R
residentofcre
Guest
willie said:
Oh I hope not!
Oh I hope not!
ladyhawk
New Member
"So you agree with the new M&O Fee? Also do you agree with the 800.00 transfer fee? I would like to know your reasoning on thinking that these fees are for the good or bad for the community."
Okay, lets address these items seperately!
Raising the M&O fee?
I would have to agree with this. There are a lot of difficult decisions and raising fees is always going to be one of them. You try not to dig deeper into peoples pockets if you can help it but based on what I have been hearing, this is something that may be necessary for POACRE's future.
The M&O Fee increase would cover maintenance costs to all of our amenities. As an example, I don't like paying these fees any more than the rest of you. But, rather than have the situation we had with the campgrounds and stables happen again, its a way to prevent our smaller amenities from being abused and forgotten! I have always believed that our M&O Fee should provide for free usage to ALL the amenities. The only time anyone catches me at the Lake or at our beaches is when I have a camera in my hands! The only amenity I do use is our stable. With one horse at 100.00 each, I pay an additional $300.00 per month on top of my M&O fee and of course thats my choice, I could have stopped with one, but well, if you knew me you'd understand..... We horse owners also share the mowing, weed eating and other duties required to maintain that amenity. We don't get reimbursed monetarily, but it feels really good when you find out that the amenity you do participate with is truly self supporting. And it gives us a chance to teach people about our horses! We even have room to modify our stable budget if we need to!
Compare that to those people who use the Lakes and beaches. They don't pay any parking or admission fees but only pay the M&O Fee. On top of that, they don't have to really do much more than show up, have a great time and pick up after themselves then go home. They don't have to pay an additional $100 to $300 to enjoy the facility! Granted they don't use the stables, but I don't use the lakes and/or beaches...but thats my choice! And the maintanance and upkeep is done for them out of our M&O Fees!
Because the lake and beaches are more popular than other amenities, most of our money goes into the maintenance of them. Well, sorry there are other amenities that were severely neglected and because of it, it cost the association more money to bring them back from the dead because they were so neglected!
Okay let me address the next question (this one will be a little shorter) LOL
Okay, lets address these items seperately!
Raising the M&O fee?
I would have to agree with this. There are a lot of difficult decisions and raising fees is always going to be one of them. You try not to dig deeper into peoples pockets if you can help it but based on what I have been hearing, this is something that may be necessary for POACRE's future.
The M&O Fee increase would cover maintenance costs to all of our amenities. As an example, I don't like paying these fees any more than the rest of you. But, rather than have the situation we had with the campgrounds and stables happen again, its a way to prevent our smaller amenities from being abused and forgotten! I have always believed that our M&O Fee should provide for free usage to ALL the amenities. The only time anyone catches me at the Lake or at our beaches is when I have a camera in my hands! The only amenity I do use is our stable. With one horse at 100.00 each, I pay an additional $300.00 per month on top of my M&O fee and of course thats my choice, I could have stopped with one, but well, if you knew me you'd understand..... We horse owners also share the mowing, weed eating and other duties required to maintain that amenity. We don't get reimbursed monetarily, but it feels really good when you find out that the amenity you do participate with is truly self supporting. And it gives us a chance to teach people about our horses! We even have room to modify our stable budget if we need to!
Compare that to those people who use the Lakes and beaches. They don't pay any parking or admission fees but only pay the M&O Fee. On top of that, they don't have to really do much more than show up, have a great time and pick up after themselves then go home. They don't have to pay an additional $100 to $300 to enjoy the facility! Granted they don't use the stables, but I don't use the lakes and/or beaches...but thats my choice! And the maintanance and upkeep is done for them out of our M&O Fees!
Because the lake and beaches are more popular than other amenities, most of our money goes into the maintenance of them. Well, sorry there are other amenities that were severely neglected and because of it, it cost the association more money to bring them back from the dead because they were so neglected!
Okay let me address the next question (this one will be a little shorter) LOL
Last edited:
ladyhawk
New Member
"So you agree with the new M&O Fee? Also do you agree with the 800.00 transfer fee? I would like to know your reasoning on thinking that these fees are for the good or bad for the community."
Okay, lets address these items seperately!
The $800 dollar Transfer fee?
I'm against this simply because it will be more difficult to sell our homes. As it is the bad press the community seems to get, has never looked good. Things like this tend to keep our property values down. Some people I know moved here because it was all they could afford.
The seller will lose $800 off the top or have to charge the buyer to cover the costs. This will bring selling prices up but may cause people to look elsewhere because they don't want to pay it. After some time, the property ends up as a rental because they can't sell it then we end up with unregistered tenants unless we make the property owner responsible for these fees like we do with any other violation to their properties. This is why you won't have rusty fences, sheds or a bunch of junked cars sitting around at your neighbors house, unless of course you prefer it that way. You have to complain, security doesn't see everything! Since the member is responsible for the upkeep of their property they won't allow a tenant to remain that is going to cost them more money! At the same time it helps protect the neighboring property values. In order for this to work properly the rules have to be applied properly without prejudice which has been difficult at times. Hopefully, with our new management and the help of others in our community we have gotten past the buddy system.
Selling was good last year. But if you drive around right now, you will see a lot of homes up for sale, the market seems to have slowed down significantly.
And if you think about this in the long term... Will this result in POACRE becoming a "rental community" rather than a home owners association? It's s omething to think about...
Okay, lets address these items seperately!
The $800 dollar Transfer fee?
I'm against this simply because it will be more difficult to sell our homes. As it is the bad press the community seems to get, has never looked good. Things like this tend to keep our property values down. Some people I know moved here because it was all they could afford.
The seller will lose $800 off the top or have to charge the buyer to cover the costs. This will bring selling prices up but may cause people to look elsewhere because they don't want to pay it. After some time, the property ends up as a rental because they can't sell it then we end up with unregistered tenants unless we make the property owner responsible for these fees like we do with any other violation to their properties. This is why you won't have rusty fences, sheds or a bunch of junked cars sitting around at your neighbors house, unless of course you prefer it that way. You have to complain, security doesn't see everything! Since the member is responsible for the upkeep of their property they won't allow a tenant to remain that is going to cost them more money! At the same time it helps protect the neighboring property values. In order for this to work properly the rules have to be applied properly without prejudice which has been difficult at times. Hopefully, with our new management and the help of others in our community we have gotten past the buddy system.
Selling was good last year. But if you drive around right now, you will see a lot of homes up for sale, the market seems to have slowed down significantly.
And if you think about this in the long term... Will this result in POACRE becoming a "rental community" rather than a home owners association? It's s
omething to think about...
ladyhawk
New Member
Becky is correct in that Board members are ALL volunteers. But they are not the only volunteers. As she states there are others out there that care enough about the community to put many hours of their own personal time into helping out! I wish I could list them all by name, Becky included.residentofcre said:
I don't know why someone has to hide behind Karma... Who and what are you afraid of?!!
Believe it or not, I know many volunteers, and for them, the volunteer work they do is a job to them. 40 hours a week with no pay but they get enjoyment from the thank you's and smiles from other community members that take the time to care. So those of you that meet a volunteer (forget about me, I sometimes don't like volunteering!
) and remember to tell them thank you! Oh and those little thank you's and smiles can make a very big diffence in someones day even when they seem to be in a very nasty mood!
Last edited:
R
residentofcre
Guest
On that we definitely agree!ladyhawk said:Becky is correct in that Board members are ALL volunteers. But they are not the only volunteers. As she states there are others out there that care enough about the community to put many hours of their own personal time into helping out! I wish I could list them all by name, Becky included.
I don't know why someone has to hide behind Karma... Who and what are you afraid of?!!
Believe it or not, I know many volunteers, and for them, the volunteer work they do is a job to them. 40 hours a week with no pay but they get enjoyment from the thank you's and smiles from other community members that take the time to care. So those of you that meet a volunteer (forget about me, I sometimes don't like volunteering!
June has been doing an excellent job for a number of years chairing the Violations Task Force now known as the Compliance Committee.
FastCarsSpeed
Come Play at BigWoodys
LOL there is all kinds of grey karma going around.
June,
Thank you for the answering my questions. I would love to see the other board nominee's show up and post some their comments to the issues. We don't need to get into name calling or he said she said but just the facts and issues we have in front of us.
June,
Thank you for the answering my questions. I would love to see the other board nominee's show up and post some their comments to the issues. We don't need to get into name calling or he said she said but just the facts and issues we have in front of us.
ladyhawk
New Member
FastCarsSpeed said:
You are quite welcome. I have my own stands on different issues that I feel very strongly about. It may take a lot in common sense and solid reasoning from the other side to get me to budge, but as I said before, its the only way to change my mind on anything. And then its only a matter of convincing others why they should change theirs! And this can sometimes prove to be a challenge!
I was truly surprised that someone here questioned my opinion and I guess I have to apologize for that! Forums can get pretty nasty and I've seen people tear each other completely apart. Thus the reasoning of having moderators. I don't think that people should be permitted to be nasty to others...
FastCarsSpeed
Come Play at BigWoodys
Yes I can definitely understand that. We just built our house in CRE and are considered one of the 400K homeowners that I guess can afford this new rate hike which is about dead wrong in my book. I will be voting against the increase this year as I from what I see I feel that there needs to be more fiscal responsibility on how CRE is run. I am going to get involved and understand the issues and maybe I will see it differently once I see the whole picture. I think it was a very bad idea to put those items in the ballot without any thing in previous newsletters making it apparent that these were going to come up.ladyhawk said:
You need to educate the voters before they are going to vote for things like this. 3 paragraphs in a voting ballot is not going to cut it.
R
residentofcre
Guest
Actually, in fairness, I should say that the President did put something in his comments about the rate hike all through the year. It was there but it was not in depth and never really explained that it was going to occur.FastCarsSpeed said:
Over the next year it would be nice to see a plan developed.... with the amenity the cost, the upgrades possible, and some way to give feedback [either through the website or at the open meetings]. The members would be informed, involved, and ready to make a decision.
I don't mind spending money if I know what I am buying and I have had an opportunity to shop around.
At the same time though... I think the members would also like a real report on the streamlining of Operations Costs that are being done and the funds that have been saved by doing so that they will see how much could be put toward the maintenance by 2009. Then if the members really think we need a rate increase in 2009 they will ask for one. They will suggest it. It will be time for one.
What do you have to say about those suggestions June?
Last edited by a moderator:
ladyhawk
New Member
Everyone always comes up with a plan.. I've seen three of them since I've lived here. I've yet to see one followed.residentofcre said:
I would love that we could set up a business plan and follow it. I can't even begin to imagine how much better this place really could be! But as I've seen suggested... If each amenity could have operational and expense accouting, we could really see where improvements in our finances could be made! On top of that, people would see which amenities cost them the money!
But the real question would be...
How would we force our association to follow this to the letter? Everytime our Board and/or management changes, so do the plans and goals. Then these become stagnant, changed or get forgotten about all together! And I'm sorry, Municipality is not the answer!
I would love to have the things you have publically wished for but as I stated in an earlier post, we have to fix what we have first. Once we get everything back up "to par" and we have funds, we can attack one thing at a time. The biggest thing I think any future board should seriously look into is using the easement we have to putting in sidewalks before someone is killed by the speeding cars... Remember they are not all "new drivers"! I have seen some people our age and older barreling down our roads.
Speaking of which...
This is not directed to all of you responders out there, I just needed to get this message across to those would be "heros" before someone is hurt or killed. I realize that some of you already get this idea!
First and foremost, THANK YOU to all of you that provide emergency services to protect the rest of us! (My emotions won't allow me to help you...)
To those would be "Heros"....I would like to point out that we do not have four lane highways and our roads are very narrow. People are out this time of year especially in the late afternoon walking, playing and merging from North Catalina onto Catallina...... I think you get it by now... PLEASE SLOW DOWN, give us just a few more seconds to get out of your way.... I realize that every second counts but not if you end up hitting someone or losing control of your own vehicle going along Golden West Way.. Believe it or not, this slows your response time worse than anything else especially, if you do hurt someone.... Something I think you "hero type" responders should seriously think about....
R
residentofcre
Guest
News about the Petition
Sorry to break the rythm of the thread but....
There was a Special Meeting of the Board tonight regarding information regarding the Petition.
For those of you who don't know, a Petition was circulated to oust five of the members of the Board. Three of us. Jack Richardson, Dianne Schmidt, and I, are up for re-election so the results of the Ballot would supercede the ballot. The other two, Carl Swick and Michelle James would still be seated on the Board for another year so they would be affected by the petition.
Under the current provisions of the Bylaws or Procecedures a petition must have 100 signatures by members in good standing to proceed.
In order to be a member to be in good standing all the fees must be paid.
When the information that was given to the Board originally, there were indeed over 100 signatures. However, after verification of each signature, the Petition fell well short of the required 100 signatures. This verification was accomplished by staff.
Think of this it this way. CRE is a corporation. In order to change the structure of the Board of the corporation you must own a share of stock in the corporation. In order to own that share of stock you must purchase it annually. Less than 100 corporate shareholders had actually signed the petition.
So after all the embarrassment and discussion the Petition Failed... but it did bring about a lot of discussion and that is always an excellent result.
Sorry to break the rythm of the thread but....
There was a Special Meeting of the Board tonight regarding information regarding the Petition.
For those of you who don't know, a Petition was circulated to oust five of the members of the Board. Three of us. Jack Richardson, Dianne Schmidt, and I, are up for re-election so the results of the Ballot would supercede the ballot. The other two, Carl Swick and Michelle James would still be seated on the Board for another year so they would be affected by the petition.
Under the current provisions of the Bylaws or Procecedures a petition must have 100 signatures by members in good standing to proceed.
In order to be a member to be in good standing all the fees must be paid.
When the information that was given to the Board originally, there were indeed over 100 signatures. However, after verification of each signature, the Petition fell well short of the required 100 signatures. This verification was accomplished by staff.
Think of this it this way. CRE is a corporation. In order to change the structure of the Board of the corporation you must own a share of stock in the corporation. In order to own that share of stock you must purchase it annually. Less than 100 corporate shareholders had actually signed the petition.
So after all the embarrassment and discussion the Petition Failed... but it did bring about a lot of discussion and that is always an excellent result.
Last edited by a moderator:
R
residentofcre
Guest
Ok... June... I have no idea where you were going with that but I think maybe I can guide you to where I was heading...ladyhawk said:Everyone always comes up with a plan.. I've seen three of them since I've lived here. I've yet to see one followed.
I would love that we could set up a business plan and follow it. I can't even begin to imagine how much better this place really could be! But as I've seen suggested... If each amenity could have operational and expense accouting, we could really see where improvements in our finances could be made! On top of that, people would see which amenities cost them the money!
But the real question would be...
How would we force our association to follow this to the letter? Everytime our Board and/or management changes, so do the plans and goals. Then these become stagnant, changed or get forgotten about all together! And I'm sorry, Municipality is not the answer!
I would love to have the things you have publically wished for but as I stated in an earlier post, we have to fix what we have first. Once we get everything back up "to par" and we have funds, we can attack one thing at a time. The biggest thing I think any future board should seriously look into is using the easement we have to putting in sidewalks before someone is killed by the speeding cars... Remember they are not all "new drivers"! I have seen some people our age and older barreling down our roads.
Speaking of which...
This is not directed to all of you responders out there, I just needed to get this message across to those would be "heros" before someone is hurt or killed. I realize that some of you already get this idea!
First and foremost, THANK YOU to all of you that provide emergency services to protect the rest of us! (My emotions won't allow me to help you...)
To those would be "Heros"....I would like to point out that we do not have four lane highways and our roads are very narrow. People are out this time of year especially in the late afternoon walking, playing and merging from North Catalina onto Catallina...... I think you get it by now... PLEASE SLOW DOWN, give us just a few more seconds to get out of your way.... I realize that every second counts but not if you end up hitting someone or losing control of your own vehicle going along Golden West Way.. Believe it or not, this slows your response time worse than anything else especially, if you do hurt someone.... Something I think you "hero type" responders should seriously think about....
Year before last the Finance Committee spent Association money to have a Replacement Reserve Study drawn up.
Supposedly this report is a list of all the assets of CRE. If we use this as the foundation we can start the short term plan I was talking about.
Oh... and you say you never saw a plan work... Andy Cribbs, Kermit Dyke, and Gary Wendt got together and drew up a plan to pave the main roads in CRE called the Special Taxing District [which I understand you support]... although it is taking much more time and costing a lot more than they planned we are still paving to their list. For that matter, the ABC plan that I talked them into adding to the Special taxing district as a way to prioritize the storm water management is still working too.
Plans that have both short term goals and long term goals seem to work. No plan will work that does not have the backing of the membership. The problems we are having with the Special Taxing District now is that the majority of the membership no longer understands where it is going. They no longer understand what it is. The community has grown much to fast and there has been insufficient communication. They are being taxed for something that they have not been included in. It's a good program that has not been explained properly. That is a communication problem not a plan problem.
Oh I should mention to everyone that on top of chairing the VTF June is also responsible for the website poacre.org. So I guess you can say that the major source of communications in CRE are the Round Up Times and June's Website!
Is that what you were getting at?
ladyhawk
New Member
There was another replacement reserve study done by Pete Carmichael and some others when I was on the board.. What happened with that one?residentofcre said:
I wasn't talking about a roads plan. I was talking about an overall plan for the community. I believe the STD was part of one of those, and its the only thing I think we continued to follow. I will continue to be behind the STD if thats what it will take to get our roads paved. If nothing else, it helps us focus on other roads using the money in our roads budget!
Actually the communication problem is why we have seen at least three or four plans so far.
Thank you but I'd prefer this be kept quiet...LOL
ladyhawk
New Member
I assume you meant to say there is a Special Meeting of the board...?residentofcre said:
Would you happen to know the time? I got a phone inquiry about it and she couldn't remember what it said either...
I didn't get an agenda but I'm figuring that Kathy is still out of town.
Thanks!
R
residentofcre
Guest
It was Tuesday Night June... but I know you are aware of that because you made it to the finance committee meeting tonight.ladyhawk said:
June actually brought someone to the meeting who has experience in servers. I would love to know what he found out after the General Manager let him look over the estimate that made up the $12,000.
Good to see you again....
ladyhawk
New Member
Actually, FastCarsSpeed told me the same thing my husband told me.. I thought that the price was a bit outrageous which is why I started questioning things.. One problem is you can't always rely on your spouse for the answer even if they are knowlegable because of the way it looks...residentofcre said:
You could just go on Dell's website and price one out... All you need is a small business server.. Oh and don't forget the software (and beware of incompatibility...That can be a real pain and sometimes get even more costly...)
June
R
residentofcre
Guest
If you can't rely on the man you are going to spend the rest of your life with, especially when they are particularly knowledgeable in a subject, who else are you supposed to depend on June?ladyhawk said:
According to the documents I have seen, the Accounting will all be done through the new VMS. I specifically asked if it was compatible with TOPS and was told that we would not longer be using TOPS and would be using VMS on-line. That means we would be doing all the accounting back-ups on-line.
That leaves the back-ups for the Special Taxing district in-house. The Office software in-house... and that's it....
Nope I go back to my original thoughts... the IT guy is part of the cost and the Server cost is inflated to cover his costs....
The whole budget is worrisome to me.... I truly believe we can make it one more year... and come up with a real budget that can be verified.... Not a last minute "oh if we had x amount of money we would have some breathing room so let's work to that amount" budget.
I still say if we want to ask for a budget increase then we should be working on a budget... a real budget... in November... not June or July... That's Ludicrous...
FastCarsSpeed
Come Play at BigWoodys
EXACTLY!!!! I don't mind paying more but I want a complete understanding on what is going to be done. Also I want a schedule on when things will be done and how long they will take.residentofcre said:The whole budget is worrisome to me.... I truly believe we can make it one more year... and come up with a real budget that can be verified.... Not a last minute "oh if we had x amount of money we would have some breathing room so let's work to that amount" budget.
I still say if we want to ask for a budget increase then we should be working on a budget... a real budget... in November... not June or July... That's Ludicrous...
I do not want them coming in and saying for 109.00 we will get say a gym "Someday". No I want exact cost when the funding will be available and how long it will take to do these things.
R
residentofcre
Guest
I've been doing some thinking about you....Nucklesack said:
Did you know that when you are a homeowner and you have 4 grown children who all drive you have to pay an additional fee for each one of those children? It's no different than a tenant fee....
The owner of the rental is only paying to register the extra people who are living within CRE... so if that is so... then yes I for abiding by the current bylaws...
Pull up the Bylaws... a membership in CRE only covers 2 adults... anyone else in your family [or group and let's say it's a group of 5 co-workers who decide to go together and buy a house] that is over the age of 18 is required to pay an Associate fee of $75.00. Now if you are a tenant couple [or you double up a couple of your associates] you can get them for $108.00 and save a few dollars... but yes... it's a fact they are already doing it and have been all along...
Do I think it's fair? Nope... But I don't think it's fair not to allow Motorcycles on the Beach either....
It's a Bylaw... and until the membership comes before the Board to change that Bylaw I have agreed to work within those Bylaws... and figure out ways to enforce them... no matter how unfair I personally think they are...
That's my real answer... and I hope you get your ballot in by close of business today for all this typing...
R
residentofcre
Guest
OK... my analogy sucks air... let's look at the hypothetical rental property owner...Nucklesack said:
The owner doesn't even make a profit... poor guy... he rents out the house for he cost of the mortage, the taxes [ever rising behind his back], the fees, and the costs of upkeep... and he even kicks in the cost of mowing the weeds because CRE won't let him cut down the trees so the grass will grow... his wife left him and his kids grew up and they went off to medical school on his dime and they don't even send him a season's greetings card anymore....the renters are ok... they pay the rent by the tenth and the check only bounces every now and then... He never even gets by Calvert County anymore let alone going fishing like he planned when he bought the place...and you want to know if I think the renters should have to pay another $108.00 on top of the M&O fee the owner has to pay....
As long as the Bylaws call for the tenants fee... yes...
But... like I said...several posts back I am willing to talk about it... if you are willing to come to the Board and talk about it..... it seems like it's difficult to collect the funds and with the gates down it seems like the associate fee & tenant fee would be more expensive to collect than it's worth but we have to sit down and talk about it... not here in a forum but with the full Board... with pros and cons... facts and figures... and since it's a change to the Bylaws it would require a vote of the membership and that could not occur again until next year... so like I said... these year... you have to pay... to be a member in good standing....