Fairtax, for or against?

aps45819

24/7 Single Dad
I think the public would be more aware of how much we pay in taxes if we saw it printed on every reciept.
 

tater

New Member
I think the public would be more aware of how much we pay in taxes if we saw it printed on every reciept.

ok.... that is true. :confused:

So would people that don't currently pay taxes. (i.e. - some illegals, drug dealers, ho's, people with a pile of money but no "income".)

And.. it would be nice to not have any "withholding" forcibly taken out of our paychecks too :wink:
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
I was for it, but I keep hearing about a lot of issues. Like...

1. While the tax rate would be 23%, apparently there would actually be a 30% tax depending on how it is calculated.
2. The supporters of the tax say we'll be paying less for goods because there's an imbedded cost of manufacturers and suppliers paying taxes, and once the taxes are removed the price of goods and services will drop. But what's going to ensure that happens? There's nothing that requires retailers to lower their prices, so why should they?
3. With a 23-30% sales tax, isn't there going to be a demand for a vast black market of off-the-book sales, just as we now have for off-the-books labor?
4. The fair taxers say we'll get rid of the IRS, but we're still going to need a huge organization to track and collect the new taxes won't we?
5. The current income tax was established by an ammendment to the Constitution, and would require another ammendment to end it. Would we be able to get that? If we don't we'll have a consumption tax and an income tax.
 
T

Toreadoralpha

Guest
There are too many that have vested interest in the current tax structure to ever allow a change as massive as this. It simply will NEVER happen.

We can't even get rid of automatic witholding, which would cause a huge revolt when people had to start actually sending a payment to the government, rather than having it taken from them. Uncle Sam knows that in order to get paid, he has to force taxpayers to comply.
 

awpitt

Main Streeter
PREMO Member
5. The current income tax was established by an ammendment to the Constitution, and would require another ammendment to end it. Would we be able to get that?
The ammendment authorized an income tax. It doesn't require us to have one so the income tax could be via legislation. It would take an ammendment to make sure it doesn't come back.
 

tomchamp

New Member
I was for it, but I keep hearing about a lot of issues. Like...

1. While the tax rate would be 23%, apparently there would actually be a 30% tax depending on how it is calculated.
2. The supporters of the tax say we'll be paying less for goods because there's an imbedded cost of manufacturers and suppliers paying taxes, and once the taxes are removed the price of goods and services will drop. But what's going to ensure that happens? There's nothing that requires retailers to lower their prices, so why should they?
3. With a 23-30% sales tax, isn't there going to be a demand for a vast black market of off-the-book sales, just as we now have for off-the-books labor?
4. The fair taxers say we'll get rid of the IRS, but we're still going to need a huge organization to track and collect the new taxes won't we?
5. The current income tax was established by an ammendment to the Constitution, and would require another ammendment to end it. Would we be able to get that? If we don't we'll have a consumption tax and an income tax.
All these are answered in the book linked in post 14
I read the book twice...It will do away with the IRS.
 
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T

Toreadoralpha

Guest
Neither the "Fair Tax" or the "Flat Tax" plans have a snowball's chance in hell of becoming reality.

Politicians as a whole on both the left and the right know that they don't need to perform a major overhaul of the tax system used by the federal government. Here is why:

1. The politicos don't need to make a huge change, because the majority of Americans are not clamoring for a huge change.

2. Most Americans are not clamoring for a huge change to the tax laws because they are:

A. Ignorant about the tax structure.
or
B. Apathetic about the tax structure.
 

tater

New Member
I was for it, but I keep hearing about a lot of issues. Like...

1. While the tax rate would be 23%, apparently there would actually be a 30% tax depending on how it is calculated.
2. The supporters of the tax say we'll be paying less for goods because there's an imbedded cost of manufacturers and suppliers paying taxes, and once the taxes are removed the price of goods and services will drop. But what's going to ensure that happens? There's nothing that requires retailers to lower their prices, so why should they?
3. With a 23-30% sales tax, isn't there going to be a demand for a vast black market of off-the-book sales, just as we now have for off-the-books labor?
4. The fair taxers say we'll get rid of the IRS, but we're still going to need a huge organization to track and collect the new taxes won't we?
5. The current income tax was established by an ammendment to the Constitution, and would require another ammendment to end it. Would we be able to get that? If we don't we'll have a consumption tax and an income tax.

1: It is 23%. It just depends on whether you do the calculation as INCLUSIVE or EXCLUSIVE. It works out exactly the same. This is one of the most erroneous arguements there is.

2: It's the power of competition. Never underestimate it. There is a perfect example with the airlines several years ago. There was a tax dropped off for them and at first, they were all trying to keep their prices the same to beef up the bottom line. Then one used the leeway to gain a competitive edge, and in no time, they were ALL back down to the same margin as they were before.

3: Sure there will be people trying to cheat... just as they are now... but it will take TWO people to cheat. The consumer AND the business. Most retailers are NOT going to risk their company to save you a buck.

4: They will simply incorporate a system that will work much the same way state tax is collected at the point of sale right now. The government will reimburse the retailer a small percentage for their "handling" or "passing it along to the Treasury" charge. They won't need a huge organization.

5: If you were to read the bill.... or the book... you would find out that one of the things that will have to happen before the Fairtax can be enacted is the repeal of the 16th amendment.

I highly recommend getting and reading the Fairtax book. They are also coming out with a new book "Answering the critics" Feb 15th. The hardest part about getting this passed is going to be power hungry politicians and the average person that is completely content with the current crushing 66,000 pages of confusing tax code we have now. If the people get behind it, the politicians will HAVE to listen. Look what happened with the McCain-Kennedy Amnesty debacle a few months back. It WOULD HAVE passed if not for the average person getting on the horn and saying enough is enough! And to the naysayers that say "it won't happen"... I'm sure people said that about flying like a bird in a machine, or going to the moon, etc, etc.

Please read the bill/book :wink:
 

tater

New Member
Neither the "Fair Tax" or the "Flat Tax" plans have a snowball's chance in hell of becoming reality.

Politicians as a whole on both the left and the right know that they don't need to perform a major overhaul of the tax system used by the federal government. Here is why:

1. The politicos don't need to make a huge change, because the majority of Americans are not clamoring for a huge change.

2. Most Americans are not clamoring for a huge change to the tax laws because they are:

A. Ignorant about the tax structure.
or
B. Apathetic about the tax structure.

Believe me... the clammoring is snowballing. People have it soooo wrong about Huckabee (love him or hate him). The pundits seem to think his popularity is due to him being an Evangelical... I'm telling you... it's the Fairtax. I read the book and it made my jaw drop. Then, I told my co-workers about it, now there are three people I work with in line to read it. I told my sister about it, she bought one, and she told her friend about it and is going to let her borrow it when she's done. And so on and so on and so on. It CAN happen.
 
T

Toreadoralpha

Guest
Believe me... the clammoring is snowballing. People have it soooo wrong about Huckabee (love him or hate him). The pundits seem to think his popularity is due to him being an Evangelical... I'm telling you... it's the Fairtax. I read the book and it made my jaw drop. Then, I told my co-workers about it, now there are three people I work with in line to read it. I told my sister about it, she bought one, and she told her friend about it and is going to let her borrow it when she's done. And so on and so on and so on. It CAN happen.
I appreciate your enthusiasm on the subject. I'm not against the "fair tax", and yes I read the book. I believe the status quo of the tax law in this country is not going to be overcome. I wish that was not the case, but haven't seen anything that gives me reason for optimism on this matter.

As for the argument about, people thought man wouldn’t fly etc… that is an apples and oranges comparison. Technological advancement is ongoing, major political upheavals are rare in this country.
 
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