Electric Car News

Bare-ya-cuda

Well-Known Member
So what would a truck like yours cost new? The current crop of EV trucks won't help. We don't have final cost or performance figures for the top end Cybertruck yet but it's supposed to have 500 or better for range, a 14k tow capacity and 3.5k payload.
Right now it would cost much more than I paid for mine. I also have the Denali so the cost is much more than a base model with same drivetrain. That’s pretty impressive specs for an EV truck, that thing has be more or less a giant battery with tires and wheels. 3.5k payload make me think it’s more of a commercial truck than a pickup.
 

spr1975wshs

Mostly settled in...
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If I have to go with something less motivated by gasoline, will buy a diesel hybrid. That way the hydrocarbons can be used French fry oil. ;)
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Right now it would cost much more than I paid for mine. I also have the Denali so the cost is much more than a base model with same drivetrain. That’s pretty impressive specs for an EV truck, that thing has be more or less a giant battery with tires and wheels. 3.5k payload make me think it’s more of a commercial truck than a pickup.

Which is part of the math. Folks saying, well, I paid 40K for my F-TwoFiddy in 2005, so any truck that costs more than 40K is overpriced. When that same truck today cost say 80K. And equipment matters. Adjustable air suspension, those sort of Denali level amenities, if they come in the EV, you dont cross shop the bare bones fleet model. Apples to apples after all. Enhanced driving aids baked in, especially for towing, with an AI level aid for figuring range effects and backing assistance, full camera coverage, that sort of thing.

Battery size of course we dont know. But keep in mind, while many folks are hung up on the looks, thinking its solely an aesthetic choice, it actually results from the requirements. How do I get full size truck capability while not needing a 500lb steel frame (making that 500lbs up, no idea what am F-150 frame weight is) that I only need when towing that 14K? Thats point of the "four major parts" theme. Front and rear castings, battery pack, and 4mm steel exoskeleton. Its one very tough steel box. Unlike a conventional truck where the bed and cab are just along for the ride, more dead weight for the frame to bear, in the CT, its part of the structure. So the battery will be big, but not as big as Ford and GM will need for their next gen unibody trucks.

And I suspect that unlike the Silverado EV, which has a paltry 1300lb payload becuase the damn thing weighs 8,000lbs, the CT gets that high payload because its going to be pretty lightweight. People think the 4mm stainless makes it heavy, but that replaces a lot of thinner metal stampings that go into a unibody. Could very well be less than 6,500lbs all in.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
You are beating a DEAD HORSE bro!
Were you part of this particular part of the discussion? If you don't care for it, feel free to scroll on. Bare and I are having a discussion based on facts and information. If those bore you, well.....
Get Out No GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon
 

Bare-ya-cuda

Well-Known Member
Which is part of the math. Folks saying, well, I paid 40K for my F-TwoFiddy in 2005, so any truck that costs more than 40K is overpriced. When that same truck today cost say 80K. And equipment matters. Adjustable air suspension, those sort of Denali level amenities, if they come in the EV, you dont cross shop the bare bones fleet model. Apples to apples after all. Enhanced driving aids baked in, especially for towing, with an AI level aid for figuring range effects and backing assistance, full camera coverage, that sort of thing.

Battery size of course we dont know. But keep in mind, while many folks are hung up on the looks, thinking its solely an aesthetic choice, it actually results from the requirements. How do I get full size truck capability while not needing a 500lb steel frame (making that 500lbs up, no idea what am F-150 frame weight is) that I only need when towing that 14K? Thats point of the "four major parts" theme. Front and rear castings, battery pack, and 4mm steel exoskeleton. Its one very tough steel box. Unlike a conventional truck where the bed and cab are just along for the ride, more dead weight for the frame to bear, in the CT, its part of the structure. So the battery will be big, but not as big as Ford and GM will need for their next gen unibody trucks.

And I suspect that unlike the Silverado EV, which has a paltry 1300lb payload becuase the damn thing weighs 8,000lbs, the CT gets that high payload because its going to be pretty lightweight. People think the 4mm stainless makes it heavy, but that replaces a lot of thinner metal stampings that go into a unibody. Could very well be less than 6,500lbs all in.
I have no doubt they will get there, by the time they do I will be fully retired and not looking to upgrade trucks to an EV. EV’s are like computers where in the early 2000’s. Some embraced it and knew it was the future others shrugged their shoulders and said yea right. EV’s are the future, I have no doubt, but you can’t force the market. Setting a 2035 timelines is more than likely unattainable seeing how there is so much in the network that has to happen for you to take an EV on a road trip. Charging is going to have to be capable to charge in about the same time as a petrol pump. I am a gas and go person. If I have to pee I do it during fuel stops. I don’t want to be hanging around sheetz eating a sandwich waiting to charge. That sandwich gets eaten on the roll.
 

phreddyp

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Were you part of this particular part of the discussion? If you don't care for it, feel free to scroll on. Bare and I are having a discussion based on facts and information. If those bore you, well.....
Get Out No GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon
I most certainly will not, reading your lame attempts to justify EV's is highly amusing! I can hardly wait for these attempts to morf into praises and the advantages for locomotives, aircraft, bulldozers, ships, farming machines and semi's that will all run on batteries. Some of the stuff you post has some merit, bottom line is that you are a little wind trying to blow hard!
 

glhs837

Power with Control
I have no doubt they will get there, by the time they do I will be fully retired and not looking to upgrade trucks to an EV. EV’s are like computers where in the early 2000’s. Some embraced it and knew it was the future others shrugged their shoulders and said yea right. EV’s are the future, I have no doubt, but you can’t force the market. Setting a 2035 timelines is more than likely unattainable seeing how there is so much in the network that has to happen for you to take an EV on a road trip. Charging is going to have to be capable to charge in about the same time as a petrol pump. I am a gas and go person. If I have to pee I do it during fuel stops. I don’t want to be hanging around sheetz eating a sandwich waiting to charge. That sandwich gets eaten on the roll.

Concur, I've always said that the market si strong enough that the govt needs to get its damn thumb off the scale. That way the infrastructure can grow as market presence does. As for charge time, well, that goes back to use case. I spend 8-10 minutes gassing up around town three or four times a month. 40 minutes a month that I get back if I just plug in when I get home. If I spend some of those on road trips, thats cool with me, but everybody is different.
I most certainly will not, reading your lame attempts to justify EV's is highly amusing! I can hardly wait for these attempts to morf into praises and the advantages for locomotives, aircraft, bulldozers, ships, farming machines and semi's that will all run on batteries. Some of the stuff you post has some merit, bottom line is that you are a little wind trying to blow hard!

We'll see how the semi things work out soon, Pepsi is deploying the Tesla Semi in a couple of weeks. Those others, those will have to wait for a more energy dense solution, batteries as we know them simply wont do it. I post what I know. If you view those posts as lame, not my problem. EVs are here to stay, if that bugs you, that again is your problem. :)
 

phreddyp

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Concur, I've always said that the market si strong enough that the govt needs to get its damn thumb off the scale. That way the infrastructure can grow as market presence does. As for charge time, well, that goes back to use case. I spend 8-10 minutes gassing up around town three or four times a month. 40 minutes a month that I get back if I just plug in when I get home. If I spend some of those on road trips, thats cool with me, but everybody is different.


We'll see how the semi things work out soon, Pepsi is deploying the Tesla Semi in a couple of weeks. Those others, those will have to wait for a more energy dense solution, batteries as we know them simply wont do it. I post what I know. If you view those posts as lame, not my problem. EVs are here to stay, if that bugs you, that again is your problem. :)
The funny part is I don't have a problem with EV's they are a technology whose time will come but not yet. The issue I have is folks like you who think they are ready to go, then try to tout them as the best thing since sliced bread. Sounds like YOU got suckered into buying one and now you want company. You go ahead and drive your not ready for prime time vehicle, one day you will be bitching about the piece of crap you got suckered into but I doubt that you will ever admit it. Nothing like a convert to carry the banner!
 

glhs837

Power with Control
The funny part is I don't have a problem with EV's they are a technology whose time will come but not yet. The issue I have is folks like you who think they are ready to go, then try to tout them as the best thing since sliced bread. Sounds like YOU got suckered into buying one and now you want company. You go ahead and drive your not ready for prime time vehicle, one day you will be bitching about the piece of crap you got suckered into but I doubt that you will ever admit it. Nothing like a convert to carry the banner!

See, here's the thing. I didn't get suckered into anything. I don't own one. But I do own Tesla stock which I've owned long enough I'm still up money on it. :) I only know two people that own them personally, one a Model 3 Performance which he loves, and another, oddly enough, an E-Golf, which he loves. I own a 2015 Cherokee, three older BMWs, a 96 Jeep Cherokee, and my BMW motorcycle.

Here's the other thing, while we looking at assumptions you make about me and my position. I have never said they are right for everyone yet. Certainly not. This "ready for prime time" thing. Theres a curve to these things, like Bare talked about. They are NOT ready to take over 100%, or even 20% or our daily transportation needs. But that doesnt make them junk, nor pieces of crap. For use cases where they work, they work well. Not every nail is a 16d needing a 22oz framing hammer to drive it home. And using a sledge to put in a nail for a picture hanger doesn't make the sledge a bad hammer.
 

phreddyp

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
See, here's the thing. I didn't get suckered into anything. I don't own one. But I do own Tesla stock which I've owned long enough I'm still up money on it. :) I only know two people that own them personally, one a Model 3 Performance which he loves, and another, oddly enough, an E-Golf, which he loves. I own a 2015 Cherokee, three older BMWs, a 96 Jeep Cherokee, and my BMW motorcycle.

Here's the other thing, while we looking at assumptions you make about me and my position. I have never said they are right for everyone yet. Certainly not. This "ready for prime time" thing. Theres a curve to these things, like Bare talked about. They are NOT ready to take over 100%, or even 20% or our daily transportation needs. But that doesnt make them junk, nor pieces of crap. For use cases where they work, they work well. Not every nail is a 16d needing a 22oz framing hammer to drive it home. And using a sledge to put in a nail for a picture hanger doesn't make the sledge a bad hammer.
Thank you for validating my point! Mighty white of you.
 

Kinnakeet

Well-Known Member
Take a breath. And of course your opinion doesn't need facts to be your opinion. But opinions backed by facts get more credit than those backed by memes and outrage.

1. You of course decide what is and isn't a waste of you money.

2. Drilling for oil and such and the materials needed for engines and transmissions also damage the earth.

3. We are now reaching the point where there are enough batteries for recycling to be economically feasible. And we are recycling them. Too valuable to bury. Looks to be about a 90% reuse.

4. The battery cost stories are generally all from older very low volume vehicles so that price data is a bit skewed. Of course, modenr batteries should last 300-500k, so most people will never face that problem.

5. Fossil fuel power plants operate far more efficiently than ICE vehicle engines. A natural gas power plant is about %42 efficient, while the average road car ranges between 20%-35%. So while you are still burning, its less than if you used that fuel for powering vehicles directly. And the real answer for that point is to make a whole lot of nuke plants and good renewables paired with storage.

6. How long it takes to charge is a variable. At home, 6-8 hours if you were low. And for the 85% of owners who charge at home, that's fine. Few people travel more than 30-40 miles a day so it takes far less time to top off. On road trips, a level three charger like a Tesla Supercharger, of which they just announced there are 40,000 of in the world, with installs increasing more rapidly all the time, you can get the charge you need in the amount of time it takes for a snack and bathroom break.

7. Can you find charging stations, well, that depends on what you buy. With Tesla, its easy. Just enter your destination and the car simply plots your route and shows you where and for how long you need to charge. And the health of each individual charger and how busy it it is monitored in real time and used to plot your route. Other makes, not so much since they rely on a patchwork of spotty charging networks. But that should get better for them as time goes on.

8. Batteries, well, Teslas newer packs have a design life of 300-500k. Other makers using pouch cells? No idea, but more makers are adopting hard cylindrical cells which should have good life.

9. Parts? Depends on the part. And as time goes on, aftermarket parts makers will make more parts for them. Like any new thing, taks time to get enough installed base to make manufacture of aftermarket parts feasible.

10. Yep, some catch on fire. Corrected for quantity, far less than ICE vehicles. And when they do, they generally do so in such a way that the occupants have plenty of time to pull over and safely escape. No explosions. Hitting a tree at 100mph will break a pack open, however.

I have links to prove all these points if you are interested.
Not interested fact is ICE vehicles are way better than EV's thats my opinion and they are never going to amount to anything atleast it aint happening in our lifetime
 

Kinnakeet

Well-Known Member
Concur, I've always said that the market si strong enough that the govt needs to get its damn thumb off the scale. That way the infrastructure can grow as market presence does. As for charge time, well, that goes back to use case. I spend 8-10 minutes gassing up around town three or four times a month. 40 minutes a month that I get back if I just plug in when I get home. If I spend some of those on road trips, thats cool with me, but everybody is different.


We'll see how the semi things work out soon, Pepsi is deploying the Tesla Semi in a couple of weeks. Those others, those will have to wait for a more energy dense solution, batteries as we know them simply wont do it. I post what I know. If you view those posts as lame, not my problem. EVs are here to stay, if that bugs you, that again is your problem. :)
What happens if you run out of power is there a tow truck that is going to bring you a charge the answer is no you will be towed to the station or wherever so you can recharge your toy car its not going to work and as soon as the GOP gets back in control it really isnt going to workI assume you must have a electric vehicle because of the way you defend them thats ok Ill stick to pollution vehicles
 

Kinnakeet

Well-Known Member
So what would a truck like yours cost new? The current crop of EV trucks won't help. We don't have final cost or performance figures for the top end Cybertruck yet but it's supposed to have 500 or better for range, a 14k tow capacity and 3.5k payload.
Tow range and payload how long because that max is going to strain the batteries big time and you wont get as far as a ICE truck some people have tested their new for EV f150 and many have said it was a waste of money
 

Sneakers

Just sneakin' around....
What happens if you run out of power
1st off..... PLEASE learn to use punctuation. Commas are your friend.

2nd, what happens if your ICE runs out of gas?

3rd, if you're dumb enough to let your ICE or EV run out of gas/charge, you deserve to be inconvenienced just for being stupid.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
What happens if you run out of power is there a tow truck that is going to bring you a charge the answer is no you will be towed to the station or wherever so you can recharge your toy car its not going to work and as soon as the GOP gets back in control it really isnt going to workI assume you must have a electric vehicle because of the way you defend them thats ok Ill stick to pollution vehicles
Not interested fact is ICE vehicles are way better than EV's thats my opinion and they are never going to amount to anything atleast it aint happening in our lifetime
Tow range and payload how long because that max is going to strain the batteries big time and you wont get as far as a ICE truck some people have tested their new for EV f150 and many have said it was a waste of money
Welcome to the party.........

1. If you buy the right one, it plans your route so this doesnt happen on longer trips. And during regular driving, you should be watching your usage like any gas tank. When's the last time you ran out of gas?
a. Nope, sure dont own one. Do have one on order that I might receive in late 23 or early 24.
b. Go right ahead, I like choice and am fine if you want that. I'll always have a couple around myself.
2. Well, if you think your opinion rises to facts. Better depends on what you want, of course. For you, maybe ICE is better, but you are not everyone.
3. I agree the Lightning F-150 is a crappy execution. Ford screwed up by choosing the path of converting the ICE f-150 into an EV. That conversion path means its less efficient than a clean sheet design would be.
4. My post related to the Tesla Cybertruck. Which folks mock for looking crazy, but those looks derive from a desire to both do truck stuff and be efficient. Exoskeleton, huge castings, structural battery pack. These design features let you use a smaller battery and get still get greater range.
5. Battery degradation is a thing, true. But not as much as people think. And we dont have data on newer designs, which improve over time so EVs made today should suffer less than older ones. A lot of people try and equate Nissan Leaf data to modern EVs, and they dont really cross.
 

phreddyp

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
So far in this whole EV thing the ONLY things that makes any sense at all is how Dominos is planning to have an EV delivery fleet.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
So far in this whole EV thing the ONLY things that makes any sense at all is how Dominos is planning to have an EV delivery fleet.

Ask Pepsi in a few months. They are taking delivery of their first Tesla semi trucks Thursday. And they make sense for quite a lot of folks. Friend of my sons, has an E-Golf with like 100 miles of range. had it for two years now. He commutes from Adkins Road to just north of Leonardtown daily. Plugs it in when he gets home, never visits a gas station. For longer trips, he and the girlfriend have I think a RAV4.

Its all about use cases, and the notion that if a product doesn't fit 100% of all possible use cases it sucks and is a failure is a pretty big logic gap. That's why we have Nissan Versas and Ford Expeditions on the road. Expedition sucks to take one person 10 miles to work, Versa sucks to take five people even two miles to work.
 
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