FUSION ENERGY - IS IT THE ENERGY OF FUTURE? MOST SCIENTISTS SAY "YES".

[3CATSAILOR]

Recently scientists at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory's National Ignition Facility have made history by successfully producing a nuclear fusion reaction resulting in a net energy gain, a breakthrough hailed by US officials as a “landmark achievement” and a “milestone for the future of clean energy.”

Also, Fusion Energy is cleaner than Nuclear. The claim nuclear energy is clean is not true. For example, look at the life span of decay of the spend fuel rods.
How long do spent fuel rods last?

Spent nuclear fuel stays a radiation hazard for extended periods of time with Half-lifes as high as 24,000 years. Fusion energy has tritium. It's half life is about 12.3 years.

 

[Sneakers]

Every year or so, there is a "major breakthrough", but no one has been able to create a self-sustaining reaction. There's a group (I posted a link in another thread somewhere) that is claiming to be able to have a net positive reaction by 2024. But that's just a few watts. Full scale commercial production just isn't a real thing for a long time to come.

Much to my dismay. I'd love to see it happen.

 

[Gilligan]

Spent nuclear fuel stays a radiation hazard for extended periods of time with Half-lifes as high as 24,000 years. Fusion energy has tritium. It's half life is about 12.3 years.

Did you happen to notice how small the volume of the spent fuel is? Compared to..say...lithium batteries...or wind turbine blades. LOL. Clueless.

 

[LightRoasted]

For your consideration ...

Recently scientists at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory's National Ignition Facility have made history by successfully producing a nuclear fusion reaction resulting in a net energy gain, a breakthrough hailed by US officials as a “landmark achievement” and a “milestone for the future of clean energy.”

Also, Fusion Energy is cleaner than Nuclear. The claim nuclear energy is clean is not true. For example, look at the life span of decay of the spend fuel rods.
How long do spent fuel rods last?

Spent nuclear fuel stays a radiation hazard for extended periods of time with Half-lifes as high as 24,000 years. Fusion energy has tritium. It's half life is about 12.3 years.

They have a much shorter life as depleted uranium munitions. Well, at least after impact any residual radioactivity is spread out over a somewhat large area.

As for nuclear fusion. It is an impossibility. Energy is energy, and it cannot be created. If an atom of tritium has the energy capacity of say 100 joules, nothing can change that, or increase its capacity, other than to harness that 100 joules, when then after awhile, it to will be depleted of that energy. What they are in essence saying, is that a wood log on fire gives off more energy than the wood log contains, which, is an impossibility.

I believe these nuclear fusion experiments, and the money and resources that are being devoted to it, are being done under the cloak of developing something else.

 

[blacklabman]

For your consideration ...



They have a much shorter life as depleted uranium munitions. Well, at least after impact any residual radioactivity is spread out over a somewhat large area.

As for nuclear fusion. It is an impossibility. Energy is energy, and it cannot be created. If an atom of tritium has the energy capacity of say 100 joules, nothing can change that, or increase its capacity, other than to harness that 100 joules, when then after awhile, it to will be depleted of that energy. What they are in essence saying, is that a wood log on fire gives off more energy than the wood log contains, which, is an impossibility.

I believe these nuclear fusion experiments, and the money and resources that are being devoted to it, are being done under the cloak of developing something else.

I believe our Sun and the stars are examples of nuclear fusion.

 

[vraiblonde]

I typically ignore "Look at this great new thing of the future!" stories. Too often they cheerlead crap that never happens, and pooh pooh things that become real world-changers (remember when they said the internet had no practical application?).

As a general rule, if "most scientists" are touting it, it's bullshit to be ignored. Talking to you, covid vaccine.

 

[SamSpade]

Many years ago, I worked with a professor at University of Maryland who was developing fusion research - the latest I've heard is, he is now doing the same thing, in South Korea (his home).

This was 1981. They used the same joke THEN, that they do NOW - "commercial fusion is 20 years away" - the joke being - it's ALWAYS 20 years away. As in - never. That professor didn't ever think it was going to be commercially usable. EVER. He researched it for the science.

The two critical milestones are - achieving fusion, and achieving a net gain per the Lawson criterion. It's not enough that you accomplish fusion - THAT was done decades ago. But when taking in EVERY factor, it has to be a net gain.

WORSE - to be commercially viable - the net gain must be substantial. I've been watching the Livermore lab news for a while, because for ONCE, someone is trying something different - instead of creating giant accelerators - mostly, Tokamaks, which are donut shaped accelerators - they came upon a design which is basically a small contained area being smacked simultaneously by a lot of lasers.

But every time I re-read this, I keep reaching the same conclusion - this isn't scalable. They aren't looking into scaling it up. This is a scientific breakthrough, but with no clear practical application.

I don't think I will ever live to see this happen. It's not that it's not POSSIBLE - I just don't think scaling it up to the output of a bona fide nuclear plant is achievable yet.

 

[SamSpade]

I typically ignore "Look at this great new thing of the future!" stories. Too often they cheerlead crap that never happens, and pooh pooh things that become real world-changers (remember when they said the internet had no practical application?).

In the early 80's I worked as an engineer for the Postal Service, and they had a whole "e Section". Electronic this or that. One of the things they touted was - e-mail. I asked what the hell is that? Oh, sending mail from one computer to another.

And I classically quipped - "when is something like THAT EVER going to be useful?". At the time, there were FIVE PCs in our whole building - the very idea of email seemed ridiculous. It still seemed pointless even if EVERYONE had a computer. I mean, who was going to sit at a computer to read mail, when you could just walk outside?

Admittedly - nuclear fusion HAS been known for about 100 years. It's been worked on since before I was born (and that's saying a lot). There have been various claims of achieving it - but at a net loss - for years. This past month, the first time a net gain has happened.

Fusion has always been a REAL thing. What is in doubt, is, can it be scaled upward to be of any use? Who cares if after the dust settles, it can power a light bulb for so short a time, the naked eye cannot detect it?

 

[vraiblonde]

In the early 80's I worked as an engineer for the Postal Service, and they had a whole "e Section". Electronic this or that. One of the things they touted was - e-mail. I asked what the hell is that? Oh, sending mail from one computer to another.

And I classically quipped - "when is something like THAT EVER going to be useful?". At the time, there were FIVE PCs in our whole building - the very idea of email seemed ridiculous. It still seemed pointless even if EVERYONE had a computer. I mean, who was going to sit at a computer to read mail, when you could just walk outside?

See, and I find that fascinating because when I heard about this internet thingie I was like, "Hey, I wonder if you could.....?" So I called David, and Southern Maryland Online was born.



Bitcoin, OTOH, I rolled my eyes and ignored it as another pyramid scheme.

 

[Sneakers]

My dad worked on the TOKAMAK reactor in Princeton many years ago, like back in the 60's. They set numerous records and milestones, but to date have nothing useful.

At this point, it's a lifetime job opportunity. Getting one to actually work and be viable would mean loss of many careers.

 

[spr1975wshs]

Bitcoin, OTOH, I rolled my eyes and ignored it as another pyramid scheme.

Quite a few crypto exchanges in financial trouble since the FTX collapse.

 

[Tech]

I believe our Sun and the stars are examples of nuclear fusion.

The log may have a limited heat per log but still ignites the next log on the fire.

Still no Mr. Fusion for my Delorean.

 

[LightRoasted]

For your consideration ...

I believe our Sun and the stars are examples of nuclear fusion.

Yup. That is certainly true. However, everything in the cosmos, at some point in the timeline, will eventually enter into entropy, aka die, burn out, use all its fuel. And, since the sun, and other stars, have extremely large and powerful gravity forces, they can, and do, also pull in certain elements to keep burning longer, feeding the fire so to speak. But will eventually burn out. Just like the fusion reactions we see when we try our hand at it. These "stars" will burn out eventually having used all their energy. They are not forever lasting.

They are trying to use the exhaust from a gas engine rerouted to the intake to make a car run forever on a gallon of gas. Which will always fail. That's the best analogy I can think of at the moment.

The log may have a limited heat per log but still ignites the next log on the fire.

Still no Mr. Fusion for my Delorean.

That's the crux of the matter. Once a reaction takes place, (a burning log), it must be continually fed, (with another log), to keep the fire, (reaction), going, thereby negating what they are trying to do.

 

[glhs837]

They are trying to use the exhaust from a gas engine rerouted to the intake to make a car run forever on a gallon of gas. Which will always fail. That's the best analogy I can think of at the moment.



That's the crux of the matter. Once a reaction takes place, (a burning log), it must be continually fed, (with another log), to keep the fire, (reaction), going, thereby negating what they are trying to do.

But they do plan to keep feeding the fire with fuel. Now, breeding tritium might be akin to what you are saying, but seems reasonable, chemically speaking .

Fuelling the Fusion Reaction

Although different isotopes of light elements can be paired to achieve fusion, the deuterium-tritium (DT) reaction has been identified as the most efficient for fusion devices. ITER and future devices will use the hydrogen www-definition-5*250*hardisotopes deuterium and tritium to fuel the...

www.iter.org

 

[DaSDGuy]

Well, since it doesn't exist except in dreams we should cancel all wind and solar projects and require all automobiles to be fusion powered by 2030. Make it happen Brandon.

 

[3CATSAILOR]

Did you happen to notice how small the volume of the spent fuel is? Compared to..say...lithium batteries...or wind turbine blades. LOL. Clueless.

No, I didn't.

 

[blacklabman]

Speaking of tritium: Many years ago I was the project engineer to evaluate a yaw string for the F-14. The yaw string was to provide a yawed flight condition information to the pilot at night (well, it worked during the day as well). The yaw string was a hollow nylon cord with capsules of tritium installed. It was attached forward of the canopy. After one test flight the string detached over the Eastern Shore. The running story was "The chicken that ate Salisbury".

 

[glhs837]

Speaking of tritium: Many years ago I was the project engineer to evaluate a yaw string for the F-14. The yaw string was to provide a yawed flight condition information to the pilot at night (well, it worked during the day as well). The yaw string was a hollow nylon cord with capsules of tritium installed. It was attached forward of the canopy. After one test flight the string detached over the Eastern Shore. The running story was "The chicken that ate Salisbury".

We might not even notice it was gone for a while Salisbury, that is....

Fun tritium fact, you cant import compasses or watches with tritium in Australia.

 

[Gilligan]

We might not even notice it was gone for a while Salisbury, that is....

Fun tritium fact, you cant import compasses or watches with tritium in Australia.

Isn't tritium what Oliver (resident genius kid in the Bloom County strip) harvested from thousands of old wristwatches to build a thermonuclear "device" in the basement of his house?

 

[3CATSAILOR]

Isn't tritium what Oliver (resident genius kid in the Bloom County strip) harvested from thousands of old wristwatches to build a thermonuclear "device" in the basement of his house?

lol, I wouldn't doubt it. I hear a by product of Fusion energy is helium. I thought the World is low on helium. - So they say. Probably another excuse to raise prices. Call it a shortage and then raise prices.