Former Marine Launches Fed. Lawsuit: Banned from La Plata H.S. Property after Objecting to "Islamic

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This just in from the somd.com Headline News:

Title: Former Marine Launches Fed. Lawsuit: Banned from La Plata H.S. Property after Objecting to "Islamic Indoctrination of Daughter"

Date: 01-28-2016 10:22 AM

Summary: A Charles County couple has launched a federal lawsuit against the Charles County Public Schools, the Board of Education, and the Principal and Vice-Principal of La Plata High School for allegedly indoctrinating their daughter into Islam.

Click here for the full story...
 

TheLibertonian

New Member
Oh please. I would do the same thing to show children exactly how the Muslims spread their religion.

It's almost like in history class you teach history, and the history of early islam is conquest and spread.
 

Radiant1

Soul Probe
Oh please. I would do the same thing to show children exactly how the Muslims spread their religion.

It's almost like in history class you teach history, and the history of early islam is conquest and spread.
Sure, but if a parent or student objects, then offer an alternative assignment. They didn't do that.


I have a feeling it was not a calm rational discussion when Dad came to the school and that's why they dug in and refused the alternative assignment and he earned a No Trespass order. I bet the principle regrets that decision now.
 

TheLibertonian

New Member
Sure, but if a parent or student objects, then offer an alternative assignment. They didn't do that.


I have a feeling it was not a calm rational discussion when Dad came to the school and that's why they dug in and refused the alternative assignment and he earned a No Trespass order. I bet the principle regrets that decision now.
I object to do math homework. Guess what; still gotta do it.

This to me, is no different then if a black parent walked in and complained the teaching of the fact that the major provider of slaves to the slave-trade were the western coast tribes of Africa. It's no different then a Jewish parent coming in and complaining of the teaching of the fact that the ancient Israelites kicked a lot of rear end.

History is taught from the standpoint of moral relativism, up to a significant point, because the point is to allow students to digest the facts and come to their own moral and ethical conclusions. It's not my job to tell people slavery is bad, its my job to explain the facts about slavery, the system, and what happened, and let them come to their own conclusions based on fact and reason, not on whether or not I liked slavery or not. Uncontroversial as it is to say "slavery was bad', when teaching a student history that's not my job. I can say the conditions were generally awful in a slave ship, for example, because that's a statement of fact.

Now, trying to explain the differences between roman-grecco slavery and middle eastern slavery and atlantic trade slavery and modern slavery, THAT'S a trickier thing.
 
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Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
History is taught from the standpoint of moral relativism, up to a significant point, because the point is to allow students to digest the facts and come to their own moral and ethical conclusions..


What does your drivel above have to do with this? How does this equate with "teaching history"?

According to a TMLC press release: The Woods' daughter was forced to profess and to write out the Shahada in worksheets and quizzes. The Shahada is the Islamic Creed, "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah." For non-Muslims, reciting the statement is sufficient to convert one to Islam. Moreover, the second part of the statement, "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah," signifies the person has accepted Muhammad as their spiritual leader. The teenager was also required to memorize and recite the Five Pillars of Islam.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
Did anyone look at Exhibit 1 in the link?

Looks like a simple history assignment and a dad that got all butt-hurt thinking the school has some mystical power that he doesn't. Not to mention a crack-pot lawyer:
"Defendants forced Wood's daughter to disparage her Christian faith by reciting the Shahada, and acknowledging Mohammed as her spiritual leader," said Richard Thompson, President and Chief Counsel of the Thomas More Law Center, in a prepared statement. "Her World History class spent one day on Christianity and two weeks immersed in Islam. Such discriminatory treatment of Christianity is an unconstitutional promotion of one religion over another."
I can see it now. If it was a Muslim man bitching about his kids learning about Christianity, this thread would be 15 pages long and full of idiotic statements about how we're a Christian nation, and the father won't win, etc. Instead....well, you see it.

There's a continual double standard that many people on this forum are a part of. Then the mental gymnastics it takes to convince themselves they are freedom lovers and want equality for all is amusing to watch.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
What does your drivel above have to do with this? How does this equate with "teaching history"?
These are simple questions on a worksheet every student had to fill out regarding Islamic history.

I'd be willing to bet that the very teacher that gave her this assignment was, *gasp* Christian.

Does this dad think teaching Islamic history (which is part of World History, no?) is akin to getting Ebola? Is his and his family's faith not strong enough to overcome a simple school assignment that covers Islamic History?
 

TheLibertonian

New Member
What does your drivel above have to do with this? How does this equate with "teaching history"?
Hrm, how about we wait and see context and quotes from the teacher rather then only hearing one side of the story who has clearly an agenda. Let us wait for all the facts of the case to be laid before us prior to making judgement.

But: If it's been stripped of context, then we can't make a judgement.

If it hasn't been, the teacher should be fired.

My bet is that we're hearing the very biased take of one side and have no context beyond what they say, so how about reasonable people wait to call judgment.

Where are all the other complaints? If I saw my child with this sort of material, (Edit for clarification: That is to say, material that actually does what this couple is saying it did.) I would seek heads on pikes. Yet only this couple has complained, and the only evidence they've put forward is completely unverifiable at this point.
 
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Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Hrm, how about we wait and see context and quotes from the teacher rather then only hearing one side of the story who has clearly an agenda. Let us wait for all the facts of the case to be laid before us prior to making judgement.

But: If it's been stripped of context, then we can't make a judgement.
.
LMAO...that didn't slow you down much in your earlier post, now did it?
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
Yet only this couple has complained, and the only evidence they've put forward is completely unverifiable at this point.
While being represented by:
TMLC identifies itself as a national public interest law firm based in Ann Arbor, Michigan, which "defends and promotes America's Judeo-Christian heritage and moral values, including the religious freedom of Christians, time-honored family values, and the sanctity of human life."
No bias there.

I hope this case gets thrown out and the judge makes this guy pay the legal fees for Charles County Public Schools, the Board of Education, and the Principal, Evelyn Arnold, and Vice-Principal, Shannon Morris, of La Plata High School located in La Plata, Maryland.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
These are simple questions on a worksheet every student had to fill out regarding Islamic history.

I'd be willing to bet that the very teacher that gave her this assignment was, *gasp* Christian.

Does this dad think teaching Islamic history (which is part of World History, no?) is akin to getting Ebola? Is his and his family's faith not strong enough to overcome a simple school assignment that covers Islamic History?
"teaching Islamic history" and being forced to recite the phrases one uses to convert to Islam do not strike me as even remotely the same thing. Have students recite Bible verses as part of a "history class" and see how long before the lawsuit shows up.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Since when do they teach religion in school, let alone "immersion"? We had very basic religion as part of world history class when I was a kid, mentioned in context but not "immersed" in. It was not theological at all, and we certainly didn't recite any prayers.

So seriously, when did schools start doing religious instruction? Because my kids didn't have it, either.
 

Radiant1

Soul Probe
I object to do math homework. Guess what; still gotta do it.
The objection was on religious grounds, so simply not liking math doesn't really equate.

Did anyone look at Exhibit 1 in the link?

Looks like a simple history assignment and a dad that got all butt-hurt thinking the school has some mystical power that he doesn't. Not to mention a crack-pot lawyer:


I can see it now. If it was a Muslim man bitching about his kids learning about Christianity, this thread would be 15 pages long and full of idiotic statements about how we're a Christian nation, and the father won't win, etc. Instead....well, you see it.

There's a continual double standard that many people on this forum are a part of. Then the mental gymnastics it takes to convince themselves they are freedom lovers and want equality for all is amusing to watch.
I saw it and I'm in agreement with you. Although the girl may have felt forced to say it to get a grade, it's not as if the kid MEANT what she said so saying she denied her own faith is just kind of silly.

Does this dad think teaching Islamic history (which is part of World History, no?) is akin to getting Ebola? Is his and his family's faith not strong enough to overcome a simple school assignment that covers Islamic History?
I think the stickler is that the time spent on teaching other religions in their historical context was not equal. One day for Christianity (and let's face it, there's A LOT of Christianity in World History) versus two weeks for Islam. This could be construed as an endorsement by certain people.



I don't think Thomas More would pick this up if they didn't think they had a case, but I also think the courts will rule in favor of the school.
 

TheLibertonian

New Member
Let me go over the paper and see if I see anything wrong or factually inaccurate.

Exhibit 1:

Islam Today

2A: Is not really a statement of fact and I personally would have issue with it being said.
2B: This is technically true, but also kind of misleading. More Muslims are Fundamentalist then Christians; that is to say, their are more fundamental islamist then their are Christians.
2C: This is true, though I would say the 60's was the real start of that particular trend.
2D: Another "technically true" but badly misworded. Also not a concept I would sum up in a single dot on a presentation. 2D is something that deserves its own power point slide.
2E: Misworded. Again, fundamentalist in Islam are more common (around ~50% in most Islamic countries). VIOLENT Expansionist fundamentalist do represent a much lower percentage of the overall Muslim population of the world.
2F: That is a Jihad. That's what the word means.
2G: Technically true because they didn't have suicide bombs, but otherwise actually a false statement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahid
2H: This is true. A vast majority muslims are, like the teaming masses of humanity as a whole, living a simple struggle for life. A bit more stark since a lot of high-Muslim countries are less developed.

Islamic Empires:
1A & 1B: True.

Rise of Islam:
Both statements are exact translations.

Beliefs of Islam:
5A: True. All three religions are Abrahamic, with the Muslims believing Abraham being the first prophet of God.
5B: Half-fact, half-fiction, desperately needs expansion and better context. It's like the difference between the Jewish God and the Christian One. While they are the same God, technically speaking, the covenant and rules are different in Islam because of the last Prophet, in the same way Christians have a different covenant then the Jews because of Jesus.
5C: Gross oversimplification.
5D: True.

next post: The homework.
 

Rommey

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
I object to do math homework. Guess what; still gotta do it.
The issue isn't "homework"; its what is being taught. However, generally speaking, math is a well defined concept (well except for the Common Core BS) and the results are generally described in absolutes such as as "right" or "wrong"...there's very little gray area in most math. Religion, even in a historical perspective, isn't usually defined in absolutes such as "right" and "wrong". Religion is conceptual...your beliefs, no matter how "right" they are to you does not mean they are "right" for me.

This to me, is no different then if a black parent walked in and complained the teaching of the fact that the major provider of slaves to the slave-trade were the western coast tribes of Africa.
Really?? For it to be equivalent to your example, the school would have to be actively promoting slavery, not just presenting the historical context of slavery.

History is taught from the standpoint of moral relativism, up to a significant point, because the point is to allow students to digest the facts and come to their own moral and ethical conclusions. It's not my job to tell people slavery is bad, its my job to explain the facts about slavery, the system, and what happened, and let them come to their own conclusions based on fact and reason, not on whether or not I liked slavery or not. Uncontroversial as it is to say "slavery was bad', when teaching a student history that's not my job. Why not? Why can't you say "slavery was bad" and put some context to why it was bad? I can say the conditions were generally awful in a slave ship, for example, because that's a statement of fact.
And how does that equate what is allegedly being taught about Islam in this particular case? I have no problem with teaching all kinds of things in a historical perspective because that's what "history" is...experiences that evolve and shape our understanding of people, places, cultures, and events. On the surface, it appears the school is going a little overboard, not only in the lessons, but the fact that they apparently disregarded the wishes of the parents. Now, I'm not advocating that parents demand that their child be only taught certain things, but when subject touches on religion or morals or ethos, then there are going to be some that will have concerns about what is being taught in school and what is being taught in the home. I don't think its unreasonable for a parent to have some say in what their child is being taught.

I do think that there's more to this story as a school doesn't get a No Trespass order unless things got out of hand. There's no information on that part to make a judgement, so I hope the school just didn't get the order just to avoid the subject.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
I can see it now. If it was a Muslim man bitching about his kids learning about Christianity, this thread would be 15 pages long and full of idiotic statements about how we're a Christian nation, and the father won't win, etc. Instead....well, you see it.
Well, wait a minute. What if the kids were required to recite the Lord's Prayer or make confession? I'm sure a lot of people would be having a problem with that.

Not terribly long ago students and parents were having a fit because a group of kids used the school cafeteria for after school youth group meetings. That one nut sued because he didn't want his snowflake saying "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. So how is it that now, only a few years later, schools are actually giving religious instruction, prayers and all? Why aren't the extremist atheists all over this, considering they gripe about everything else under the sun?
 
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