For all those who accused me of Campaigning

[ladyhawk]

Did anyone go to the operations forum today? I heard from a friend that the GM gave a talk about operations today. I also heard that there were only four people who showed up to hear him. On top of that I heard that there were two board members outside but never went in to hear what the GM had to say. :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: Is there any truth to this? And if so what is their reasoning for avoiding the session? :shrug:

First of all key words, "THERE WERE ONLY FOUR PEOPLE". It may help you to know that those four people were two married couples, two finance people and their spouses. The GM was showing some powerpoint presentation I wasn't interested in seeing.

The other board member was our Treasurer and we came expecting to see new faces and possibly even answer some member questions. Where were you? At least the treasurer and I discussed some items that were pertinent to an upcoming meeting that we are working on! We may not have been in the meeting but at least we were there!

I just think its funny you are this concerned about a meeting you didn't attend yet you judge us based on comments you heard from someone else..

Hmmm....

 

[ladyhawk]

Oh one other thing...

IT WAS TRUE!

 

[ladyhawk]

And in case you missed the other post...
Here it is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyuntiedFC
I have looked at the changes in the budget over the past couple of months.... if the Board would take the time to go over it without being led by Finance or the GM... I think we can get to where we need to be....

So now the plan is to cut the Finance Committee and the GM out of the process altogether? Isn't the BOD supposed to listen to advice of these people not to ignore them as seems to have been the case by several members of the board. They are trying but it seems to this member that no matter what they suggest someone wants to tell them to go away. Is there a reason why no one really wants to listen to them?




You must pretty upset that we didn't sit and watch the powerpoint presentation you did! Why don't you come out and say you are either one of the finance people or possibly the spouse or maybe the GM, as those were the five people in the room?

Its pretty clear to me you seem upset that we have issue with a budget that has a lot of discrepencies in it. I would think any member would have issue with it as well. We aren't ignoring anyone on our finance committee that I am aware of. I have come to believe that maybe they aren't getting the information that they need to present a proper budget and thats not their fault nor is it the Boards fault. As a Board member, I don't work for the staff, I don't work for the committees. I work for the membership and will continue to do so with the decisions I MAKE!

June
Secretary

 

[residentofcre]

Its pretty clear to me you seem upset that we have issue with a budget that has a lot of discrepencies in it. I would think any member would have issue with it as well. We aren't ignoring anyone on our finance committee that I am aware of. I have come to believe that maybe they aren't getting the information that they need to present a proper budget and thats not their fault nor is it the Boards fault. As a Board member, I don't work for the staff, I don't work for the committees. I work for the membership and will continue to do so with the decisions I MAKE!

June
Secretary

Well said June...I feel the same way....Becky Tice Director

 

[residentofcre]

First of all key words, "THERE WERE ONLY FOUR PEOPLE". It may help you to know that those four people were two married couples, two finance people and their spouses. The GM was showing some powerpoint presentation I wasn't interested in seeing.

The other board member was our Treasurer and we came expecting to see new faces and possibly even answer some member questions. Where were you? At least the treasurer and I discussed some items that were pertinent to an upcoming meeting that we are working on! We may not have been in the meeting but at least we were there!

I just think its funny you are this concerned about a meeting you didn't attend yet you judge us based on comments you heard from someone else..

Hmmm....

I was cleaning house [I work full time so Saturday is chores day], raking the leaves in my yard [in accordance with the Covenants], spending some quality time with my husband and daughter [since I do give the association about 20 hours a week I do try to give my family at least 5 hours], and working on the re-write of a P&P for the association that was supposed to be completed by the last board but got put on the back burner because of the budget and debate about fee increases.

I am so sorry I didn't make the meeting. I do the best I can...

As a matter of fact, I believe there are at least five of us on the Board who are dedicating a substantial amount of hours, effort, and deliberation on behalf of the membership that they represent. Three of them are on line with you in these forums. One of them is not computer savey but he is constantly reading the back-up information, talking to staff and members to make sure the decisions he makes are for the best interest of the Association. The Treasurer is extremely busy trying to match actuals to proposed budget projections [along with comparing the several proposed budgets to track the variances].

I'm sure others are busy as well but I wanted to show you that the majority of the Board is working to make good things come about. It's very difficult to work when you have to avoid snipers.

In my opinion, this Board is working together as a team. The main focus is the Best Interest of POACRE.

If there are members of the Committees or Staff who feel that we have overstepped our authority in the actions taken, I would love to hear from them at directortice@yahoo.com . I will be happy to pass their written concerns on to the rest of the Board for discussion in open session.

 

[exnodak]

I'm new to the thread, but not new in CRE. I think there are a lot of people that misinterpret the covenants and bylaws. They are available for all to read at the POACRE website. Before anyone gets on a thread and starts moaning about the actions of the management board, they need to be informed about the limits of the Board's powers.

The covenenants, in plain english, define the fees and how they are to be applied.

The bylaws, also in plain english, define membership in CRE and how its applied.

The two are distinctly different concepts in the legal documents. Membership is in no way dependant on M&O or Road fees other than establishing "Member in good standing" as described in the bylaws. The levels in each of these is a matter of covenant change which, to date, has proved impossible. Changing bylaws cannot change the covenants.

Some persons seem to take liberties and try to put these documents in a salad bowl to come up with some authority that does not exist, or conversely they do the same thing to come up with some way to argue that there is NO authority. Neither extreme makes sense.

The concept of one vote no matter how many properties is necessary. That is the only way that the membership can be assured that any one entity can't get absolute control. For example: The POACRE owns more than 500 individual properties. What kind of nightmare would we have if the Board were allowed a vote on each of those properties that they could cast as they see fit? It would create an absolute power compelling outside forces to pack the Board with their cronies. I don't think that would wash.

The incorporated association concept which creates a private entity to perform government function is a good one so long as there is member involvement. Once complacency sets in the system devolves as it has, and member rights get silently crushed. This place is just too big for an association to manage and so we should be looking for alternative ways to create agencies to provide our government functions.

 

[FlyuntiedFC]

First of all key words, "THERE WERE ONLY FOUR PEOPLE". It may help you to know that those four people were two married couples, two finance people and their spouses. The GM was showing some powerpoint presentation I wasn't interested in seeing.

The other board member was our Treasurer and we came expecting to see new faces and possibly even answer some member questions. Where were you? At least the treasurer and I discussed some items that were pertinent to an upcoming meeting that we are working on! We may not have been in the meeting but at least we were there!

I just think its funny you are this concerned about a meeting you didn't attend yet you judge us based on comments you heard from someone else..

Hmmm....

Other than you and Becky, everyone else on this forum chooses to remain anonymous. I have that right to remain so and choose that route. If you don't accept that then fine and get over yourself.


WHY WERE YOU NOT INTERESTED IN THE PRESENTATION?

As for your ignoring of the forum, that just goes to show that you don't really care. Different perspectives are important. If you have the answers please enlighten those of us as to what they might be.


Does this mean that even the four who did show are not important enough to converse with or answer questions of? You say that you discussed items between you and the treasurer. Ok that's your choice. But do those items pertain to what was offered up in the forum? What meeting are you talking about? Not another "administrative session"? That's a topic for another time. However, if you were there you could have shown the courtesy of at least acknowledging those who did show, not dismissing them as "two members of the finance committee and their spouses".

As for your quote about expecting new faces, does that mean that those who do show up at meetings and forums don't count? Sometimes even those people have questions that might have bearing on what is discussed.

 

[FlyuntiedFC]

And in case you missed the other post...
Here it is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyuntiedFC
I have looked at the changes in the budget over the past couple of months.... if the Board would take the time to go over it without being led by Finance or the GM... I think we can get to where we need to be....

So now the plan is to cut the Finance Committee and the GM out of the process altogether? Isn't the BOD supposed to listen to advice of these people not to ignore them as seems to have been the case by several members of the board. They are trying but it seems to this member that no matter what they suggest someone wants to tell them to go away. Is there a reason why no one really wants to listen to them?




You must pretty upset that we didn't sit and watch the powerpoint presentation you did! Why don't you come out and say you are either one of the finance people or possibly the spouse or maybe the GM, as those were the five people in the room?

Its pretty clear to me you seem upset that we have issue with a budget that has a lot of discrepencies in it. I would think any member would have issue with it as well. We aren't ignoring anyone on our finance committee that I am aware of. I have come to believe that maybe they aren't getting the information that they need to present a proper budget and thats not their fault nor is it the Boards fault. As a Board member, I don't work for the staff, I don't work for the committees. I work for the membership and will continue to do so with the decisions I MAKE!

June
Secretary

Ok so you feel that Finance committee is receiving the wrong information. Do you go to the finance committee meetings? How do you know that they are not getting the right information if you don't go? You say you work for the membership and not the committees. While that is technically true, the people who make up the committees ARE members too. The committees are in place to advise the BOD and to listen in return to what the DOD has to say.
The original question still stands about quote above about the "cutting out the Finance Committee and the GM". That was a quote from a previous posting in this forum.

If you don't give directions or ideas and simply nitpick and say this wrong all the time and NOT offer solutions or answers, then let the committees do their jobs. If the information is wrong find out why they are being given wrong information and correct the problem, not whine about it.

 

[punchbuggy]

to flyunitedpc

THANK YOU! I couldn't have said it better myself! Hope we can hear what questions are asked instead of who didn't vote for what! Who What When Where Why? No question is a stupid one!

 

[Flyonthewall]

THANK YOU! I couldn't have said it better myself! Hope we can hear what questions are asked instead of who didn't vote for what! Who What When Where Why? No question is a stupid one!

Exactly! Our biggest issue is perception/PR. Stop throwing darts and work on real solutions. Involve the membership and find out what the consensus is. Stop using inflammatory language and work on finding the best way to get the job done.

Once decisions are made, follow up on them to ensure they are done properly and keep track of successes and failures for the next generation of BoD's and management.

Let's stop going in circles and reinventing the wheels and learn from history.

 

[residentofcre]

THANK YOU! I couldn't have said it better myself! Hope we can hear what questions are asked instead of who didn't vote for what! Who What When Where Why? No question is a stupid one!

I appreciate where y'all are coming from... honest I do...

That said may I ask two questions?

Who is that we can turn to when we consistantly vote in a direction, explaining what the problem is and where we will end up if we continue down the path we are on?

After we have detailed and explained the history in depth and charted out a new course, who will assist us in changing the course when those who don't want to change path keep insisting that we have not answered the question of why to their satisfaction?

I think that is where the Board is now. We are in the phase of charting a new course based on the information from the membership, committee, and staff, stuck in non-disclosure in some cases, bringing as much information as possible into the sunshine in other cases, and patience is at an all time low while anxiety is running high. In other words.... I don't believe I am making excuses when I say we are doing the best we can.... we know you are depending on us.... hang on just a little while longer....

The meeting on September 15th should be very enlightening.

 

[ladyhawk]

I have been addressing two key issues. One is with our budget. That is currently being looked at. I've also made a comment regarding why everyone on the board and the finance committee can't seem to agree... It might help if the finance committee had the correct figures. We are also working on that. Its hard to come up with solutions until you can see a clear picture. The picture is getting clearer at least it has for me over the last few weeks or so... I just hope the members see it to.

And whining.. Yes I guess I have a little. It pains me to see a group of people bust their butt to really make a difference and then be punished for it. Everyone should be following procedure. They are in place for a reason. Had these precedures been followed properly, I'm sure we wouldn't be in the situation we are in.... So If I want to whine, I have a right to just as you do...

June

 

[ladyhawk]

I've been to most of the meetings since the new board was installed, (actually from the first one the same day as the election in July). I have seen nothing get done, constant bickering and backstabbing amongst the board members. It seems to me that the board does NOT want the membership involved. By having to fight for the right to speak (witness the fight for the suspension of the rules this past meeting), it seemed to me that the President did not want the members to talk, and only very reluctantly let them have the floor. The board meeting do not allow member comments anymore or only reluctantly. It makes the members wonder exactly what agendas the board has or is harboring.

I think this is a perfect example of someone who doesn't put all the information out there. First and foremost, yes Our president did this but you neglected the part where many board members got just as upset over the situation as the members did... Then a motion was made from the table to open the floor, and quickly seconded by many board members....

Maybe you just see things differently than most...Amazing....

June

 

[residentofcre]

I think this is a perfect example of someone who doesn't put all the information out there. First and foremost, yes Our president did this but you neglected the part where many board members got just as upset over the situation as the members did... Then a motion was made from the table to open the floor, and quickly seconded by many board members....

Maybe you just see things differently than most...Amazing....

June

Perhaps this is just how the member sees it....

 

[ladyhawk]

Perhaps this is just how the member sees it....

You're killing me! I actually know who this is because she got mad and accused me of whacking her. She contradicted herself and got caught. I don't believe it is how the member sees it, I believe in this case its how she wants others to see it. All I did was point out the truth and because you feel sorry for her, you should know the truth. She is just trying to stir up trouble where there shouldn't be.

The board has done nothing wrong with exception to denying the requests of special interests. The board is trying to do things the way we are suppose to be doing it. Not the way someone else wants us to do it. I know others have seen it, I just don't understand how you can't see it.

You should remember one thing. When we sit at the table making decisions for the community, we have no friends. By considering the wants of your friends and family, you are not doing things for the membership as a whole! And yes, My husband and I have had a few differences regarding some of the covenants, bylaws and rules and regs. How can we not. It's part of the job we volunteer for. It only matters that we do the right thing.

June

 

[Flyonthewall]

You're killing me! I actually know who this is because she got mad and accused me of whacking her. She contradicted herself and got caught. I don't believe it is how the member sees it, I believe in this case its how she wants others to see it. All I did was point out the truth and because you feel sorry for her, you should know the truth. She is just trying to stir up trouble where there shouldn't be.

June

Be careful, Ladyhawk. Flyuntied isn't female, so referring to "her" is incorrect.

 

[FlyuntiedFC]

You're killing me! I actually know who this is because she got mad and accused me of whacking her. She contradicted herself and got caught. I don't believe it is how the member sees it, I believe in this case its how she wants others to see it. All I did was point out the truth and because you feel sorry for her, you should know the truth. She is just trying to stir up trouble where there shouldn't be.

The board has done nothing wrong with exception to denying the requests of special interests. The board is trying to do things the way we are suppose to be doing it. Not the way someone else wants us to do it. I know others have seen it, I just don't understand how you can't see it.

You should remember one thing. When we sit at the table making decisions for the community, we have no friends. By considering the wants of your friends and family, you are not doing things for the membership as a whole! And yes, My husband and I have had a few differences regarding some of the covenants, bylaws and rules and regs. How can we not. It's part of the job we volunteer for. It only matters that we do the right thing.

June

You know something, when YOU make assumptions, you make an ass out of you and me. Be very careful what you say about people, especially when you don't know everything. Maybe you think that because you hold the community's future in your hands gives you the right to look down on the membership. You may think the the great unwashed should not be privy to great and momentous decisions you have to make. It's too bad that you feel this way.
You look down on the rest of us and tend to treat everyone as if they are bug to squished. Those of us who take an interest should be encouraged and not treated like we are apian on your butt.
Because you don't know who I is, you cannot make this accusation and not look like fool. Remember you work for us not for your own agenda.

 

[FlyuntiedFC]

Perhaps this is just how the member sees it....

Ladyhawk this is quite rude, the member is entitled to their opinion. If Becky chooses to view this as is then she is entitled to do so. Lighten up.

 

[ladyhawk]

Point taken

June

 

[BookWurm788]

New thread time?

The elections are over at CRE and there are a number of issues that POACRE members are concerned about, so is anyone interested in starting a new thread(s)? If so, please let us know the topic(s) and we can continue discussing our issues there.

Bookwurm788