Foolish and Stupid Arguments

[PsyOps]

Flee the evil desires of youth and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. - 2 Timothy 2:22-24

That is all...

 

[ItalianScallion]

If that was the only verse in the Bible you'd be right but, since it isn't, what does it mean to you (in context of course)?

 

[Larry Gude]

Psy, I think only through having engaged in quarrels, through being foolish and stupid, does a person gain the wisdom and experience to become a teacher.

 

[PsyOps]

If that was the only verse in the Bible you'd be right but, since it isn't, what does it mean to you (in context of course)?

Psy, I think only through having engaged in quarrels, through being foolish and stupid, does a person gain the wisdom and experience to become a teacher.

I agree with both of you because the bible states:

"Open rebuke is better than secret love." - Proverbs 27:5

However, regarding biblical matters:

“If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. – Matthew 18:15-17

But we’re commanded to be kind and gentle when we have these discussions:

"Be kind and tender to one another. Forgive each other, just as God forgave you because of what Christ has done" – Ephesians 4:32

Brothers, even if a person is caught in some transgression, you who are spiritual should correct that one in a. gentle spirit, looking to yourself so that you also may not be tempted." – Galatians 6:1

I’m not trying to say I have the best, or even the right, approach. But what I’m seeing in the discussions in this religion forum is bothering me. Human nature forces us to act with emotion. But that emotion seems to take front seat to biblical teachings. I agree in philosophy with most of what IS and Star say. But your approach pushes people away. And I don’t really want single you out. This is educational for me as well. I work on my tone every day and fail often. But one thing I NEVER want to come across as is being judgmental and assuming I know the status of one’s salvation.

The foolish and stupid argument is not disputing certain questionable practices; it’s casting stones that don’t belong to any of us.

 

[Starman3000m]

There is Only One Truth

Sometimes there really is no nice way to convince people they are on the wrong track if they don't want to accept truth - as noted by Jesus' own account:

For example:

The "religious folk" took exception and were offended at the Truth of Jesus’ Words:

Matthew Chapter 13:

53 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence.
54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

And many others who were uncommitted in faith and had personally walked and heard Jesus left Him

John Chapter 6:

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

 

[ItalianScallion]

But we’re commanded to be kind and gentle when we have these discussions:
I’m not trying to say I have the best, or even the right, approach. But what I’m seeing in the discussions in this religion forum is bothering me. Human nature forces us to act with emotion. But that emotion seems to take front seat to biblical teachings. I agree in philosophy with most of what IS and Star say. But your approach pushes people away. And I don’t really want single you out. This is educational for me as well. I work on my tone every day and fail often. But one thing I NEVER want to come across as is being judgmental and assuming I know the status of one’s salvation.

I know exactly where you're coming from BUT (as I've said before) if your verse was the only one in the Bible, you'd be right. When the Bible says to do it both ways, we must understand that it means. It means there is a time to be stern and a time to be gentile. That is what many here cannot seem to accept.

Think of Jesus' methods.
Then consider John the Baptist methods.
Then consider Paul's methods. All 3; Often loving but sometimes stern. My "tone" has nothing to do with me judging anyone. I present the truth, disagree with the lies and content boldly for the faith. I don't start the name calling nor do I call people here bigots or hateful.

I do wish you'd stop saying that I'm judging someone's salvation here because I have no authority to. However, it's often the logical conclusion when someone (like Bob) states that "my Jesus" is not God and a fake. I do know that God will make the final judgment on him, not me. Besides; if I make them uncomfortable with their beliefs, it might make them re-think them...:shrug:

Psy, I know that you know that we don't need to throw verses around here for each other BUT you cannot ignore these few verses w/o changing the context of the Bible:

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household." (Matthew 10) [Even being nice doesn't guarantee a civil discussion]

17 "We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge and you did not mourn.

For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He has a demon. The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners but wisdom is proved right by her actions.” (Matthew 11)

11 "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them". (Ephesians 5) [No one who gets "exposed" to the light always remains civil...]

10 "For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group. They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain...This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth". (Titus 1) [Paul said "rebuke them" how?]

15 "...These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you". (Titus 2) [That means (sometimes) boldness is warranted...]