Fasting

2ndAmendment · Mar 9, 2005

There are a lot of misconceptions about fasting. In the Bible, Jesus tell His disciples that some demons are very hard to cast out and can only be done so through pray and fasting, so fasting is definitely Biblical. Now...

Fasting should be your choice. Someone cannot direct you to fast. If you fast because someone told you to do it to make yourself "holier" or to "earn" or "be worthy" or the like, it is worthless unless it is your free will choice. You want to do it, and it is not to earn anything or be anything except be closer to God in your thoughts. Prayer and fasting go together. You fast something, it can be anything, food, TV, movies, anything you would normally do and spend time doing and take that time and devote it to worship and prayer.

Fasting does not have to be for extended periods. One meal, one episode of your favorite TV show, one night out, or if you so choose, 40 days and 40 nights like Moses and Jesus did. The point is, it is what you choose, not what someone else chooses for you, for the period of time you choose and you use that time for getting closer in your relationship to God.

That is Biblical fasting; it is attitude and devotion, giving up not to get anything except closer in your personal relationship with God.

rraley · Mar 9, 2005

So, 2A, it seems that you got some issues with the Roman Catholic faith, eh?

2ndAmendment · Mar 9, 2005

rraley said:
So, 2A, it seems that you got some issues with the Roman Catholic faith, eh?

I have no issues with Christians. It is my opinion that some religions have diverged from the Bible. Some more than others. The important thing is whether you have Jesus, God come as man, as your Savior and Lord. Everything else is just stuff that we shouldn't argue about. You say "tumato" and I say "tamato".

There are some things that Catholics do that conflict with the Bible; idols, praying to saints, repetitive prayer (rosary), and the like. But there are things that the church I go to emphasizes too much like speaking in tongues. I have the gift, but scripture does not say that everyone that receives the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues. It does say that speaking in tongues is an evidence of being empowered by the Holy Spirit. The Jehovah's Witnesses say you have to call God, Jehovah. But the God of Christians, Catholic, Pentecostal, or other Christian Churches is the God of the Jews. The Jews never spelled out the whole name of God because it is too holy. They spell it YHWH. Interestingly, there is no letter J in Hebrew, so how do you get Jehovah or Jesus? In Hebrew Jesus' name is Y'shua pronounced Yeshua (you may see spelled both ways but there is no letter e in Hebrew either) and after much prayer, I believe the name of God is Y'howah pronounce Yehowah which fits YHWH without the vowels. We get the J from the English translation of the Greek as I understand it, but there is no J in Greek either.

Anyway, I know you are a devout Catholic and I am glad for you. If you have Y'shua as Savior and Lord, I freely accept you as my brother in Christ. I may not like your politics, but I love you in Christ as my brother.

Bustem' Down · Mar 9, 2005

I don't believe in the speaking of tounges at all. One thing that has never sit well with me is the belief in the bible verbatim. I think that like Jesus used parables to to teach lessons, the bible is one large parable. Fasting I have never felt does the purpose people say it does, anytime I have fasted, there is nothing going through my head but where'sa my next meal, and not any kind of spirit.

rraley · Mar 9, 2005

2ndAmendment said:
Anyway, I know you are a devout Catholic and I am glad for you. If you have Y'shua as Savior and Lord, I freely accept you as my brother in Christ. I may not like your politics, but I love you in Christ as my brother.

Same for me...I just saw this as a veiled insult to my religion. Thanks for the karma and the nice little statement.

2ndAmendment · Mar 9, 2005

Bustem' Down said:
I don't believe in the speaking of tounges at all. One thing that has never sit well with me is the belief in the bible verbatim. I think that like Jesus used parables to to teach lessons, the bible is one large parable. Fasting I have never felt does the purpose people say it does, anytime I have fasted, there is nothing going through my head but where'sa my next meal, and not any kind of spirit.

That's too bad. A lot of people don't believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I can tell you it is not something you control. If the Holy Spirit gives you the gift of tongues or another gift, you have it. Period. It does not make you special; it makes you a tool of the Holy Spirit. When you know you are a tool for God, the hard part is yielding your own will so you can be effectively used. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are real, are scriptural, and the Bible says that as the last days get closer, the gifts will be poured out on mankind more and more. It also says that in the last days there will be those that practice a form of religion but deny its power. The power is the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only sin that is not forgiven.

I believe in the Bible word for word. Jesus only spoke in parables to people He did not expect to understand. He spoke to His disciples plainly just as the Bible does to us. Sometimes Christians may not understand something because it is not to be revealed yet. People of the world who do not know Jesus personally don't understand the Bible at all, don't accept it, think it is a fairy tale. That is because the Bible is of the spirit and things of the spirit cannot be appraised by those that are not of the spirit.

If you don't understand the Bible, it may be that you don't really have a relationship with God. I don't know, only you and He know. Just food for thought.

Bustem' Down · Mar 10, 2005

2ndAmendment said:
That's too bad. A lot of people don't believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I can tell you it is not something you control. If the Holy Spirit gives you the gift of tongues or another gift, you have it. Period. It does not make you special; it makes you a tool of the Holy Spirit. When you know you are a tool for God, the hard part is yielding your own will so you can be effectively used. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are real, are scriptural, and the Bible says that as the last days get closer, the gifts will be poured out on mankind more and more. It also says that in the last days there will be those that practice a form of religion but deny its power. The power is the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only sin that is not forgiven.

I believe in the Bible word for word. Jesus only spoke in parables to people He did not expect to understand. He spoke to His disciples plainly just as the Bible does to us. Sometimes Christians may not understand something because it is not to be revealed yet. People of the world who do not know Jesus personally don't understand the Bible at all, don't accept it, think it is a fairy tale. That is because the Bible is of the spirit and things of the spirit cannot be appraised by those that are not of the spirit.

If you don't understand the Bible, it may be that you don't really have a relationship with God. I don't know, only you and He know. Just food for thought.

I don't have a relationship with god. I don't judge anyones beliefs, they are thier own. Me personally, I see all religions as pretty much the same, they all teach a code of ethics that are fundamentaly the same. I'm satisfied with my position in life as is and don't feel the need to change it. I did my hunt for faith when I was younger and found nothing, but I don't feel empty.

Hello6 · Mar 10, 2005

Thanks 2A, I didn't intend to make my question an opportunity for people to take shots at you though. I just wanted some insight on the topic and wanted to compare the thought process between an anorexic and someone who would do it for "holy" reasons.
And what is up with the talking in tounges too? As the president of the Luther Leauge, we'd go and visit different churches and I saw some chick get down and funky with the Lord, supposedly. Quite frankly, it just sounded like she was talking about Scooby Doo alot.

2ndAmendment · Mar 10, 2005

Hello6 said:
Thanks 2A, I didn't intend to make my question an opportunity for people to take shots at you though. I just wanted some insight on the topic and wanted to compare the thought process between an anorexic and someone who would do it for "holy" reasons.
And what is up with the talking in tounges too? As the president of the Luther Leauge, we'd go and visit different churches and I saw some chick get down and funky with the Lord, supposedly. Quite frankly, it just sounded like she was talking about Scooby Doo alot.

Tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit. It may be a language of some other country or it may be "the tongues of angels", but it is real. Some churches let it get out of control. I feel that way about my church sometimes. Paul actually warns against too many people speaking in tongues without having someone who has the gift of interpretation of tongues. People who are empowered by the Holy Spirit often pray in tongues. It is the Holy Spirit praying through our mouths for things we my not even be cognizant of in our lives or the people around us. It is this that I think is allowed to get out of control. Too many people praying in tongues in church when the prayer is for themselves on someone else and not for the whole church.

I have been blessed with several gifts at various times; tongues, translation of tongues, and prophesy. If you want to learn more about the gifts of the Holy Spirit read the second chapter of Acts which is where the gift of tongues is first given to people and 1 Corinthians chapters 12 through 14 for all the gifts. These are just two of the places the gifts are discussed in the Bible. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are different from the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

somdcrab · Mar 10, 2005

i wish 2a would fast the misguided opinions and lack of knowledge because someone told him he was holier for expressing them :killingme

somdcrab · Mar 10, 2005

HollowSoul · Mar 10, 2005

fasting is basicly just a way to purge your body and spirit if impurities/sins

Hello6 · Mar 10, 2005

2ndAmendment said:
If you want to learn more about the gifts of the Holy Spirit read ....

Nah... I'll just bug you and get the Cliff's notes of it.

willie · Mar 10, 2005

2ndAmendment said:
But there are things that the church I go to emphasizes too much like speaking in tongues. I have the gift, but scripture does not say that everyone that receives the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues. It does say that speaking in tongues is an evidence of being empowered by the Holy Spirit.

Just what is "speaking in tongues"? A rational explanation, please.

2ndAmendment · Mar 10, 2005

willie said:
Just what is "speaking in tongues"? A rational explanation, please.

It is where a person speaks in a language they do not know.

Acts 2:1-36
1When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
2And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
3And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
5Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven.
6And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language.
7They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans
8"And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born?
9"Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia.
10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11Cretans and Arabs--we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God."
12And they all continued in amazement and great perplexity, saying to one another, "What does this mean?"
13But others were mocking and saying, "They are full of sweet wine."

Peter's Sermon

14But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: "Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words.
15"For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day;
16but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
17'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;
18EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN,
I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT
And they shall prophesy.
19'AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE
AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW,
BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE.
20'THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS
AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD,
BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.
21'AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.'

22"Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--
23this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.
24"But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.
25"For David says of Him,
'I SAW THE LORD ALWAYS IN MY PRESENCE;
FOR HE IS AT MY RIGHT HAND, SO THAT I WILL NOT BE SHAKEN.
26'THEREFORE MY HEART WAS GLAD AND MY TONGUE EXULTED;
MOREOVER MY FLESH ALSO WILL LIVE IN HOPE;
27BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES,
NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.
28'YOU HAVE MADE KNOWN TO ME THE WAYS OF LIFE;
YOU WILL MAKE ME FULL OF GLADNESS WITH YOUR PRESENCE.'
29"Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
30"And so, because he was a prophet and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE,
31he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY.
32"This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses.
33"Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear.
34"For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says:
'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
"SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
35UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET."'
36"Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ--this Jesus whom you crucified."

dems4me · Mar 10, 2005

I believe in this to a point.... and as 2A and I have discussed in private. I believe in speaking of tongues but I don't believe that is THE ONLY edification of having received the Holy Spirit. I believe there are other gifts.... alot of people are turned off of certain denominations because of this belief and that they cannot speak in tongues. It is just one of the many spiritual gifts... I strongly believe that speaking in tongues is NOT the THE ONLY edification of having received the Holy Spirt... and the belief that one has NOT received the Holy Spirit if they do not utilize or can't utilize that particular gift. It is my firm belief that there are many gifts that have been bestowed to the children of God but I don't believe in a list which which ones proove edification of the Holy Spirit and which one's don't (i.e... must speak in tongues, if anything this makes people pschosematic and hypersugestible to any gibberish conjured up by overy christmatic-cism.)... I feel they are many gifts mentioned in the Bible... I don't feel that speaking tongues should be the-must-have-American-Express-Card-to-eternity-and-true-Christianity - there are other gifts that are equally important. JM5C... Dems

2ndAmendment · Mar 10, 2005

dems4me said:
christmatic-cism.)... I feel they are many gifts mentioned in the Bible... I don't feel that speaking tongues should be the-must-have-American-Express-Card-to-eternity-and-true-Christianity - there are other gifts that are equally important. JM5C... Dems

Absolutely. Actually, speaking in tongues is considered a minor gift with prophesy being considered a greater gift.

1 Corithians 12:1-14
1Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware.
2You know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led.

3Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

4Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.

6There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.

7But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.

8For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;

9to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,

10and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

11But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

12For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ.

13For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

14For the body is not one member, but many.

Bustem' Down · Mar 10, 2005

Hello6 said:
Thanks 2A, I didn't intend to make my question an opportunity for people to take shots at you though. I just wanted some insight on the topic and wanted to compare the thought process between an anorexic and someone who would do it for "holy" reasons.
And what is up with the talking in tounges too? As the president of the Luther Leauge, we'd go and visit different churches and I saw some chick get down and funky with the Lord, supposedly. Quite frankly, it just sounded like she was talking about Scooby Doo alot.

I'm not taking shots at anyone. I believe I said...

Bustem' Down said:
I don't judge anyones beliefs, they are thier own.

dems4me · Mar 11, 2005

Hello6...

I think the difference between an anorexic and a person fasting has to do with motives... the anorexic person is doing it to loose weight and that is their primary motive (albeit control) ... the person fasting is doing it as a term of religious sacrifice. The anorexic also has a severely distorted body image and the religious faster generally does not... Hope that helped some :huggy:

Hello6 · Mar 11, 2005

Bustem' Down said:
I'm not taking shots at anyone. I believe I said...

Didn't say you were taking shots. It was a precautionary apology for any crap he'd get for answering my question. Usually I don't have anything nice to say about his bible stuff but he is, pardon the pun, well versed in his knowledge of the book.

And Dems, I suspect that the fasting and speaking in tounges hinge from a mental illness, and wanted to see what spin the bible had put on it (fasting, at least)

Fasting

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