Dog Questions

[SamSpade]

I've been thinking about a couple things --

We crate our pups at night. However, the 'pups' are now 8 months old and are about 50 pounds apiece. They still act like puppies - they chew, bark, play, romp - they're just BIG puppies now. But I think anyone looking at them would just think they were young DOGS.

Now, we crated them as small pups to be housetrained. They're fully trained now, with the exception of the female and her incontinence problem. It's not her fault, and she goes when she can, outside, but she often has "accidents". She goes back to the vet Friday for further examination.

What I'm wondering is - how old before I should stop crating them? I don't trust them to have free rein of the house while I'm asleep. That would be nice, but so far, they get into everything when I'm not watching - clothes, trash, anything they can get their mouth on. So I can't let them go free in the house. Downstairs is largely dog-proof, so I could let them go free downstairs. They DO have a doggie door, but I worry about them being able to freely go outside at night, at will - there's the pool, and I don't want them barking at night.

Do people crate their pups for a long time? They seem fine - and they like their crates just fine - we have a long running routine of giving them LOTS of treats every night when they go to bed, so simply saying the word "bedtime" sends them charging down the hall and waiting in their crates. They KNOW that word.

Another one - - but I may know the answer already. How old before they're ready for adult food? One person at the vet's office suggested as early as twelve weeks. I thought that was way early, but at 8-9 months, they seem big enough to not need puppy chow.

A couple more -
How long before they stop chewing everything in sight?
How do you teach them to stop jumping?
How do you teach them to stop the play-biting? (They don't bite hard, but - it's annoying, and scary to children).
How do you keep them out of the trash can?

*Most* of the time, these 'problems' are because, we haven't actually taught them anything - so they treat everyone else the same as if they were just another puppy - bite, jump, stick their nose here and there. It's just with us adopting children, I'm worried they'll unwittingly hurt them.

 

[Nickel]

What I'm wondering is - how old before I should stop crating them?

Don't stop crating them at night until they've proven they can be trusted alone with all your belongings. Otherwise they're just going to tear up the house, and the girl will probably pee all over the place. :shrug:

 

[Chasey_Lane]

Our boxer still gets crated and he's about 4 years old. It's safer for him and we don't come home to a shredded house.

 

[persimmoncf]

my golden didnt stop this behavior till he was 2-1/2 years old!! At one year I actually gave him away because of him digging fox holes EVERYWHERE and chewing. He was peeling the siding off of the house , and at 2-1/2 the new owners decided that they could not live with his hair. I thank the Lord that they thought of me first to get him. He is now the best dog in the whole entire world. The people that got him a 1 year old said that his BADNESS stopped at a good 2 yrs old.

 

[Nickel]

And I'm going to venture a guess and say they aren't going to stop destroying your stuff and acting crazy around people on their own. You have to teach them good behavior. You have to remember that they are dogs, they don't have any concept of manners or how to act around people unless you teach them. All of the issues you address were issues with my puppy at one point, but not anymore. We instilled good behavior in him months and months ago. Now he's an 8 month old, fairly well behaved dog, which is saying much because his breed is known for being maniacally out of control. He has his slip-ups and hyper days, but for the most part, he's fine. He sleeps in his crate at night, and will continue to for quite some time, because he likes it and feels safe in there. Dustin leaves for work fairly early, and I don't want him to have to disturb the dog, who will then want to go out, or play. As far as the puppy food goes, look on the bag. Ours has guidelines on the amount to feed per weight and age, up to 12 months. After that, we'll switch him to big boy food.

And I have to put it out there....children aren't any easier to raise.

 

[SamSpade]

And I have to put it out there....children aren't any easier to raise.

It's probably a good thing we got these two little terrors first. And that Bluejay has many years as a stepmom previously.

But I have to think that SOME things are easier. For one thing, they speak your language so they know what you are saying. They'll disobey, but at least they have some idea what you want. I'm going to be MORE neurotic about their safety than I am about the dogs - I know that. If my dog wants to eat a wasp, I won't scramble to stop him, but I won't let a wasp near my *kid*. (On the other hand, I do scramble to stop them from eating chocolate, since I've heard it can be poisonous to dogs. Same with anti-freeze).

They just drive me crazy sometimes. They beg, constantly, even though they always have food, and we spoil them terribly with dog treats. When you're walking down the hall and they are standing in the way, they don't show the good sense God gave an insect - as in - get the hell out of the way if you don't want to be stepped on. I've grown hoarse telling them to just MOVE. If they get "loose" - they won't come when called. Bribery with food works, but they'll ignore you otherwise. "NO" only seems to mean, stop doing what you're doing for about five seconds, but after that it's ok.

Now I never hurt them or do anything worse than shout at them when they're really bad - but it's annoying that they aren't the slightest bit - "respectful". They just ignore us when we scold them. I have to think it's because there are no consequences. We just move the trash to where they can't get it - we move food up higher because they can now get up onto the table to get food we leave. And they will try to eat ANYTHING we're not watching - so they can't be trusted to be alone in a room with food for adults there.

Somehow, I don't remember this being that hard growing up with my parents.

 

[Nickel]

It's probably a good thing we got these two little terrors first. And that Bluejay has many years as a stepmom previously.

But I have to think that SOME things are easier. For one thing, they speak your language so they know what you are saying. They'll disobey, but at least they have some idea what you want. I'm going to be MORE neurotic about their safety than I am about the dogs - I know that. If my dog wants to eat a wasp, I won't scramble to stop him, but I won't let a wasp near my *kid*. (On the other hand, I do scramble to stop them from eating chocolate, since I've heard it can be poisonous to dogs. Same with anti-freeze).

They just drive me crazy sometimes. They beg, constantly, even though they always have food, and we spoil them terribly with dog treats. When you're walking down the hall and they are standing in the way, they don't show the good sense God gave an insect - as in - get the hell out of the way if you don't want to be stepped on. I've grown hoarse telling them to just MOVE. If they get "loose" - they won't come when called. Bribery with food works, but they'll ignore you otherwise. "NO" only seems to mean, stop doing what you're doing for about five seconds, but after that it's ok.

Now I never hurt them or do anything worse than shout at them when they're really bad - but it's annoying that they aren't the slightest bit - "respectful". They just ignore us when we scold them. I have to think it's because there are no consequences. We just move the trash to where they can't get it - we move food up higher because they can now get up onto the table to get food we leave. And they will try to eat ANYTHING we're not watching - so they can't be trusted to be alone in a room with food for adults there.

Somehow, I don't remember this being that hard growing up with my parents.

They are DOGS. Nothing has meaning to them until you give it meaning. They don't know what "Move" means, unless you say "Move", physically pick them up and move them, and say "Good dog, move". Over and over and over. They won't know to come when called, unless you teach them, and reinforce it. The same with "No". We have this problem at our house. The dog sometimes will put his paw on the couch. Dustin will say "Get your foot off the couch", and Cody will look at him like "You know I don't know what that means". So Dustin has to go take his foot off the couch, and say "Get your foot off the couch". They don't have to be respectful, they're dogs. You have to teach them what to do. Coming from a person who has actually taken care of an infant on a daily basis, and got him unscathed to the age of four, a dog is infinitely easier than a child. In most cases, the dog just wants to please you. Teach it how, and it'll be the best dog you've ever seen. But you have to teach them how. You can't expect these dogs to be well behaved if you haven't spent any time or effort in training them to be.

Seriously, I think all of your problems with your dogs stem from the fact that you're expecting them to act, and reason, like people.

 

[fredsaid2]

A couple more -
How long before they stop chewing everything in sight?
How do you teach them to stop jumping?
How do you teach them to stop the play-biting? (They don't bite hard, but - it's annoying, and scary to children).
How do you keep them out of the trash can?
QUOTE]

Only one suggestion, get a lidded, step to open trash can. Lowes carries a nice brand by Simple Human. It was the solution to keeping our dingy dog out of the trash. Now every room has a similar version.

 

[snuzzy]

I've been thinking about a couple things --

We crate our pups at night. However, the 'pups' are now 8 months old and are about 50 pounds apiece. They still act like puppies - they chew, bark, play, romp - they're just BIG puppies now. But I think anyone looking at them would just think they were young DOGS.

Now, we crated them as small pups to be housetrained. They're fully trained now, with the exception of the female and her incontinence problem. It's not her fault, and she goes when she can, outside, but she often has "accidents". She goes back to the vet Friday for further examination.

What I'm wondering is - how old before I should stop crating them? I don't trust them to have free rein of the house while I'm asleep. That would be nice, but so far, they get into everything when I'm not watching - clothes, trash, anything they can get their mouth on. So I can't let them go free in the house. Downstairs is largely dog-proof, so I could let them go free downstairs. They DO have a doggie door, but I worry about them being able to freely go outside at night, at will - there's the pool, and I don't want them barking at night.

Do people crate their pups for a long time? They seem fine - and they like their crates just fine - we have a long running routine of giving them LOTS of treats every night when they go to bed, so simply saying the word "bedtime" sends them charging down the hall and waiting in their crates. They KNOW that word.

Another one - - but I may know the answer already. How old before they're ready for adult food? One person at the vet's office suggested as early as twelve weeks. I thought that was way early, but at 8-9 months, they seem big enough to not need puppy chow.

A couple more -
How long before they stop chewing everything in sight?
How do you teach them to stop jumping?
How do you teach them to stop the play-biting? (They don't bite hard, but - it's annoying, and scary to children).
How do you keep them out of the trash can?

*Most* of the time, these 'problems' are because, we haven't actually taught them anything - so they treat everyone else the same as if they were just another puppy - bite, jump, stick their nose here and there. It's just with us adopting children, I'm worried they'll unwittingly hurt them.

Dogs are "den" animals, right now, your dogs see their crate as their den, and they "take care of it". If you want your whole house to be their den, then you need to teach that to them. Place the crate in a different part of the house so they see each room as part of their home, eventually opening the crate in that room ( may need to be in each room@1-2 weeks to get the point), with a child gate to keep them in that particular part of the house. My dog uses a doggie door and it's great, can you put a baracade up so they can't get to the pool?

Some of the behaviors you're talking about, we cured by using a lead around a tree, our dog hated to be on it, so if she barked at night, we would scold, then put her on the lead for @ 1/2 hour, you have to do it consistently. I read once that dogs have the mentality of a 2year old, so this would be the equivalent of "time out". To teach my dog to stay in our yard, I walked her on the leash around the perimeter and praised her the whole way (with Snausages), but would say no and jerk the leash if she wandered into the street, off the property line. I did this every day for @2weeks (she was 8months old), then when she was allowed in the yard without the leash, if she wandered off, she was put on the lead and scolded (when we could catch her!). She now stays in the yard, and she has free run of the house. If she is home alone, she will steal our shoes, but she doesn't chew them ! We only use the crate when we travel, and she likes it because we never used that as a consequence...

 

[Cockdiesel]

I haven't had a big problem with the begging but sometimes my 6 month old puppy will a little. I tell him no, ignore him, and most of all never feed him while I am eatting. Try and get your dogs on a feeding schedule where they eat right before you. Mine tends not to beg as much if he isn't hungry.

He learned to get out of my way by me walking through him and telling him to move at the same time. He now knows what "move" means. It takes a lot of repitition and lots of patients with dogs.

My dog still doen't listen all the time when called. That is the hardest to teach. I still take him out on a leash if I think he will be disracted by anything. Always rewarded them for comming back no matter how long it took. Dogs won't come to you if they think they will be punished. Start by calling them in a confined area such as a gated area or inside your home. Reward them with praise or small treats over and over until it comes natrual to them without thinking about it.

You have to watch dogs/puppies closely until they can be trusted. If you can't watch them crate them. Better safe than sorry. Dogs don't mind being crated as long as they have enough play time. I wear my dog out on a jog or a walk daily. He listens better when he is tired and he loves to get out. It also makes for a good bond between you and your dog.

Shouting doesn't help. It just makes them think you are crazy. Dogs hear much better that humans, talk with a stern voice, that's all it takes. When mine is out of control I hold him down until he settles. Hold him by the back of the neck like thier mother would do when they were young. They know what you mean when you are firm with them.

Dogs love to learn and love to please their owners. Them more you teach them the better they will listen. Remember they are dogs and not humans. Treat them that way.

 

[Elle]

Another one - - but I may know the answer already. How old before they're ready for adult food? One person at the vet's office suggested as early as twelve weeks. I thought that was way early, but at 8-9 months, they seem big enough to not need puppy chow.

My monster is almost 8 months old and is 65 pounds. I asked the vet about when we should switch her food b/c I was concerned about her packing on the pounds with the puppy brand but was told not until she was 1 y/o. I should monitor her weight and if she begins to get pudgy that I could start mixing in a weight control adult food after 9 months but to try to stay on the puppy until 12 months.

 

[vraiblonde]

But I have to think that SOME things are easier. For one thing, they speak your language so they know what you are saying.
Children pretend not to understand common English until they are at least 19 years old.

They'll disobey, but at least they have some idea what you want.
They know what you want but they couldn't care less - they care about what THEY want.

They beg, constantly, even though they always have food, and we spoil them terribly with dog treats.
Sounds like a teenager to me.

When you're walking down the hall and they are standing in the way, they don't show the good sense God gave an insect - as in - get the hell out of the way if you don't want to be stepped on.
Yep, that would be your basic kid.

I've grown hoarse telling them to just MOVE. If they get "loose" - they won't come when called.
More kid behavior.

Bribery with food works, but they'll ignore you otherwise.
Yep - kids again.

"NO" only seems to mean, stop doing what you're doing for about five seconds, but after that it's ok.
Anyone noticing a pattern here?

Now I never hurt them or do anything worse than shout at them when they're really bad - but it's annoying that they aren't the slightest bit - "respectful".
My stars - who would have thought there were so many similarities between kids and dogs???

They just ignore us when we scold them. I have to think it's because there are no consequences.


Somehow, I don't remember this being that hard growing up with my parents.
That's because you were the PITA kid, not the parent/adult. Perspective.

 

[SamSpade]

Somehow, I don't remember this being that hard growing up with my parents.
That's because you were the PITA kid, not the parent/adult. Perspective.

Cute. I was referring to training dogs, however. Seems to me, they behaved better - of course, I think my parents were much harsher then - that was the era where you rolled up a newpaper and rubbed their noses in it - where you ran a line in the back yard and hooked up the dog to it.

 

[vraiblonde]

And this:

And they will try to eat ANYTHING we're not watching - so they can't be trusted to be alone in a room with food for adults there.

reminded me of the time my son drug his grubby fingers through the frosting on a birthday cake, even though he had been told not to touch it because it was for a party later.

 

[Nickel]

Have you taken any of the advice you've gotten from forumites in the past in the pursuit of having well behaved dogs?

 

[SamSpade]

My monster is almost 8 months old and is 65 pounds. I asked the vet about when we should switch her food b/c I was concerned about her packing on the pounds with the puppy brand but was told not until she was 1 y/o. I should monitor her weight and if she begins to get pudgy that I could start mixing in a weight control adult food after 9 months but to try to stay on the puppy until 12 months.

See, that's closer to everything else I read - which makes me wonder if the vet person (I don't know if my wife talked to a VET or a kid working there) understood the question.

On the other hand, I think the puppy chow is loaded with protein and calories for hihg-energy growing dogs, and that makes sense. However, the male is beginning to get pudgy. My wife still says he's just "big" but growing up "big" myself, I know that often is just a euphemism for beginning to get fat. Still, he gets a LOT of exercise, since he spends a lot of the day chasing his little sister, and he swims all the time now. He's a great swimmer. He's almost as fast as ME.

 

[SamSpade]

Have you taken any of the advice you've gotten from forumites in the past in the pursuit of having well behaved dogs?

Absolutely. It's why I come here.

Admittedly, my biggest failing is not spending the time to *specifically* train them. Since the female still has an incontinence problem, I've been laboring to make sure she doesn't pee at night when she sleeps - so I follow her around in the evening to make sure she pees before going to sleep. That way she doesn't get used to sleeping in pee.

But I haven't taken them for walks more than a couple times each, which appears to have the greatest effect on training.

 

[vraiblonde]

Cute. I was referring to training dogs, however. Seems to me, they behaved better - of course, I think my parents were much harsher then - that was the era where you rolled up a newpaper and rubbed their noses in it - where you ran a line in the back yard and hooked up the dog to it.

They weren't harsher - just more experienced. They had raised children and, as we have learned, the concept of raising children and dogs is basically the same.

Reward good behavior.
Punish bad behavior.
Teach with love and an eye toward the future.
Be firm in your expectations.
But don't expect too much.
Remember it's nothing personal, it's just what they do.
If you stay the course, you will see positive results.
It's not as easy as they make it look on TV.

I don't know crap about dogs, but I know a lot about raising children.

 

[vraiblonde]

But I haven't taken them for walks more than a couple times each, which appears to have the greatest effect on training.

And the mother of all child/dog raising techniques:

In order for your child/dog to turn out the way you want, YOU must raise them and teach them.

I can feel Catt's tension from clear up here.

 

[Nickel]

Absolutely. It's why I come here.

Admittedly, my biggest failing is not spending the time to *specifically* train them. Since the female still has an incontinence problem, I've been laboring to make sure she doesn't pee at night when she sleeps - so I follow her around in the evening to make sure she pees before going to sleep. That way she doesn't get used to sleeping in pee.

But I haven't taken them for walks more than a couple times each, which appears to have the greatest effect on training.

Okay, you say that, but you seem to be having the same issues you were having on "day one". I don't mean to sound rude, so I'm sorry if that's how I'm coming across, but you seem to expect way too much out of these dogs, and don't want to put in near as much effort as it will take to get results.