Donald junior's evolving story

[Gilligan]

Comey found there wasn't intent which seems to go against the facts, but its tough to prove intent. .

Except that the whole issue of "intent" was legally irrelevant when it came to what she did. Comey crafted and deployed a new legal threshold right out of thin air.

 

[Midnightrider]

Oh, so they were engaging in espionage; you know, that thing that other countries do when you don't know they're doing it? So, this isn't collusion at all is it? So, we can now move on. Collusion is no longer at hand here - we're dealing with Russian spying. Glad you FINALLY got to the root of what REALLY happened. And it only took you 400 posts to get there.

Espionage and collusion are not mutually exclusive. This has always been about Russian 'spies' trying to influence our election.

Hmmm... looks very familiar. I seem to remember this being YOU LIBS during the Clinton email investigation. The difference being, there was actual evidence against Clinton.

• She did have a private server that she used exclusively for her State Dept work; against agency policy set up by president Obama.
• That server did have classified, at the highest levels, which violates just about every law and rule of handling classified.
• Hillary Clinton did lie about all of this.
• Bill Clinton did collude with Loretta Lynch to make the whole thing go away.
• James Comey did yield to whatever convinced him to drop the whole thing; after he enumerated all the crimes Clinton committed. The newly invented standard? THERE WASN'T INTENT.

And you liberals claimed it was a witch hunt. There was no evidence. It was no big deal. It wasn't illegal.

Now, you and MR are unable to articulate a single piece of evidence of collusion, yet there is something there there. Let's go a different direction here... It was for this very reason - the left's hatred toward anything they disagree with - you LOST. BIGLY! Yet you keep doing this same crap thinking it will glean different results. I say, keep up the good work. You want to really lose your ever-hating minds? Keep doing this crap, keep losing elections, and hand the GOP an bullet-proof senate.

I go camping for a few days and you selectively forget DJs email saying he was intending to get information he knew to be coming from the Russian government? Remember, you had moved the bar to 'nothing illegal'.
Besides, you are defending DJ based on his word and that of people know to have started their careers with the Russian government, one in intelligence. We also know that DJs story evolved as he learned what the NYT had on him.

So yeah, collusion happened. We are waiting for the investigation to determine if anything illegal happened.

 

[PsyOps]

Clinton messed up badly, but that doesn't absolve Donald Trump.

Comey found there wasn't intent which seems to go against the facts, but its tough to prove intent. She did use her state department email too. Basically I think for the vast majority of classified email she used the state department email. For the non-classified emails she used her own private email server. Of course at least 5 formally classified emails were sent using the private server and "dozens" of other emails that were not formally classified, but that had classified information were sent using the private server. Her argument is going to be my standard procedure was to send classified email using the state department server, I messed up five times, but the vast majority of the time I sent it through the correct server. Showing that she had the intent to violate the law for those five emails rather than just made a mistake was not going to be that easy of a case to make.

I am sure there were a lot of liberals claiming it was a witch hunt and not a big deal, but I know some were disgusted with her for that mess. Trump won for two reasons. First he got a lot of independents in the rust belt states and second because he got a bigger turnout out of his base. I feel like part of the reason Hillary struggled turning out her base was because a lot were a little disgusted with her.

First of all, there is no requirement, under the law, for ‘intent’; especially in the manner Comey was stipulating. Clinton did intentionally mishandle classified though. Comey’s determination was that she didn’t intend to use classified against this country. There is no such standard to meet here. She did intentionally mishandle classified. In my world, you can get into big trouble for accidentally mishandling classified; so imagine the trouble someone like me would get in for intentionally mishandling classified. It’s not even Comey’s job to prove intent, it’s his job to take the laws that exist and weigh that against what she did; and she most certainly violated the law. There is absolute evidence that Clinton violated the law with intent and she should have been prosecuted for it.

Secondly, what am I absolving Trump of? I have stated this over and over… in order for there to be this sort of investigation, there has to be evidence. I have seen none. All that exists are beliefs that Trump colluded with the Russians. If you have evidence of wrong-doing – actual collusion by Trump to change the outcome of the election – show it to me and I’ll gladly shut up about this. There is evidence that some of Trump’s team met with some Russians. Is that the crime here? If that’s the case, you had better get Obama, Clinton, Rice, Kerry, and a host of other Obama-ites into this investigation; because they most certainly colluded with the Russians on numerous occasions. So, I have nothing to absolve Trump of.

 

[SamSpade]

Except that the whole issue of "intent" was legally irrelevant when it came to what she did. Comey crafted and deployed a new legal threshold right out of thin air.

I found THIS article - illuminating....

https://spectator.org/whos-colluding-with-whom/

Especially this --

If timelines are interesting to you, there is this — reportedly, the Obama administration sought permission to electronically monitor Trump Tower in early June, and the FISA court would not grant it. But in October, that warrant was given.


So if you’d like to don your tinfoil hat and play the collusion game, try this on for size — when the Obama administration couldn’t get permission from the FISA court to surveil Trump, they allowed Veselnitskaya back into the country to take part in those Washington activities aside from whatever legal work she supposedly would be doing, and in the meantime the administration’s pals at Fusion tasked Goldstone with attempting to hook Trump Junior, whose performance makes him not a terrible analog for Fredo Corleone, into a meeting at Trump Tower to pass along “opposition research.”


And once that meeting — which on its surface was a waste of everyone’s time — was had, the Obama administration now had something to sell to the FISA court to get that warrant — from which they snagged Mike Flynn and gave the Democrat party and the media a mechanism to shroud the Trump administration in what can best be described as a rather dubious scandal. Remember how Hillary Clinton was accusing Trump of being a Putin’s puppet at the October 19 debate?



Which theory is harder to believe?


That Trump, who had never run for office before and who was panned as a clown by the Democrats and the media right up until Election Night last November, orchestrated a grand coup d’état with the assistance of the Russians to “hack” an American election, and that it was so well hidden that the Don Junior meeting is the only real evidence unearthed so far of the whole thing…


…Or that the Obama administration and the Democratic Party used their immense power to attempt to ensnare the Trumps in a damaging narrative that would either discredit him and the Republican Party as traitors in the event of a Clinton victory or cripple his administration in “scandal” should he pull an upset?

 

[PsyOps]

I go camping for a few days and you selectively forget DJs email saying he was intending to get information he knew to be coming from the Russian government? Remember, you had moved the bar to 'nothing illegal'.
Besides, you are defending DJ based on his word and that of people know to have started their careers with the Russian government, one in intelligence. We also know that DJs story evolved as he learned what the NYT had on him.

So yeah, collusion happened. We are waiting for the investigation to determine if anything illegal happened.

Again I ask... was THAT illegal? Is changing his story illegal?

So, you finally get to the root of it... "collusion happened". Trump, and people on his team did collude with the Russians to change the outcome of the election. Now, we got there... where's your proof? Where's your evidence? Oh, I know... that's why it has to be investigated. Well, if you know Trump colluded, what needs to be investigated? You already know. Or are you just guessing?

Oh and...............

 

[Midnightrider]

Again I ask... was THAT illegal? Is changing his story illegal?

So, you finally get to the root of it... "collusion happened". Trump, and people on his team did collude with the Russians to change the outcome of the election. Now, we got there... where's your proof? Where's your evidence? Oh, I know... that's why it has to be investigated. Well, if you know Trump colluded, what needs to be investigated? You already know. Or are you just guessing?

Oh and...............

You not liking the reality does not change it. Maybe you can try

 

[PsyOps]

You not liking the reality does not change it. Maybe you can try

It looks like all the fresh air did you no good at all.

 

[Gilligan]

You not liking the reality does not change it. Maybe you can try

How many years in jail do you believe that Don Jr. is going to serve for having that meeting?

 

[philibusters]

I found THIS article - illuminating....

https://spectator.org/whos-colluding-with-whom/

Especially this --

If timelines are interesting to you, there is this — reportedly, the Obama administration sought permission to electronically monitor Trump Tower in early June, and the FISA court would not grant it. But in October, that warrant was given.


So if you’d like to don your tinfoil hat and play the collusion game, try this on for size — when the Obama administration couldn’t get permission from the FISA court to surveil Trump, they allowed Veselnitskaya back into the country to take part in those Washington activities aside from whatever legal work she supposedly would be doing, and in the meantime the administration’s pals at Fusion tasked Goldstone with attempting to hook Trump Junior, whose performance makes him not a terrible analog for Fredo Corleone, into a meeting at Trump Tower to pass along “opposition research.”


And once that meeting — which on its surface was a waste of everyone’s time — was had, the Obama administration now had something to sell to the FISA court to get that warrant — from which they snagged Mike Flynn and gave the Democrat party and the media a mechanism to shroud the Trump administration in what can best be described as a rather dubious scandal. Remember how Hillary Clinton was accusing Trump of being a Putin’s puppet at the October 19 debate?



Which theory is harder to believe?


That Trump, who had never run for office before and who was panned as a clown by the Democrats and the media right up until Election Night last November, orchestrated a grand coup d’état with the assistance of the Russians to “hack” an American election, and that it was so well hidden that the Don Junior meeting is the only real evidence unearthed so far of the whole thing…


…Or that the Obama administration and the Democratic Party used their immense power to attempt to ensnare the Trumps in a damaging narrative that would either discredit him and the Republican Party as traitors in the event of a Clinton victory or cripple his administration in “scandal” should he pull an upset?

At least for me its way harder to believe the Obama administration ensnared the Trumps than that Trump's team was looking for whatever edge they could get.

She was allowed in without a VISA because she was accompanying a Russian colleague testifying before Congress. As a diplomatic measure it doesn't seem that unusual to let her in. Plus how would the Obama admin have known she was going to set up a meeting with Trump Jr.

Trump's administration has changed things. Posters who used to be pretty reasonable will do blackflips to deflect any criticism of Trump. Not that a lot of liberals won't do the same thing for Hillary, I am sure they would, but this polarizing environment is definitely dwindling the moderates.

 

[Gilligan]

. Plus how would the Obama admin have known she was going to set up a meeting with Trump Jr.
.

She didn't set the meeting up.And how she got here.....very interesting...

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/341788-exclusive-doj-let-russian-lawyer-into-us-before-she-met-with-trump

 

[Sapidus]

Hmmm... looks very familiar. I seem to remember this being YOU LIBS during the Clinton email investigation. The difference being, there was actual evidence against Clinton.

• She did have a private server that she used exclusively for her State Dept work; against agency policy set up by president Obama.
• That server did have classified, at the highest levels, which violates just about every law and rule of handling classified.
• Hillary Clinton did lie about all of this.
• Bill Clinton did collude with Loretta Lynch to make the whole thing go away.
• James Comey did yield to whatever convinced him to drop the whole thing; after he enumerated all the crimes Clinton committed. The newly invented standard? THERE WASN'T INTENT.

And you liberals claimed it was a witch hunt. There was no evidence. It was no big deal. It wasn't illegal.

Now, you and MR are unable to articulate a single piece of evidence of collusion, yet there is something there there. Let's go a different direction here... It was for this very reason - the left's hatred toward anything they disagree with - you LOST. BIGLY! Yet you keep doing this same crap thinking it will glean different results. I say, keep up the good work. You want to really lose your ever-hating minds? Keep doing this crap, keep losing elections, and hand the GOP an bullet-proof senate.

So why isn't Hillary in jail f there was so much evidence against her? Oh right she is an all powerful witch who controls all of Washington but that power stops right at being elected President. We have heard that stupid argument a million times and no matter what you say about Hillary to deflect the fact remains JR tried to collude but was to dumb to accomplish it and instead most likely was compromised by the Russian's during his meeting which he failed to disclose. Maybe, maybe if this was the only Russia link your undying defense of him could be forgiven as a mere misunderstanding but when the Trump's repeatedly lie or omit things it becomes harder and harder to believe that these connections are just oversights by political neophytes and not evidence of a deeper link.

 

[Gilligan]

So why isn't Hillary in jail .

A question for the ages.

 

[GURPS]

I'll Take Obama Admin Created Entrapment Scandals for $ 1000 Alex.

 

[Sapidus]

Clinton messed up badly, but that doesn't absolve Donald Trump.

Comey found there wasn't intent which seems to go against the facts, but its tough to prove intent. She did use her state department email too. Basically I think for the vast majority of classified email she used the state department email. For the non-classified emails she used her own private email server. Of course at least 5 formally classified emails were sent using the private server and "dozens" of other emails that were not formally classified, but that had classified information were sent using the private server. Her argument is going to be my standard procedure was to send classified email using the state department server, I messed up five times, but the vast majority of the time I sent it through the correct server. Showing that she had the intent to violate the law for those five emails rather than just made a mistake was not going to be that easy of a case to make.

I am sure there were a lot of liberals claiming it was a witch hunt and not a big deal, but I know some were disgusted with her for that mess. Trump won for two reasons. First he got a lot of independents in the rust belt states and second because he got a bigger turnout out of his base. I feel like part of the reason Hillary struggled turning out her base was because a lot were a little disgusted with her.

This^^^

While some of the accusations against Hilary were true and brought on by her it is clear now that many IE, Pizzagate and Parkinsons and all the other more loony theories were pushed by some group ( Most likely Russia) using bots and other web manipulations to spread the information and keep it in the news to further cloud less politically intelligent peoples judgment.

 

[Gilligan]

to further cloud less politically intelligent peoples judgment.

 

[GURPS]

So why isn't Hillary in jail f there was so much evidence against her?

Comey, by way of his boss, and meeting with Bill - covered for her

 

[GURPS]

. ..... but was to dumb to accomplish it and instead most likely was compromised by the Russian's .....

so he is an Idiot, you have no proof anyone was compromised

Maybe, maybe if this was the only Russia link your undying defense of him could be forgiven as a mere misunderstanding ...........

you of course have FACTS Proving Collusion beyond this ONE meeting

 

[Wishbone]

to further cloud less politically intelligent peoples judgment.

Cloud less?

This must tie in with the fart on the plane.

 

[GURPS]

Comey found there wasn't intent which seems to go against the facts, but its tough to prove intent.

10's of thousands of emails ......... 100s of known classified communications - it goes beyond 'intent' into criminal

we are talking a couple of messages forwarded

anyone else would be serving 20 yrs in a Federal Pen

 

[itsbob]

[/B]


This^^^

While some of the accusations against Hilary were true and brought on by her it is clear now that many IE, Pizzagate and Parkinsons and all the other more loony theories were pushed by some group ( Most likely Russia) using bots and other web manipulations to spread the information and keep it in the news to further cloud less politically intelligent peoples judgment.

You are actually stupid enough to believe this crap??

Did you seriously just post this??