Freedom of Speech

[mudpuddle]

With these high profile cases, such as with Paula Dean and now Donald Sterling just to name a few...do you think America is losing it's right for Freedom of Speech?
If one wants to be a racist, and verbalizes it, isn't that a personal choice and not a crime? I don't mean in cases such as in the work force as an employer to an employee... and I'm not talking about racist hate crimes... Don't we have the right to be who we really are? If you don't like other races outside of your own, can this be considered a crime? Can one control how he/she really feels about other races than their own?
I do believe that racism comes from the environment -where and when you were raised but I also think, that it is in our DNA (seriously) and is reinforced through one's culture and beliefs while being raised....
Your thoughts and behavior are you, and then you express them to the world....don't we have the right to express ourselves? Especially in conversations or wherever else we chose?
I really think we are losing our right to Freedom of Speech! What would America be like if we keep losing our rights?

 

[mamatutu]

Yes, we still have the right to freedom of speech, but it is censored by whomever is in power at the time. Which doesn't make sense, really, if you want to follow the Constitution. It all boils down to politics. Politicians are in it for themselves, and not the United States/us, no matter how they tout that they will represent us. On a side, there are still a few good men, so to speak. That is why it has become so convoluted, corrupt, and hypocritical. We happen to have a current POTUS that doesn't believe in the ideals of the United States, and is changing it every which way he can. That is why this administration has been so difficult, and positively scary. America has survived bad times before, and she will survive this catastrophe called Obama. The Constitution will rule and override Obama's cell phone and pen. When we get rid of PC (politically correct) things will get back to normal, but the status quo won't change if Americans don't get out to vote in the upcoming elections. There are 535 members of Congress, a POTUS, a VP, and others that advise, or hold Cabinet position. and don't forget the Jarretites. Think about how few people compared to the population of America control what happens to us. Truly scary. There is still hope for change. JMO

 

[mudpuddle]

I wasn't really thinking of politics, or with Obama. I was thinking of expressing one's thought on a smaller scale...such as in a private conversation, at activities, or functions, etc....wherever there are people gathered....

 

[mamatutu]

I wasn't really thinking of politics, or with Obama. I was thinking of expressing one's thought on a smaller scale...such as in a private conversation, at activities, or functions, etc....wherever there are people gathered....

OK. I wrote a novella on the subject! Sorry, I got carried away! But, what do you think? Do you feel when you express your opinion in the situations you refer to that you are losing your right to free speech? Do people question what you say, or say you are wrong?

 

[mudpuddle]

OK. I wrote a novella on the subject! Sorry, I got carried away! But, what do you think? Do you feel when you express your opinion in the situations you refer to that you are losing your right to free speech? Do people question what you say, or say you are wrong?

Oh, I am so happy you wrote your opinion!!!! Write away!!!!
I would never say anything negative about another race in public--knowing I would get crucified for it! It really isn't safe to express negative thoughts against races in public. I only feel free in the comfort of my own home! And when we were raising our kids, we were always careful not to degrade any race or religion to them or in front of them!

 

[mamatutu]

Oh, I am so happy you wrote your opinion!!!! Write away!!!!
I would never say anything negative about another race in public--knowing I would get crucified for it! It really isn't safe to express negative thoughts against races in public. I only feel free in the comfort of my own home! And when we were raising our kids, we were always careful not to degrade any race or religion to them or in front of them!

Well, there you have it. I was raised in the South, and was taught to be non-discriminating.. You and I are on the same page. But, I do feel that if we question what is going on in our beloved America, we have a right to voice it. It is not going so well. It is quite one sided for now. Great thread, and great food for thought!

 

[tommyjo]

With these high profile cases, such as with Paula Dean and now Donald Sterling just to name a few...do you think America is losing it's right for Freedom of Speech?
If one wants to be a racist, and verbalizes it, isn't that a personal choice and not a crime? I don't mean in cases such as in the work force as an employer to an employee... and I'm not talking about racist hate crimes... Don't we have the right to be who we really are? If you don't like other races outside of your own, can this be considered a crime? Can one control how he/she really feels about other races than their own?
I do believe that racism comes from the environment -where and when you were raised but I also think, that it is in our DNA (seriously) and is reinforced through one's culture and beliefs while being raised....
Your thoughts and behavior are you, and then you express them to the world....don't we have the right to express ourselves? Especially in conversations or wherever else we chose?
I really think we are losing our right to Freedom of Speech! What would America be like if we keep losing our rights?

Here we have two more wonderful examples of informed voters.

It would really help if you understood what Freedom of Speech means. You have the 1st amendment right to express any opinion you want and not be punished by the government.

Mr. Stern, Ms. Dean and whoever is next did not commit a crime. The govt took no action against them. They are not in jail. They have not been fined by the govt.

Society, their employers, sponsors, etc took them out to the woodshed.

Again, you have the right to say and idiotic, stupid thing you want (mamatutu does that almost hourly) and be free of govt reprisals. Your 1st amendment rights do not extend to society at large. If you are going to make stupid, idiotic comments, you deserve to be ridiculed.

 

[mudpuddle]

Here we have two more wonderful examples of informed voters.

It would really help if you understood what Freedom of Speech means. You have the 1st amendment right to express any opinion you want and not be punished by the government.

Mr. Stern, Ms. Dean and whoever is next did not commit a crime. The govt took no action against them. They are not in jail. They have not been fined by the govt.

Society, their employers, sponsors, etc took them out to the woodshed.

Again, you have the right to say and idiotic, stupid thing you want (mamatutu does that almost hourly) and be free of govt reprisals. Your 1st amendment rights do not extend to society at large. If you are going to make stupid, idiotic comments, you deserve to be ridiculed.

Yes, you are right. The government has not taken any action...so then, why are we (society) taking action and trying to destroy others who speak their minds :/
Is it a money thing? With Paula Dean, look what happened to her empire...and now Donald Sterling...I read an article today, how it listed all of his charities that he donates to....who's business is that? Is society going after the wealthy and trying to destroy them with any means possible? In these two cases, racism?
People are being lynched because of their opinions and are being financially ruined in the world's eye!

 

[glhs837]

Not at all, society has always been able to punish those who spoke opinions contrary to the popular view. Were you a big name in the tea trade back in the British Empire days and went publiv with your views that perhaps the wogs should have the right to be citizens of the Empire as publicly as possible, you could expect repercussions to happen. You might find yourself alone at the club, cut out of those fascinating conversations where the deals took place.

Are you saying that only the government should have the right to take action against those society disagrees with? That I as an individual, cannot decide not to do business with those I disagree with? Or as a group of individuals, we cannot decide who we want to associate with? Were I a charity, I certainly would not give back money he donated, and anyone who demands they do so is an idiot. Politicians, any contributions, those should be dontated, IMO. Or given back. I think if society thinks these sorts of punishments have gone too far, will just stop listening to the victim industry and it will self correct. Thats the point of a society as opposed to a government.

 

[mudpuddle]

Since, I brought up the race card, I am going to post this politically incorrect joke!

How the Jews got the 10 Commandments

God went to the Arabs and said, "I have Commandments for you that will
make your lives better."

And the Arabs asked, "What are Commandments?" And the Lord said, "They
are rules for living."

"Can you give us an example?"

"Thou shalt not kill."

"Not kill? We're not interested."

So he went to the Blacks and said, "I have Commandments." And the Blacks
wanted an example, and the Lord said, "Honor thy Father and Mother."

"Father? We don't know who our fathers are."

So He went to the Mexicans and said, "I have Commandments." And the
Mexicans wanted an example, and the Lord said, "Thou shalt not steal."

"Not steal? We're not interested."

He went to the French and said, "I have Commandments." The French wanted
an example and the Lord said, "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

"Not commit adultery? We're not interested.

He went to the Jews and said, "I have Commandments."

"Commandments?" They said, "How much are they?"

"They're free."

"We'll take 10."

 

[mudpuddle]

That I as an individual, cannot decide not to do business with those I disagree with? Or as a group of individuals, we cannot decide who we want to associate with?

No, I don't mean it like that...I mean purposely out to destroy the people who speak out with racist comments....at any cost....no matter the circumstances...
It seems to me that society is accepting this "lynching" mentality...it's ok to destroy someone over there racist remarks...and make them an example to the world...
I guess, you could compare these doings to the Witch hunts in Salem. Cry out "witch" and then burn them at the stake. We have not evolved that much through time.

 

[awpitt]

With these high profile cases, such as with Paula Dean and now Donald Sterling just to name a few...do you think America is losing it's right for Freedom of Speech?

I really think we are losing our right to Freedom of Speech! What would America be like if we keep losing our rights?

Based on the examples listed, we are not loosing our freedom of speech. Both examples do not involve the govt coming in and putting people in jail for the things they said. The 1st Ammendment does not protect us from having to be accountable for the things we say. Employers, sponsors, public opinion are all things that are not covered by the 1st Amendment. Remember, with rights come responsibilties.

 

[glhs837]

That I as an individual, cannot decide not to do business with those I disagree with? Or as a group of individuals, we cannot decide who we want to associate with?

No, I don't mean it like that...I mean purposely out to destroy the people who speak out with racist comments....at any cost....no matter the circumstances...
It seems to me that society is accepting this "lynching" mentality...it's ok to destroy someone over there racist remarks...and make them an example to the world...
I guess, you could compare these doings to the Witch hunts in Salem. Cry out "witch" and then burn them at the stake. We have not evolved that much through time.

Hmmmm, methinks the term destroy and lynch dont quite mean what you think they do.... taking 2.5 million from a man who is worth almost 2 billion isnt really destroying him.

Deen, best estimates I find say her earnings could drop from 14 million a year to only 7 million, my god, how will she make ends meet on only seven million a year, please someone destroy me like that, please.......

 

[mudpuddle]

Hmmmm, methinks the term destroy and lynch dont quite mean what you think they do.... taking 2.5 million from a man who is worth almost 2 billion isnt really destroying him.

Deen, best estimates I find say her earnings could drop from 14 million a year to only 7 million, my god, how will she make ends meet on only seven million a year, please someone destroy me like that, please.......

But in both cases, NO money should have been taken from them! That is the crime and not their remarks....and don't you think that their spirit is being destroyed in the process? How would you feel if it happened to you?

so, glhs837, you think it is fair or rather right to go after them because they have a lot of money?

 

[Larry Gude]

I wasn't really thinking of politics, or with Obama. I was thinking of expressing one's thought on a smaller scale...such as in a private conversation, at activities, or functions, etc....wherever there are people gathered....

Would you say "Hey, sleeping with Chinese people is peachy. Just don't be seen in public with them"?

How could your friends NOT repeat that?

 

[glhs837]

But in both cases, NO money should have been taken from them! That is the crime and not their remarks....and don't you think that their spirit is being destroyed in the process? How would you feel if it happened to you?

so, glhs837, you think it is fair or rather right to go after them because they have a lot of money?

If I sign a contract saying you can take money from me if I do certain things, or cancel a contract you have with me if I do certain things, and I do those things, how is that a crime if you take my money or cancel the contract? You didn't force me into that contract, did you? Guess what, my terms of employment say there are standards of conduct, and if I violate them, I can be fired, which would be taking my money away, and I'm not rich. If a teacher says racist things and it becomes public knowledge, would they suffer a negative financial consequence? Most likely. Society has decided that punishing people who speak such things is what should be done, or they wouldn't happen. you can find a society where talking about other people that way leads to no ill effect, but I'll bet in such places you really wouldnt be happy. These people did suffer a loss as a result of things they did. but I maintain it's not done because they are rich.

But feel free to experiment, if you are not rich yourself. go ahead and make some racist statements nd let them become public, see what happens to you.

 

[awpitt]

But in both cases, NO money should have been taken from them! That is the crime and not their remarks....and don't you think that their spirit is being destroyed in the process? How would you feel if it happened to you?

so, glhs837, you think it is fair or rather right to go after them because they have a lot of money?

When he bought the Clippers, he entered into a franchise agreement with the NBA that subjects him to the penalties should the commissioner and board of directors decide to impose the penalties. If he didn't want to be subject to thsoe rules, he should've never bought the team.

 

[Larry Gude]

When he bought the Clippers, he entered into a franchise agreement with the NBA that subjects him to the penalties should the commissioner and board of directors decide to impose the penalties. If he didn't want to be subject to thsoe rules, he should've never bought the team.

This is gonna keep on going until it starts making the guy sound reasonable.

He has a black coach, black players and a history of race based issues, good and bad, including being the NAACP's pal. How come some private comments said to his girlfriend, completely unrelated to his team and it's operations, becomes, suddenly, and like a lightening bolt, THE thing that gets him kicked out? He's been an owner for 33 years or so. He suddenly become a bigot? No one ever knew? Not ex commish David Stern? Not his coach(s)? None of the other owners with all these supposed interests and their rules, no one knew before now?

 

[glhs837]

He became an embarrassment to the organization, that has always been a Bad Thing. Was private, til it wasn't. And if I hear correctly, the conversation was about the games, correct, and who she brought? Isn't that related to the team?

 

[Larry Gude]

He became an embarrassment to the organization, that has always been a Bad Thing. Was private, til it wasn't. And if I hear correctly, the conversation was about the games, correct, and who she brought? Isn't that related to the team?

If you say so. I just assumed that talking to your girlfriend, in private, about who she has sex with and who she hangs out with in public wasn't covered in the team agreement. And, I was assuming those comments, at least to him, were confidential. I also was assuming that more than a few owners and league officials very much know the guy.

Your heard ONE owner or NBA figure call for patience to let the full truth work it's way out? Anyone say "Gosh, that's not the Don I know. I am shocked. We maybe ought not rush to judgment here..."

:shrug: