Fort Myers and Electricity

[SamSpade]

Some time back, my parents died, and I learned that my brother used his inheritance money to buy a new home. He sent pics; one of the features was an enclosed area with a pool, attached to the house. I guess you could say "indoor pool" although that might be stretching it. He had been living in Naples, so I just naturally assumed that, you know, jobs and all, he just got something nearby.

NOPE. The house he bought was in Fort Myers. You may have heard something about it, in the news.

I asked if he was evacuating, and he said he'd lived in Florida some 35 years, and it wasn't his first hurricane. I asked how close are you to the ocean, he told me, hey, I'm not stupid, if I want to see a sunset on the ocean, I *can* drive there. No, I'm a good 30 miles inland.

Briefly talked to him DURING THE HURRICANE - because amazingly, some of the cells towers still worked - and he told me they were out of power. I looked at the apps and saw that the bulk of the storm was past his home by midnight, and he texted back, hurray! Our generator is running, thank God we have AC.

The next day after seeing the wreckage of Fort Myers - I called and asked about his home. "Well Ill have to replace the fence and I lost a few window screens". I thought, damn - I watched video of houses FLATTENED - or floating away.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

HERE'S THE IRONY -

He has enough GASOLINE to run his generator for a while.

Just imagine what his life would be like - if he had an ELECTRIC CAR, ELECTRIC EVERYTHING - and no generator running on gas.
He'd be screwed. Because until you can buy and store electricity that isn't created with fossil fuels - and have ENOUGH of it to run your home when the lines are down - you're going to need fossil fuels. For a long time.

You want evidence? The President is sending relief to Florida. In the form of hundreds of GENERATORS, and they don't run on solar and wind. They run on good old gas.

Because when the chips are down, and you need power, you can't wait for the wind to blow and the sun to come out (and I'm not too sure how good those windmills would have been DURING THE HURRICANE).

 

[Sneakers]

Because when the chips are down, and you need power, you can't wait for the wind to blow and the sun to come out (and I'm not too sure how good those windmills would have been DURING THE HURRICANE).

I've been watching the solar websites. There is a renewed panic to find and buy home-grown solar power systems so they'll have power after another event like this.

Wasted money. These storms are years between events in any one place. You'll spend a small fortune buying and installing panels, electronics, batteries just for the security of it all. In reality, those systems will degrade over years, electronics fail, batteries go flat requiring replacement, and unmaintained systems will be of no use. Not to mention that in a storm like this, the houses were destroyed, roofs ripped off. Solar panels too. Electronics and batteries were drowned.

There are those who will install the solar and use it all the time as a line-power supplement/replacement, and they will be maintained. Theses are the small exception. if they don't get destroyed during a storm, they might be ok.

 

[Sneakers]

Just imagine what his life would be like - if he had an ELECTRIC CAR, ELECTRIC EVERYTHING

Here's a twist on that: one of the things newer electric cars can do is something called V2G, V2H, and V2L. Vehicle to Grid, Home and Load. A fully charged electric car can provide power to the house and devices for quite a while, if used smartly. Except in rare cases like Fort Meyers where everything was flattened, the power is back on before the car is depleted.

The electric car I have on order is supposed to support V2H. If it does, solar panels on the roof will charge the car, and in the event of a power outage, provide power to the house. I might eventually retire the gas generators.

 

[SamSpade]

I've been watching the solar websites. There is a renewed panic to find and buy home-grown solar power systems so they'll have power after another event like this.

Wasted money. These storms are years between events in any one place. You'll spend a small fortune buying and installing panels, electronics, batteries just for the security of it all. In reality, those systems will degrade over years, electronics fail, batteries go flat requiring replacement, and unmaintained systems will be of no use. Not to mention that in a storm like this, the houses were destroyed, roofs ripped off. Solar panels too. Electronics and batteries were drowned.

There are those who will install the solar and use it all the time as a line-power supplement/replacement, and they will be maintained. Theses are the small exception. if they don't get destroyed during a storm, they might be ok.

It seems to me that if you want a backup for a HURRICANE, solar and wind are without question the worst idea you can come up with.
You get a backup on the presumption that you WILL need it - for instance, you do NOT build a tornado cellar if you live in say, the mountains.

I think what flabbergasts me the most about wind and solar (for electricity creation) is, they simply wear out. Which means you run a good chance of NOT getting a return on your investment - ever. You spend a lot of money on a system where you might be better off just pre-paying your electric bill twenty years out.

Solar does a great job heating water - and it doesn't wear out. Wind does a great job turning a mill or pumping water, and it doesn't wear out.
I think if you want to heat or cool your home, you're probably never going to beat a really good geothermal system.

 

[DaSDGuy]

Does anybody with two active brain cells believe solar panels and windmills will survive hurricane force winds? Because it's not gonna happen. If those are your power sources for your homes and yes, your EV's, you are SOL.

 

[vraiblonde]

Here's a twist on that: one of the things newer electric cars can do is something called V2G, V2H, and V2L. Vehicle to Grid, Home and Load. A fully charged electric car can provide power to the house and devices for quite a while, if used smartly. Except in rare cases like Fort Meyers where everything was flattened, the power is back on before the car is depleted.

The electric car I have on order is supposed to support V2H. If it does, solar panels on the roof will charge the car, and in the event of a power outage, provide power to the house. I might eventually retire the gas generators.

I have a question, and this is a real question, not a snark against solar power:

In Maryland there are rainy periods that last a week with no sun. During crazy weather there's not only no sun, but your electricity gets knocked out as well. What do you do then?

Out west there are gobs of people who live off the grid. Solar powered things make more sense there because they have an abundance of it, and their needs are minimal. But most other places in the US don't get enough sun to adequately power their lives. Or am I missing something?

 

[DaSDGuy]

It seems to me that if you want a backup for a HURRICANE, solar and wind are without question the worst idea you can come up with.
You get a backup on the presumption that you WILL need it - for instance, you do NOT build a tornado cellar if you live in say, the mountains.

I think what flabbergasts me the most about wind and solar (for electricity creation) is, they simply wear out. Which means you run a good chance of NOT getting a return on your investment - ever. You spend a lot of money on a system where you might be better off just pre-paying your electric bill twenty years out.

Solar does a great job heating water - and it doesn't wear out. Wind does a great job turning a mill or pumping water, and it doesn't wear out.
I think if you want to heat or cool your home, you're probably never going to beat a really good geothermal system.

Will geothermal work in Florida, the land of the continuous sink holes?

 

[SamSpade]

Out west there are gobs of people who live off the grid. Solar powered things make more sense there because they have an abundance of it, and their needs are minimal. But most other places in the US don't get enough sun to adequately power their lives. Or am I missing something?

Every solar company I've ever looked into asks for your location, so they can give you an answer JUST for this - some areas just aren't going to deliver the wind or solar to make it worth the money.

 

[Sneakers]

In Maryland there are rainy periods that last a week with no sun. During crazy weather there's not only no sun, but your electricity gets knocked out as well. What do you do then?

Solar still makes electric on cloudy days, I've shown that with my test system, just not as much. However, if you've become so dependent on electricity that your life stops, well, you're doing it wrong. You have to have a no-power contingency plan in place. I do.

 

[DaSDGuy]

Solar still makes electric on cloudy days, I've shown that with my test system, just not as much. However, if you've become so dependent on electricity that your life stops, well, you're doing it wrong. You have to have a no-power contingency plan in place. I do.

Me too. I eat the melting ice cream from the freezer 1st.

 

[SamSpade]

Will geothermal work in Florida, the land of the continuous sink holes?

No, of course not. Some years ago, I found a site that specifically listed geographies where you'd get the best return for geothermal. Most of the best areas were in the Midwest - and that would be mostly HEATING.

I don't know what works best in Florida. I was talking to my brother about buried sources for generators, like my neighbor has with his - and he answered (and I smacked my forehead) "you can't really dig a hole at ALL in Florida, Sam". But getting enough HEAT really isn't a problem in Florida. I imagine finding ways to keep cool would be the main interest.

 

[SamSpade]

Solar still makes electric on cloudy days, I've shown that with my test system, just not as much. However, if you've become so dependent on electricity that your life stops, well, you're doing it wrong. You have to have a no-power contingency plan in place. I do.

Since my job depends on the INTERNET - there ain't no such thing. Backup electric IS necessary. But in catatrophes, I don't know what we'd do, because if cell towers and cable is ALSO out, what do I do? Satellite with battery backup?

 

[DaSDGuy]

I make jest sometimes when others would not. Actually, my SOL and myself have life-long friends living in Lee County. It was days before they got a cell signal long enough to let all of us know they survived. No power, little water/food and no roof over their heads. But they are alive and doing well all things considered. They have a long hard road ahead of them to recover.

 

[vraiblonde]

Solar still makes electric on cloudy days, I've shown that with my test system, just not as much. However, if you've become so dependent on electricity that your life stops, well, you're doing it wrong. You have to have a no-power contingency plan in place. I do.

This is another real question:

Could you go one year without using fossil fuels of any kind? Forget plastic and things of that nature, could you go a year without using any gas or oil to fuel/power your life?

I ask because you seem to be more on top of it than most people, plus I know you to be someone who thinks about things and plans for the future. Most people aren't like that - knock out the electricity for a couple of days and they're completely helpless. So could you, Sneakers, go one year right now without any oil or gas?

 

[Sneakers]

Since my job depends on the INTERNET - there ain't no such thing. Backup electric IS necessary. But in catatrophes, I don't know what we'd do, because if cell towers and cable is ALSO out, what do I do? Satellite with battery backup?

In something as catastrophic as Florida, "work" no longer exists. You have other priorities. If your job is disaster relief, there are already contingency plans and backups in place for uninterrupted communication.

 

[Sneakers]

This is another real question:

Could you go one year without using fossil fuels of any kind? Forget plastic and things of that nature, could you go a year without using any gas or oil to fuel/power your life?

I ask because you seem to be more on top of it than most people, plus I know you to be someone who thinks about things and plans for the future. Most people aren't like that - knock out the electricity for a couple of days and they're completely helpless. So could you, Sneakers, go one year right now without any oil or gas?

Good question. Don't really know. It would certainly be a huge paradigm shift, a whole new way of life. The obvious answer is: if it's not available, I have no choice but to do without.

BTW: even if fuel isn't available, I have enough in reserve for cooking and heat for a year for myself, used sparingly. I will survive.

 

[vraiblonde]

Since my job depends on the INTERNET - there ain't no such thing. Backup electric IS necessary. But in catatrophes, I don't know what we'd do, because if cell towers and cable is ALSO out, what do I do? Satellite with battery backup?

Two years ago when South Padre Island got nailed with extreme cold and all the utilities were out for three days, even though there are copious windmills and sunshine, the folks who came through the best had a full tank of gas in their car. Charge your phone, go get groceries, warm up.....

That was an eyeopening experience for me.

 

[GURPS]

Satellite with battery backup?

Starlink

 

[Sneakers]

Starlink

I've been happy with mine, especially when I see all the Breezeline posts....

 

[GURPS]

we are starting to deploy SL instead of VZ or Comcast at job sites