Death of the Camaro!

[glhs837]

And you can't sell MORE cars at inflated prices either. Catch 22?

See, those prices are not inflated. That's the problem with low volume single platform vehicles. No economies of scale.

General Motors Operating Margin 2010-2023 | GM

Current and historical operating margin for General Motors (GM) over the last 10 years. The current operating profit margin for General Motors as of December 31, 2023 is <strong>6.18%</strong>.

www.macrotrends.net

7% aint much. And I'll bet most of that comes from trucks and SUVs.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/08/gm-banks-17000-profit-per-pickup-on-average/

 

[OccamsRazor]

See, those prices are not inflated. That's the problem with low volume single platform vehicles. No economies of scale.

General Motors Operating Margin 2010-2023 | GM

Current and historical operating margin for General Motors (GM) over the last 10 years. The current operating profit margin for General Motors as of December 31, 2023 is <strong>6.18%</strong>.

www.macrotrends.net

7% aint much. And I'll bet most of that comes from trucks and SUVs.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/08/gm-banks-17000-profit-per-pickup-on-average/

I simply do not agree with the numbers that are being reported. The truck I bought in 2008 was new, off the lot for $38K. Today, the equivalent truck costs $62K. Almost 2x the price in 15 years.

 

[Hijinx]

I simply do not agree with the numbers that are being reported. The truck I bought in 2008 was new, off the lot for $38K. Today, the equivalent truck costs $62K. Almost 2x the price in 15 years.

Back in the day you could buy a pick up truck with rubber mats and a drive train for $1700 dollars.
Today they are 4 doors with automatic transmission electric locks and windows, 4 wheel drive, a sound system, TV on the back seat, and plush upholstery.. You can't hardly find a truck that is just for work without all of the frills.

 

[glhs837]

I simply do not agree with the numbers that are being reported. The truck I bought in 2008 was new, off the lot for $38K. Today, the equivalent truck costs $62K. Almost 2x the price in 15 years.

Tell me more about what you bought in 2008. Lariat feature set in 2008 a bit thin compared to the Lariat feature set these days. But we were not talking about trucks. We were talking about the Camaro.

 

[OccamsRazor]

Tell me more about what you bought in 2008. Lariat feature set in 2008 a bit thin compared to the Lariat feature set these days. But we were not talking about trucks. We were talking about the Camaro.

Prices for Cars, 2008-2023 ($38,000)​

According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, prices for new cars are 28.28% higher in 2023 versus 2008 (a $10,747.94 difference in value).

Between 2008 and 2023: Cars experienced an average inflation rate of 1.67% per year. In other words, cars costing $38,000 in the year 2008 would cost $48,747.94 in 2023 for an equivalent purchase.

Of course, this does not include any increased fees and "dealer markup" costs for chip shortages, etc.

 

[glhs837]

Prices for Cars, 2008-2023 ($38,000)​

According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, prices for new cars are 28.28% higher in 2023 versus 2008 (a $10,747.94 difference in value).

Between 2008 and 2023: Cars experienced an average inflation rate of 1.67% per year. In other words, cars costing $38,000 in the year 2008 would cost $48,747.94 in 2023 for an equivalent purchase.

Of course, this does not include any increased fees and "dealer markup" costs for chip shortages, etc.

Right Camaro from 2008 versus a Camaro from 2023. What's the level of technology and features between those two vehicles? How much more to the union workers who make that vehicle make how much the materials cost. I go back to the basic point. If Chevy was making money on them they wouldn't stop making them

 

[OccamsRazor]

I go back to the basic point. If Chevy was making money on them they wouldn't stop making them

I do not dispute this point. I am merely saying that dropping the prices and thus making a smaller margin of profit per vehicle may lead to higher sales and an overall larger profit.

 

[glhs837]

I do not dispute this point. I am merely saying that dropping the prices and thus making a smaller margin of profit per vehicle may lead to higher sales and an overall larger profit.

The thing is, on that car there most likely isn't any margin to drop. 50k is a tiny amount of cars. Supporting a manufacturing line for 50k cars a year is hard. When it doesn't share a line with other vehicles, its costly. The trucks have huge margins partially because platform/parts sharing. Are you suggesting they take some of that 17% margin on the trucks and SUVs to prop up the Camaro? Or only make 1% or 2% on the Camaro?

 

[OccamsRazor]

Are you suggesting they take some of that 17% margin on the trucks and SUVs to prop up the Camaro? Or only make 1% or 2% on the Camaro?

I am suggesting that they do what is needed to lower the costs of their vehicles to the purchaser. By doing this they will increase sales and their overall margin of gain. Bottom line is that they are not selling what they expected to sell at the price point they set. Only fixes for this is to lower the price point OR stop selling them.

 

[glhs837]

I am suggesting that they do what is needed to lower the costs of their vehicles to the purchaser. By doing this they will increase sales and their overall margin of gain. Bottom line is that they are not selling what they expected to sell at the price point they set. Only fixes for this is to lower the price point OR stop selling them.

The only way to lower costs is to either discontent, offer less features than competitor vehicles, or find a cheaper way to make them. The second is possible, Tesla has shown the way. But its not likely GM can adopt those techniques given legacy stovepipe, union resistance, and a multitier supplier system that restricts change and adds costs as each tier requires its own profit margin. So that's why they are killing it, they don't have available margin to give, if the remove features, people wont buy them, and they simply cannot institute the production processes to reduce build cost.

Heck, they have sold the Bolt for a multi thousand dollar loss per car for years and years now. Not sure who they justify that internally.

 

[OccamsRazor]

So that's why they are killing it, they don't have available margin to give, if the remove features, people wont buy them, and they simply cannot institute the production processes to reduce build cost.

I bet they would. Not everyone needs or wants lane assist, large touch screens, OnStar.. etc. A lot of people just want the nice looking car.

 

[Kyle]

I bet they would. Not everyone needs or wants lane assist, large touch screens, OnStar.. etc. A lot of people just want the nice looking car.

I want mine with phasers, photon, torpedoes, and a food replicator.

 

[DaSDGuy]

I want mine with phasers, photon, torpedoes, and a food replicator.

Front deflector shields would be handy in traffic.

 

[glhs837]

I bet they would. Not everyone needs or wants lane assist, large touch screens, OnStar.. etc. A lot of people just want the nice looking car.

Not everyone, true. But the key is that so few would actually choose such a configuration that you loose money selling that config when you figure the money spent stocking different parts and man-hours building. Another of Tesla's "lessons in profit margin" is that more build options costs you more than you think.

 

[OccamsRazor]

Not everyone, true. But the key is that so few would actually choose such a configuration that you loose money selling that config when you figure the money spent stocking different parts and man-hours building. Another of Tesla's "lessons in profit margin" is that more build options costs you more than you think.

To put it in political terms (as most on here only seem to grasp)

They are wanting to sell cars with Trump era economy prices to those living with Biden era economy woes.

 

[glhs837]

To put it in political terms (as most on here only seem to grasp)

They are wanting to sell cars with Trump era economy prices to those living with Biden era economy woes.

Their costs for everything has risen just like yours.

 

[phreddyp]

Been there, done that.

One such attempt in the tall grass of Sligo Creek Park landed on a yellowjacket nest.

Sligo creek played there a lot back in the day.

 

[Clem72]

Their costs for everything has risen just like yours.

Lithium and Cobalt both down about 20% so far this year. Bodes well for certain segments of car manufacturing.

 

[glhs837]

Lithium and Cobalt both down about 20% so far this year. Bodes well for certain segments of car manufacturing.

. Indeed. But not Camaros