Dow futures down 268

MMDad

MMDad

Lem Putt
at 7,994

:ohwell:

I heard someone say that investors and businesses are pulling out of the market because they are nervous about what Obama would do to taxing of profits and capital gains.

It'll be interesting to see what the market does the day after. If McCain is elected, does it go up over 10,000 by the end of the week?
 
AK-74me

AK-74me

"Typical White Person"
Man I just looked at my account for one of the first times since everything went to hell.

Check out some of my top holdings 1 year charts.

CEG
CHK
AEM
ATI
HOG
HAL

Sorry I would post the charts themselves here but I'd blow my brains out if I had to look again.
 
GWguy

GWguy

*
Ok, so what happens if everyone pulls out of the market, sells off every thing they have. Do they just close the doors to the financial district in NY?
 
MMDad

MMDad

Lem Putt
GWguy said:
Ok, so what happens if everyone pulls out of the market, sells off every thing they have. Do they just close the doors to the financial district in NY?
Click to expand...

You can't sell unless someone is willing to buy. For every share sold, there is a share bought.

For those who value your stocks, think about it next Tuesday. If capital gains taxes and corporate taxes are guaranteed to go up, is there any chance that investors will want to get back into the market?
 
Pete

Pete

Repete
MMDad said:
You can't sell unless someone is willing to buy. For every share sold, there is a share bought.

For those who value your stocks, think about it next Tuesday. If capital gains taxes and corporate taxes are guaranteed to go up, is there any chance that investors will want to get back into the market?
Click to expand...

I am not so sure that will make a big deal. 401K and IRA withdrawals are not subject to capital gains taxes and a bunch of the market is made up of those investments. Also when this does swing back it will most likely do it with big chunks early then slow. The gains someone could make if they bought in at the bottom would greatly eclipse the worry about capital gains.
 
Tilted

Tilted

..
Pete said:
I am not so sure that will make a big deal. 401K and IRA withdrawals are not subject to capital gains taxes and a bunch of the market is made up of those investments. Also when this does swing back it will most likely do it with big chunks early then slow. The gains someone could make if they bought in at the bottom would greatly eclipse the worry about capital gains.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

The rapid nature of the sell-off was more a phenomena caused by massive over leveraging than by negative investor sentiment. Don't get me wrong, there was and is a lot of negative sentiment due to poor economic outlooks, frozen credit markets and a widespread reassessment by the populace of their economic health based on a drastically reduced perception of their home's value. Add to that, some sectors had to price in the impact of Obama's election which was becoming more and more likely. However, it was margin calls and impending margin calls that feed the flames and caused the steep decline.

For those of us who had de-leveraged and had large relative cash positions, this is like Black Friday (i.e. the day after Thanksgiving) - everything is on sale and the only trick is containing your excitement enough to just buy the things that you had your eye on anyway.
 
Bavarian

Bavarian

New Member
Now that BHO is elected, all changes. He wants to increase capital gains tax and dividend tax. Number being mentioned is 25%. Now, with the financial meltdown, we will have high inflation. Capital gains are not indexed for inflation, so paying this higher tax could very well result in the tax being higher than the constant dollar profit, wealth confisgation. Dividends are taxed twice, at the corporate level and at the individual level. Many company's stock prices have increased due to the lowered tax on dividends making them more desirable, taking away this dividend benefit will cause the share prices to go down. This will effect everyone, not just $250K and above. His spending will require more taxes. We are in for a bad time.
 
N

nw2ne

New Member
Bavarian said:
Now that BHO is elected, all changes. He wants to increase capital gains tax and dividend tax. Number being mentioned is 25%. Now, with the financial meltdown, we will have high inflation. Capital gains are not indexed for inflation, so paying this higher tax could very well result in the tax being higher than the constant dollar profit, wealth confisgation. Dividends are taxed twice, at the corporate level and at the individual level. Many company's stock prices have increased due to the lowered tax on dividends making them more desirable, taking away this dividend benefit will cause the share prices to go down. This will effect everyone, not just $250K and above. His spending will require more taxes. We are in for a bad time.
Click to expand...

I'm wonder how the market is actually reacting to his proposed policies right now. Dow has been heading down since his election.
 
desertrat

desertrat

0_0
Pete said:
I am not so sure that will make a big deal. 401K and IRA withdrawals are not subject to capital gains taxes and a bunch of the market is made up of those investments. Also when this does swing back it will most likely do it with big chunks early then slow. The gains someone could make if they bought in at the bottom would greatly eclipse the worry about capital gains.
Click to expand...
That could change.
nw2ne said:
I'm wonder how the market is actually reacting to his proposed policies right now. Dow has been heading down since his election.
Click to expand...
Not surprising. Correction tomorrow? Let's hope.
 
G

Gwydion

New Member
nw2ne said:
I'm wonder how the market is actually reacting to his proposed policies right now. Dow has been heading down since his election.
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Its been heading down for quite some time now. His election is just in the middle of it.
 
clevalley

clevalley

...
Gwydion said:
Its been heading down for quite some time now. His election is just in the middle of it.
Click to expand...

It rallied the day of the election and shortly after the announcement of BO's win... 24 hours after the announcement the market tanked, and it is tanking hard.
 
Bavarian

Bavarian

New Member
Pete said:
I am not so sure that will make a big deal. 401K and IRA withdrawals are not subject to capital gains taxes and a bunch of the market is made up of those investments. Also when this does swing back it will most likely do it with big chunks early then slow. The gains someone could make if they bought in at the bottom would greatly eclipse the worry about capital gains.
Click to expand...
IRAs and 401Ks are not the bulk of the market. People own individual stocks. The increase in capital Gains Taxes and taxes on Dividends will cause a large sell off effecting every stock.
 
W

w1llsterl1

New Member
The worry is no longer about inflation, it is about deflation. As the economy worsens people lose jobs. People see other people losing their jobs and begin to worry that this will happen to them, too. The people that are out of work cut spending. The people who are afraid they will lose their jobs cut spending. Add to that an already overextended US population with no savings and you have big problems. As people reduce spending restaraunts, hotels, and smaller retail chains close shop because they can't make money. This causes more layoffs and further belt tightening. Eventually prices decline as surviving businesses cut costs and prices to remain competitive.

You need to be very careful how you invest in this type of environment.

People think bonds are safe, that isn't true if you own a bond of a company that goes into bankruptcy. Or if you own a bond fund that owns the bond of the company that goes bankrupt.

Consult with a qualified financial advisor, and don't buy a stock because it looks cheap, there is a reason it looks so cheap.
 
SEABREEZE 1957

SEABREEZE 1957

My 401K is now a 201K
w1llsterl1 said:
The worry is no longer about inflation, it is about deflation. As the economy worsens people lose jobs. People see other people losing their jobs and begin to worry that this will happen to them, too. The people that are out of work cut spending. The people who are afraid they will lose their jobs cut spending. Add to that an already overextended US population with no savings and you have big problems. As people reduce spending restaraunts, hotels, and smaller retail chains close shop because they can't make money. This causes more layoffs and further belt tightening. Eventually prices decline as surviving businesses cut costs and prices to remain competitive.

You need to be very careful how you invest in this type of environment.

People think bonds are safe, that isn't true if you own a bond of a company that goes into bankruptcy. Or if you own a bond fund that owns the bond of the company that goes bankrupt.

Consult with a qualified financial advisor, and don't buy a stock because it looks cheap, there is a reason it looks so cheap.
Click to expand...


I would but I'm probaby too broke to afford their fees....
:shrug:
What's the going rate for 'qualified financial advisors' ?​
 
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