me I guess.

So, sorry Jazz. I am just a big poopyhead... I need sunshine.

 

[jazz lady]

So, sorry Jazz. I am just a big poopyhead... I need sunshine.

It's okay. I think we ALL could use some sunshine.

Although I'm not Catholic, I'm respectful of their traditions and was purely looking at it from a technology standpoint. I was not poking fun or diminishing his death in any way. I always find it interesting when technology is used for something new.

 

[jazz lady]

I think I found the answers

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - [size=-1]It took just minutes for the Vatican to alert the world's media of Pope John Paul's death -- using text messages and email so the 2,000-year-old Church could meet the new demands of real-time news. [/size]
[size=-1]
Just a quarter of an hour after the Pope was pronounced dead Saturday at 9:37 p.m., the Vatican sent journalists an SMS message alerting them to a pending statement.

Television networks across the globe were already on standby a minute later when the email communique was beamed to a sea of state-of-the-art handheld computers, purchased by journalists at the suggestion of the Vatican.

"The Holy father died this evening at 21:37 in his private apartment," it said, in a simple Word document.

TV spectators across the globe learned of the Pope's death even before the thousands of faithful gathered in prayer below the Pope's window in St. Peter's Square.

Archbishop Leonardo Sandri only informed them minutes later and their reaction -- a long round of applause, an Italian custom -- was captured on television in real time.

...

The Pope himself wrote in a February letter that the Church should not be shy of using the media, including the Internet, to spread its message, saying the "mass media can and must promote justice and solidarity."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=575&ncid=738&e=7&u=/nm/20050403/wr_nm/pope_internet_dc
[/size]

 

[virgovictoria]

It's okay. I think we ALL could use some sunshine.

Although I'm not Catholic, I'm respectful of their traditions and was purely looking at it from a technology standpoint. I was not poking fun or diminishing his death in any way. I always find it interesting when technology is used for something new.

But, you have to admit, using the word "POOPYHEAD" is kind of endearing, huh?

 

[jazz lady]

But, you have to admit, using the word "POOPYHEAD" is kind of endearing, huh?

It is. It's not the first time it's been used around here and definitely not the last.

 

[itsbob]

Interesting...


The rest of the story

This all sounds so very familiar!!

Maxwell

 

[itsbob]

and the problem with the brass portico, is they close that now every night at, I think they said, 8 PM, so if he died after 8 Rome time, what would be the first sign?

They thought shutting of the shutters at his window might do..