Deep in the heart of taxes...

Taxing questions?

  • The way it is

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Vrailtax (national sales)

    Votes: 17 89.5%
  • Youtax

    Votes: 2 10.5%

  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .

Chain729

CageKicker Extraordinaire
It's no different except that it will become much more prevalent.
How do you figure? If I pay a bum to cut my grass, I know it ain't going on his income tax. If I buy a few things from a yard sale, or one of the guys on a car forum that makes custom parts on the side, it's not going on their income taxes. :shrug: Maybe I'm wrong, I just don't see it.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
...

When you said this, "everyone pays the same thing because everyone has ONE vote and everyone gets the same core benefits of citizenship". Isn't that what you said or did you mean something else?
...as it is, you must be 18 to vote in this US. Now, if it's not self evidently clear that parents would be expected to pay for their kids, then, yes, kids are part of your tax liability until they are 18 at which time they are adults and are responsible at that point, as an adult citizen of the US.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
...

It's no different except that it will become much more prevalent.
..it seems that the truths that are self evident aren't self evident until they are spelled out.

Not very many people are going to risk trouble over 6%. More would risk it over 40%.
 

ylexot

Super Genius
How do you figure? If I pay a bum to cut my grass, I know it ain't going on his income tax. If I buy a few things from a yard sale, or one of the guys on a car forum that makes custom parts on the side, it's not going on their income taxes. :shrug: Maybe I'm wrong, I just don't see it.
Yeah, that stuff will happen, but more people will do it. People see that $50 widget, make it themselves, and sell it for less because it is profitable. If that $50 widget now costs $75 because of the added tax, it just became $25 more profitable for someone to make and sell under the table. Some people can make that $50 widget for $30 and sell it for $40, but it just isn't worth it for $10. If they can now make it for $35 (including taxes on materials) and sell it for $65, it may be worth the $30 profit. See?

BTW, yard sale stuff wouldn't be taxed anyway. That stuff is taxed as part of the original purchase.
 

Chain729

CageKicker Extraordinaire
Yeah, that stuff will happen, but more people will do it. People see that $50 widget, make it themselves, and sell it for less because it is profitable. If that $50 widget now costs $75 because of the added tax, it just became $25 more profitable for someone to make and sell under the table. Some people can make that $50 widget for $30 and sell it for $40, but it just isn't worth it for $10. If they can now make it for $35 (including taxes on materials) and sell it for $65, it may be worth the $30 profit. See?

BTW, yard sale stuff wouldn't be taxed anyway. That stuff is taxed as part of the original purchase.
The numbers are a bit skewed, since widgets won't go up exactly old price plus new tax, but I see what you're saying.
 

Bann

Doris Day meets Lady Gaga
PREMO Member
National sales tax. As I've said before, I advocate the Fair Tax Plan layout. It's already in the form of a bill before Congress, so it wouldn't even be as hard to work out & get passed as a new bill might be.
 

Bann

Doris Day meets Lady Gaga
PREMO Member
Yes. I just wanted to highlight it in case people were skimming instead of reading your whole manifesto.

This is one of the problems with politicians, in my opinion: they drone on and on until their audience becomes so bored that they have no idea what the person is talking about. I'm into simple, concise points that I don't have to decipher or get a lawyer to explain to me.


:yay:

I can't figure out Larry's plan, I don't have the attention span this late to read it!

What about the illegals and foreign visitors to the country? If they pay a national sales tax, then the US can get income from a ton more sources than just the American people.

Larry, do you have anything similar in your plan? :tap:
 

Bann

Doris Day meets Lady Gaga
PREMO Member
...yes, I hear you. One of the problems with the electorate is short attention spans.

:lol:

:smack: Hey! After getting up at 5am, working all day, dealing with a teen & preteen- running here and there- my attention span is minimal! :lol:
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
...

:yay:

I can't figure out Larry's plan, I don't have the attention span this late to read it!

What about the illegals and foreign visitors to the country? If they pay a national sales tax, then the US can get income from a ton more sources than just the American people.

Larry, do you have anything similar in your plan? :tap:
...immigration reform is another issue. It seems to me a sovereign nation controls how many people it allows to come and work and become citizens.

So, yes, if you work here, you pay taxes here.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
...

I'm sorry - your plan sucks :shrug:

The people have spoken.
...my plan's greatest virtue is, like taking ones medicine, people hate it, but it is the most effective solution.

Your plan appeals, like candy, because people can take it or leave it. Being able to choose to finance or not finance ones own government should be instantly disqualified. Either we're all in this together. Or we're not. Fairness isn't a matter of choice. Something is either fair and equitable or it isn't.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
...my plan's greatest virtue is, like taking ones medicine, people hate it, but it is the most effective solution.
No, you're just stuck on it and can't admit you're wrong.

And if you honestly think everybody is stupid except for you...well...I don't know what to tell you.

:razz:
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
...

No, you're just stuck on it and can't admit you're wrong.

And if you honestly think everybody is stupid except for you...well...I don't know what to tell you.

:razz:
Your definition of 'right' and 'wrong' seems to be based on the poll and that's fine. You won the popularity contest.

If you think fair is stupid, OK.

If you like a plan that continues the cynicism, that's fine. Yours will do that in my opinion. You've already added exemptions in you plan and that makes it a simple matter of time, in my view, before more and more are granted and we're right back where we are today; congress serving various interests pleading for their special tax break.

So, have you decided on the % yet? Is it 35%, the minimum it has to be given your current slate of exemptions or will it be 60% or somewhere in between?
 

Chain729

CageKicker Extraordinaire
...my plan's greatest virtue is, like taking ones medicine, people hate it, but it is the most effective solution.

Your plan appeals, like candy, because people can take it or leave it. Being able to choose to finance or not finance ones own government should be instantly disqualified. Either we're all in this together. Or we're not. Fairness isn't a matter of choice. Something is either fair and equitable or it isn't.
Your plan would put thousands of currently middle-class people on the street. Are you going to increase the minimum wage substantially, so that people can pay their taxes AND eat? Or is it one or the other?
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Jesus...

Your plan would put thousands of currently middle-class people on the street. Are you going to increase the minimum wage substantially, so that people can pay their taxes AND eat? Or is it one or the other?
...H.

You people...

Let me ask you something;

If your company and every other company had 50% more payroll money on there hands, all the taxes they withhold and expense they put into playing government tax collection agent, do you think they would just keep it? Would it vanish into thin air? Or, would they give it to you?

They would give it to you or their competitor would and they'd lose you.


Let's say you make $75,000 a year now and take home $50 of that, or $4100 a month. The other $25,000 is withheld by them plus their share of your SS taxes plus their unemployment taxes, plus their payroll expenses. Every dollar they pay you costs them about $1.30 or more, so, you're $75,000 costs them another $22,500. Under my plan they would have the $22,500 plus what they directly withheld from you, about $25,000, meaning they would have an extra $47,500 on hand that they neither have to send to the government NOR spend to employ you.

They'd HAVE to give you the $25,000 right away. It came from your paycheck. If they don't give you the $22,500 a competitor will and they lose you. They're spending it now, so why wouldn't they just give it to you? They would.

So, you go from taking home $4100 a month to taking home $8125 a month.

Then you pay your taxes. And you pay attention to what your representatives are doing with YOUR money.

Same thing for the poor who take home maybe $6 of an $8 an hour wage. Eliminate the withholding and the employer expense to play government agent and, viola, they're taking home nearly $12 an hour.

Under my 10 year/2%/family of four plan, your share of taxes would be about $2,600 a month. You just got a 'raise' of over $4,000.

For the $8 an hour person, they're now taking home an extra $960 a month. They'd be short a great deal. If they are single, their taxes would be $670 a month. It will work out.

For a family of four, I don't believe for one second a family of four is living on one wage earner making $8 an hour. Call it two at $8. That's $2,600 a month in tax owed and they're taking home an extra $1,920. So, we're close.

$2,600 a month, for that family of four, is about $16 an hour raise for one worker a family would need to stay where they are now. $8 an hour for two workers. This is feasible.

The plan could allow for longer repayment schedules, but, we're still talking about economic growth from unshackling people from the status quo. And we're talking about increasing everyone's motivation to pay attention to their government.

it is perfectly feasible that we could successfully become a nation governed by the people, for the people and prosper.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
The median household income in the US is around $50,000.

A family of four, 2 adults and 2 children, with HHI of $50k would be paying next to nothing in income taxes right now, given their income bracket and exemptions. They are probably living fairly frugally, depending on what part of the country they live in.

They get the whole $50k under your plan, or $4100 a month. And you are asking them to pay $2400 of that in taxes each month. This leaves them with $1700 a month to house, feed, clothe and transport a family of four.

And you have just effectively cut their net income in half, according to my handy dandy payroll calculator.

PaycheckCity.com | Paycheck Calculator

Please feel free to show me where I'm wrong.
 
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