Frigging politicians...

[FromTexas]

http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=32685&dcn=todaysnews

Hey! We need money to cover the costs suffered by those hurricane victims. I can accept that. However, why does every proposal look more at harming people who work to get paid (federal employees) instead of looking at cuting bloated entitlement spending for those who don't work?! I always find it funny the politicians will quote how we have to tighten our belts and make tough choices... but they aren't suffering a penny of it! What about their own pork barrels? No! F'ing bastards! Stay away from my pay and go look in your own dirty backyards! If you want to cut payouts, cut bloated entitlements! I work for mine!

 

[Bruzilla]

I'm all for freezing government wages. The company that I work for frequently freezes hiring and salary actions as the budget and productivity require. If we have to endure these why shouldn't those who are hired to serve us endure them?

 

[FromTexas]

I'm all for freezing government wages. The company that I work for frequently freezes hiring and salary actions as the budget and productivity require. If we have to endure these why shouldn't those who are hired to serve us endure them?

I'd accept that if there entitlements took their pro-rated part of the hit (since its a payout, too, and they are the largest expenditure of government), pork barrel politics took its share, and we took our share. When a company freezes salaries, they typically have done a lot of other cuts and made efficiencies in other places, as well. They don't just run to cut the salaries right off.

FYI - The entitlement CPI increase is 4.1% this year. Fed employees were only going to get 2% under Bush which was up'ed to 3.1% to match military/emergency personnel by Congress.

Also, a government worker can typically make more in the private sector than they can in the public with the same skill set.

 

[SamSpade]

http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=32685&dcn=todaysnews

Hey! We need money to cover the costs suffered by those hurricane victims. I can accept that. However, why does every proposal look more at harming people who work to get paid (federal employees) instead of looking at cuting bloated entitlement spending for those who don't work?! I always find it funny the politicians will quote how we have to tighten our belts and make tough choices... but they aren't suffering a penny of it! What about their own pork barrels? No! F'ing bastards! Stay away from my pay and go look in your own dirty backyards! If you want to cut payouts, cut bloated entitlements! I work for mine!

Bastages. This is like a built-in gratuity - except that it ONLY hits federal workers, already underpaid. Why don't they just create an across the board "Katrina" tax?

 

[SamSpade]

I'm all for freezing government wages. The company that I work for frequently freezes hiring and salary actions as the budget and productivity require. If we have to endure these why shouldn't those who are hired to serve us endure them?

The fed does that too - plus, in the private sector, you can get a raise at any time. This is it, as far as raises go for most in the federal government - once a year we get a paltry cost of living adjustment - usually about 2-3 percent. It roughly translates - for me - about 25-30 extra bucks a paycheck.

And now they want THAT back.

 

[Bruzilla]

Okay... so if things are so bad as a govie, and so much better in the private sector, why don't you go to work in the private sector? As for pay discrepencies, I've found that to be a lot of wishful thinking. You can take two people, doing the exact same job, at two different companies, and one can be making twice as much as a government employee and the other half as much. There is no standard labor rate, and comparisons, even those based on averages, do not show that govies are sometimes making more than their counterparts in the private sector. And that's without mentioning all of the bennies that govies get and that we don't.

As for other efforts to streamline costs in the private sector, sometimes they do other things and sometimes they don't. Headcount is the rule of the day where I work, and jobs get whacked first.

 

[FromTexas]

Because the benefit outweighs the reduced pay. However, when you are going to start removing me from a COLA raise because you opt'ed to pay more for other things (i.e. entitlements, pork barrel politics, etc...), I will get disgruntled about it. Cut your fat before you cut my families income.

 

[Vince]

Because the benefit outweighs the reduced pay. However, when you are going to start removing me from a COLA raise because you opt'ed to pay more for other things (i.e. entitlements, pork barrel politics, etc...), I will get disgruntled about it. Cut your fat before you cut my families income.

It really doesn't matter because NSPS is coming next year and you won't even see COLA's anymore much less a decent pay increase.

 

[Larry Gude]

Vote: Gude

The bad news? 1/3 of government workers will be FIRED.

The good news? The other 2/3 will be given a 33% raise and an increased work load.

 

[Bruzilla]

When I was working at the Sheriff's Office, they had one woman processing warrants. In other similar-sized offices they would have three people doing the work that she did alone. She was telling me how she couldn't understand how she could do what it took three people to do elsewhere, and I told her it was because she only had herself to get the job done. And I told her that if they did add two people to her office that within a couple of months she would find it impossible to get all that work done by just one person.

And that's how government operates.

 

[Larry Gude]

VOTE: Gude

When I was working at the Sheriff's Office, they had one woman processing warrants. In other similar-sized offices they would have three people doing the work that she did alone. She was telling me how she couldn't understand how she could do what it took three people to do elsewhere, and I told her it was because she only had herself to get the job done. And I told her that if they did add two people to her office that within a couple of months she would find it impossible to get all that work done by just one person.

And that's how government operates.

If elected, the bad news: 2/3 of you are getting fired.

The good: The rest are getting a 2/3's raise!

 

[FromTexas]

The bad news? 1/3 of government workers will be FIRED.

The good news? The other 2/3 will be given a 33% raise and an increased work load.

I am all for that. There is a lot of fat in federal workers.

 

[SamSpade]

Because the benefit outweighs the reduced pay. However, when you are going to start removing me from a COLA raise because you opt'ed to pay more for other things (i.e. entitlements, pork barrel politics, etc...), I will get disgruntled about it. Cut your fat before you cut my families income.

Exactly. I *did* work for the private sector - and got laid off. With absolutely no warning whatsoever. My benefits sucked - I got almost no vacation or sick leave - and although it's not indicative of the private sector as a whole, the environment wasn't very friendly, either. I thought I was just imagining it until my first day back on the job with the federal government. Nope. They were just nicer, there.

But in the private sector - your boss can just walk up to you and give you a raise, if he feels like it. In the federal government - they can't do that, basically. You can get step increases, and grade increases - but those more or less stop after a while.

They don't *train* us as often as they did, in the private sector - unliike private industry, if you don't spend your whole budget, you may get a CUT next year. Our area typically gets about 300 bucks per person for training. (That being said, in my private sector job, I was told I'd have to PAY for all the training I got in the previous year, should my employment end with them - a sort of indentured servitude). In the private sector, your company might have a banner year (or, in my case, not, in which case they might *can* your butt). If it expands, you might have lots of opportunity for advancement. In the govt, unless you work for a large agency - or switch agencies - the positions usually don't open up unless someone *dies*, retires or leaves, because agencies don't often *expand*.

You want a promotion, you have to hunt around for one - no one's gonna say you're doing a great job, let's promote you to VP - and for most people I know, it often means switching jobs. That's because my area has had exactly 262 positions, and no one has left in the last ten years - you wanna promotion, you're gonna have to leave.

In private industry, you might make a killing if the company goes public. In the federal government - if you're LUCKY - someone will give you a nice little cash award of a few hundred bucks, which will get taxed right back down to about dinner and a movie. In private industry, you might get a Christmas bonus - in the federal government - at least, where I work - we can't even *call* it the Christmas party without offending someone. And there'll be no bonus. You won't even get a free turkey.

BUT - your sick leave accumulates *forever*. I used FIVE weeks last year for my operation, and I still have lots left. I get a pension based on years of service - in addition to my 401k. I get to *choose* which health plan I want.

 

[Bruzilla]

Exactly. I *did* work for the private sector - and got laid off. With absolutely no warning whatsoever. My benefits sucked - I got almost no vacation or sick leave - and although it's not indicative of the private sector as a whole, the environment wasn't very friendly, either. I thought I was just imagining it until my first day back on the job with the federal government. Nope. They were just nicer, there.

But in the private sector - your boss can just walk up to you and give you a raise, if he feels like it. In the federal government - they can't do that, basically. You can get step increases, and grade increases - but those more or less stop after a while.

They don't *train* us as often as they did, in the private sector - unliike private industry, if you don't spend your whole budget, you may get a CUT next year. Our area typically gets about 300 bucks per person for training. (That being said, in my private sector job, I was told I'd have to PAY for all the training I got in the previous year, should my employment end with them - a sort of indentured servitude). In the private sector, your company might have a banner year (or, in my case, not, in which case they might *can* your butt). If it expands, you might have lots of opportunity for advancement. In the govt, unless you work for a large agency - or switch agencies - the positions usually don't open up unless someone *dies*, retires or leaves, because agencies don't often *expand*.

You want a promotion, you have to hunt around for one - no one's gonna say you're doing a great job, let's promote you to VP - and for most people I know, it often means switching jobs. That's because my area has had exactly 262 positions, and no one has left in the last ten years - you wanna promotion, you're gonna have to leave.

In private industry, you might make a killing if the company goes public. In the federal government - if you're LUCKY - someone will give you a nice little cash award of a few hundred bucks, which will get taxed right back down to about dinner and a movie. In private industry, you might get a Christmas bonus - in the federal government - at least, where I work - we can't even *call* it the Christmas party without offending someone. And there'll be no bonus. You won't even get a free turkey.

BUT - your sick leave accumulates *forever*. I used FIVE weeks last year for my operation, and I still have lots left. I get a pension based on years of service - in addition to my 401k. I get to *choose* which health plan I want.

So I think you're making a great case for no one on either side of the fence having it very good.

By the way... I've been in the private sector since 1989, working all professional-level, exempt, jobs, and I've yet to get a Christmas bonus or even a turkey! As for raises, if you get more than a 2.5% raise you're doing good.

 

[SamSpade]

So I think you're making a great case for no one on either side of the fence having it very good.

By the way... I've been in the private sector since 1989, working all professional-level, exempt, jobs, and I've yet to get a Christmas bonus or even a turkey! As for raises, if you get more than a 2.5% raise you're doing good.

I went back to the government for two big reasons - one of them being, I had a few benefits still waiting that I wasn't even aware of - one of them being, a pension based on years of service. I thought all I had was my 401k. The other being the security of being able to retain my job while still moving about within the federal job system. With over fifteen years of experience, I'm pretty safe to move from here to there with relative ease. And I get a whole day of annual leave per paycheck.

I hear you about the raise - but - I DO know of people who have gained a lot over the last few years - my wife being one of them. There's a lot to be said for a system that rewards *performance* and not seniority. Among the reasons for lackluster federal job performance, is the lack of incentive. Even FIRINGS aren't always a good incentive - people need to know if they bust their hump, they might get more than a pitiful "cash-in-a-flash" award.

 

[Bruzilla]

The best boss I've ever has was when I worked at Tracor. Each group used to get about 2.5% of their salary budget as a "pot" for raises. For years every manager would just divide that 2.5% up amongst everybody so that no one would get upset about not getting a raise. So it didn't matter if you were the hard charger of a slacker... you got 2.5%. Then we got a new boss who said raises would be tied to performance, and things changed. I and others started getting 11.5% and 12% raises, while the slackers got nothing. There was all kinds of pissing and moaning, and lot of the slackers left, but that was the intent all along.

I've known many people who have gone from the government contracting world to the government employee one, but not many who have ever went the other way. They get used to the relative safety and security of a government job, but they often still want the financial incentives and freedoms of working a private sector job... they just don't want the associated risks. I'm working as a long-term consultant now, and making more money than I ever thought I would, but I'm also at the most risk, I get no benefits, etc. So everything is a trade off, and the only question really is how much risk and pain are you willing to endure? If you want the low-risk, low-pain model, work for the government. If you want high-risk and high-gain (but high pain too), you do what I'm doing.

 

[gumby]

Try working on Capitol Hill and seeing the waste firsthand. I'm in the House Office Buildings and at this moment, they are getting ready to open a staff gym(paid for with taxpayers money) that cost millions of dollars to build. The pisser is we have to pay $30.00/month to use it. Another waste is the CVC(Capitol Visitors Center). Millions and millions of dollars wasted. They are bragging about how it is going to be an "Attraction that rivals Disney" WTF. Anyone hear of Homeland Security???? The Capitol Police are a joke. 90 percent would know a bomb if it bit them on the azz. Let me take you thru some storerooms. I'll show you waste. UFB. Don't cut anyones raises, cut the waste. $80,000.00/suite for junk modular furniture(not including electrical upgrades, painting, carpet,drapes.......Your Congressional Staff will look great behind this junk(oh yeah, if they lose the election, the new member gets to pick out all new stuff on your dime). Every election year we move on average 200 members from suite to suite based on seniority. Thats another $80K gone per suite. You do the math.