Dichotomy VS Trichotomy?

[Marie]

All,
I am curious as to how you see things, from reading scripture you could infer either, although only one can be correct. Di being body & soul Tri being body, soul & spirit.

I looked at this before in passing and never seriously gave it any thought and just adopted Trichotomy. There is one verse in scripture that list all three but we would need another verse saying the same thing to validate it.
<DIR>1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
</DIR>
The attached is a persuasive argument for Dichotomy, saying it was the historic view by Kim Riddlebarger.
Please vote and then tell me your reasons why. Id also be curious if this paper changes your thoughts.

 

[VoteJP]

Everybody gets saved on Judgment Day.

All,

I am curious as to how you see things, from reading scripture you could infer either, although only one can be correct. Di being body & soul Tri being body, soul & spirit.

My understanding is that we are not "tri" nor "di" but just one (1) as a singularity.

Of course I would have voted "Singularity" but it was not on the list.

The "spirit" is like electricity in that when it is turned off then it does not exist. So the person has a spirit of life like electricity that energizes the person, then at death the whole single person is completely dead.

No spirit or ghost or soul going off out of the person at death, because it is just like a light switch turned off and out goes the light.

This is shown in Genesis 2:7 link where God breathed into the Man the breath of life "and man became a living soul."

That says Man (male and female link) became a "living soul", and it does NOT say that the soul was some separate invisible spirit part of Man - no.

This is also why the scriptures tell of a "resurrection" because the people are dead (not living) and then people get resurrected back to life, because the soul is our own body and not some invisible thing inside of our body. Mark 12:25-27 and Jesus says the people are DEAD "dead" (not living as a spirit but dead) and THEN then after the resurrection the people are "as the angels" and that is AFTER after the resurrection and NOT before.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Do you like being wrong???
The spirit/soul is a living, non material entity. When it is with the body, the body has life. When it is not, the body dies. When & if the spirit re-enters it, the body becomes alive again. Jesus did it (Luke 8 v 53-55), Peter (Acts 9) & Paul (Acts 20)did it (through prayer) and others did too. Since you choose not to know or believe the Bible, you're mistaken here...again!

There is one verse in scripture that list all three but we would need another verse saying the same thing to validate it.

Who said that? A Bible verse can hold it's own.
Now, about the 2 or 3 thing:
The Bible speaks of the Spirit, Soul & body in many verses but, IMHO, I think the Spirit & Soul are the same or at least very similar...I've heard different opinions about the soul/spirit differences but none have convinced me that they're different. Only the verse about the Word of God being sharper than a 2 edged sword dividing even the soul & spirit (Hebrews 4 v 12) but we never hear of a Spirit going one way and a soul going another, right? They always go together and are the same when described. This isn't an issue of primary importance so we can disagree on it so I'd go for the Di, for what it's worth.

 

[Marie]

Do you like being wrong???
The spirit/soul is a living, non material entity. When it is with the body, the body has life. When it is not, the body dies. When & if the spirit re-enters it, the body becomes alive again. Jesus did it (Luke 8 v 53-55), Peter (Acts 9) & Paul (Acts 20)did it (through prayer) and others did too. Since you choose not to know or believe the Bible, you're mistaken here...again!

Who said that? A Bible verse can hold it's own.
Now, about the 2 or 3 thing:
The Bible speaks of the Spirit, Soul & body in many verses but, IMHO, I think the Spirit & Soul are the same or at least very similar...I've heard different opinions about the soul/spirit differences but none have convinced me that they're different. Only the verse about the Word of God being sharper than a 2 edged sword dividing even the soul & spirit (Hebrews 4 v 12) but we never hear of a Spirit going one way and a soul going another, right? They always go together and are the same when described. This isn't an issue of primary importance so we can disagree on it so I'd go for the Di, for what it's worth.

I didn't vote on it myself yet, as I have to study it some more. Like I said I just kind floated into that position without much thought.

Yes its a secondary issue so its not a big deal. On the other hand James is way out there going against everything Scripture teaches, so that is a big deal!

What I was trying to say is hermeneuticly we validate scripture with scripture, it may be another verse that says the same thing, or the principle is the same. I guess I didn't say that very well.

 

[ItalianScallion]

I didn't vote on it myself yet, as I have to study it some more. Like I said I just kind floated into that position without much thought.

Yes its a secondary issue so its not a big deal. On the other hand James is way out there going against everything Scripture teaches, so that is a big deal!

What I was trying to say is hermeneuticly we validate scripture with scripture, it may be another verse that says the same thing, or the principle is the same. I guess I didn't say that very well.

I didn't vote on it either because of my uncertainty.
Yes, in many cases that's true but not all Scripture needs other verses for "validation. We can definitely use some verses to interpret others.
James is a mess and, although he can have his own opinions, I can't sit by and let his blatant lies go uncountered.
(You didn't reply to my last PM...)

 

[VoteJP]

Megalomaniac.

I can't sit by and let his blatant lies go uncountered.

I do not see any reason to call it a "lie" as I do not see you as lying when you are mistaken.

People can and do have different beliefs and different religions and none of it is a lie.

Do you see your own beliefs or the doctrines of orthodox Christianity as so omnipotent and absolute that all others are liars?

 

[hvp05]

The "spirit" is like electricity in that when it is turned off then it does not exist. So the person has a spirit of life like electricity that energizes the person, then at death the whole single person is completely dead.

No spirit or ghost or soul going off out of the person at death, because it is just like a light switch turned off and out goes the light.

Interesting. A couple days ago in your Elections thread you said:

Everybody gets depressed to some degree, and we all get head aches, most people consider suicide at some point in life, and there really are strange voices and spirits floating around, and chemical imbalances often have logical reasons for existing, and only human being have such a super high mentality so that mental issues are uniquely human.

 

[VoteJP]

Megalomaniac.

Interesting. A couple days ago in your Elections thread you said:

If you have some thing to say then I do not see why you do not come straight out and say it instead of going around the point like that.

You must have that same dysfunction of seeing "lies" and "liars" because bringing over some other posting of mine does not make any sense to me.
I am happy to tell my beliefs and I am proud of my own interpretations and I figure you of all people would know that.

God is a spirit, and there are Angels and demons and Ghost in this world, but those are not dead people that have lost spirits or out of place souls floating around.

There is a big difference in a Ghost as opposed to claiming that Ghost is some dead person.

God is a spirit being but humans are physical beings.

 

[ItalianScallion]

I do not see any reason to call it a "lie" as I do not see you as lying when you are mistaken.
People can and do have different beliefs and different religions and none of it is a lie.
Do you see your own beliefs or the doctrines of orthodox Christianity as so omnipotent and absolute that all others are liars?

JP, if we differed on secondary issues, I would not get as upset about what you're saying, but you're wrong about things that are clearly explained in the Bible. Many of these things you say might cause viewers to be led astray, even into eternal "death". They have to be countered. I'd rather people be confused and search out the truth, than to believe your "lies" (yes lies) and feel saved when they're not. You're teachings are not only wrong, but very dangerous. Our soul or spirit IS immortal. It does not die like our bodies do and it IS invisible.
To answer your last question: YES! If anyone can believe whatever they want and still get to Heaven, then Jesus, Peter, Paul and a zillion other people need to apologize to the Mormons, JW's, New Agers, Wiccans, etc. for calling them cults of the lost.

 

[2ndAmendment]

After doing a little research, and by no means was it exhaustive, I think trichotomy. Since the Bible says the soul relates to mans' mortality (Luke 12:20) and the spirit is immortal. I think this is in line with God creating man in His own image. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and body, soul, and spirit.

But hey, I am in no way certain. And this is certainly in the noise when it comes to the gospel. I really don't think God is going to judge anyone fo getting this incorrect.

1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

If it isn't obvious, then we can ask.

 

[hvp05]

I do not see why you do not come straight out and say it instead of going around the point like that.

And others do not understand why you can not at least attempt to be consistent while you're making this stuff up as you go along. You regularly say one thing, then hours or days later say a contradictory thing. But you do like to be the "contrarian", so I reckon you enjoy defeating even yourself.

 

[PsyOps]

This is one of those concepts that I don’t give a whole lot of study to because understanding it makes very little difference in our salvation. But I would contend that the body is obviously our physical being. Our soul is our individual immortal life to go on to live in the spirit of God. The spirit is the whole of God; the entire encapsulation of all souls placed under God’s all-emcomapassing spirit. And God is far less concerned about our bodies than He is our souls.

In that sense pertaining to a dichotomy or trichotomy I would say our existence is dichotomous. Our bodies are only a physical container of our souls; of very little consequence to our eternity. But our souls are a smaller part of the whole spirit; which is God.

 

[VoteJP]

Megalomaniac.

Our soul or spirit IS immortal. It does not die like our bodies do and it IS invisible.

I already showed in my previous posting that Mankind was created as a "living soul" and not as a person having a soul, link HERE, so mine is given in the Bible while the other claim of an immortal soul is NOT in the Bible.

So here are some more Bible references:

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezekiel 18:4 Link.

The soul (the person) shall "die" and nothing else.

And if one did not get that point then it is repeated in Ezekiel 18:20 link:

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. KJV.

Not go to Heaven and not go to any Hell, because the soul (the person) shall die.

And then there is this:

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. KJV, Romans 6:23 link.

The "gift of eternal life" can not be true if one already has eternal life in an immortal soul, and the wages of sin can not be "death" unless the person actually dies. And of course the person does die and the only eternal life is at the resurrection where the person's "soul" (their body and life) are raised from the dead. One can not be raised from the "dead" unless we are in fact dead and not living as some spirit being. If people die and go to Heaven or Hell then there would be no sense in the resurrection of dead people, link.

The problem is in believing what Christianity teaches instead studying and learning what Jesus and the Bible teaches correctly.

Humans are not "2 parts" or "3 parts" as we are all just one single individual each as a singularity. And these Bible text are NOT given as "parables" and nothing to interpret as it is very plain and simple to see and to understand.

 

[ItalianScallion]

As usual, WRONG AGAIN! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
Death or to die in the Bible can be either physical or spiritual depending on the context of the passage. Spiritual death means eternal separation from God forever. Revelation 20 calls it the second death. The first death is a physical one.
And btw Jesus, the Bible & Christianity are inseparable.

 

[VoteJP]

Megalomaniac.

As usual, WRONG AGAIN! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
Death or to die in the Bible can be either physical or spiritual depending on the context of the passage. Spiritual death means eternal separation from God forever. Revelation 20 calls it the second death. The first death is a physical one.
And btw Jesus, the Bible & Christianity are inseparable.

Dead unto sin, Romans 6 Link HERE, is the spiritual death.

Not separation from God because spiritual death is closer to God, Romans 6.

And Revelations 20 saying "death" means that death unto sin, where everyone gets saved. The first resurrection they are already dead unto sin, and the second death are the last ones to be saved by death to sin.

There is no possibility of being separated from God as God is everywhere.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Dead unto sin, Romans 6 Link HERE, is the spiritual death.

Not separation from God because spiritual death is closer to God, Romans 6....

No it does not. It means we are to be dead to sin.

Romans 6: 2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

Your reading comprehension is terrible.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Not separation from God because spiritual death is closer to God, saying "death" means that death unto sin, where everyone gets saved. The first resurrection they are already dead unto sin, and the second death are the last ones to be saved by death to sin.
There is no possibility of being separated from God as God is everywhere.

No it does not. It means we are to be dead to sin. Your reading comprehension is terrible.

Who the heck did he get his theology from???

 

[VoteJP]

Megalomaniac.

Who the heck did he get his theology from???

I see that as a really big and important question because you and 2A and Marie and most Christians got all of yours and their theology from others and not from your self.

I do my own research, and I have personal (one to one) relationship with God, so my theology is my own.

It is clear that none of you have your own theology because you each just preach and claim the theology of other people and not of your selves.

In particular is the immortal soul and going to Heaven or Hell are doctrines from the old Catholic Church of the Roman Empire of Constantine.

I give specific Bible quotes with text and links with clearly said "the soul dies" Adam created as a "soul" and the "dead to sin" and "second death" does not mean any second life.

That is why none of you can effectively argue against my Biblical doctrines because mine really do come from the Bible, while your(s) doctrines come from the Churches.

The Church (Protestant or Nondenom or Catholic or cult) the Churches tell each of you what to believe and THEN then you go to the Bible to make those claims as true when the Bible really says as I tell it.

My doctrine comes from the scriptures and from God and from my own conscience, while your doctrine comes from the Church.

And if any of you were to correct your own doctrine, then you would be punished by the Church and by other so called Christians that hold onto the Church doctrines.

I say it is a matter of human fear, in that you are all so afraid of God and afraid of the truth and afraid of Hell and afraid of being ostracized, that you see and feel safety and safer by hiding in the group, so that then you each shun any real and personal relationship with the real Father in Heaven.

That is why in Revelations 18:4, God is said to say: "Come out of her my people" link, because that is a command and not a pleading, so all of you will come out eventually and THEN then you too will learn the truths and then receive the salvation which none of you have now.

 

[ItalianScallion]

^^^^^^ If this wasn't soo sad, it would be hilarious.
If you had the Spirit of God in you, you wouldn't make soo many wrong statements JP. The reason that you're views are different is because they're human in origin. The reason that the rest of us are "on the same page" is because we get our info from God's Word...You should try reading "the rest of the story". You'll find that your "beliefs" can't stand next to it.

 

[thatguy]

^^^^^^ If this wasn't soo sad, it would be hilarious.
If you had the Spirit of God in you, you wouldn't make soo many wrong statements JP. The reason that you're views are different is because they're human in origin. The reason that the rest of us are "on the same page" is because we get our info from God's Word...You should try reading "the rest of the story". You'll find that your "beliefs" can't stand next to it.

thats some funny shiat right there. the whole book is human in origin