Gavin Newsom wants California to be its own nation-state in the Trump era

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Curious if they think the United States would defend them, provide Coast Guard support or send aid for earthquakes and national disasters.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Gonna suck for all those folks heading off to Vegas - or anywhere else in the States.
And every road to the States cut off.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
but she still wants uncle sugar to steal someone else’s money and give it to her when she retires.
So you just flat admit that you don't know how Social Security is supposed to work.

Tell me, when you make a claim on your car insurance do you think you're stealing it from the insurance company? When you go to the doctor and use your health insurance to pay for it, do you think you're stealing from them?
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
So you just flat admit that you don't know how Social Security is supposed to work.

Tell me, when you make a claim on your car insurance do you think you're stealing it from the insurance company? When you go to the doctor and use your health insurance to pay for it, do you think you're stealing from them?
I know exactly how it works. They take money from people who work (tax) and give it to people who aren’t working (entitlement).
The way you can tell it’s an entitlement is that YOU feel so entitled to someone else’s money.
 

TCROW

Well-Known Member
So you just flat admit that you don't know how Social Security is supposed to work.

Tell me, when you make a claim on your car insurance do you think you're stealing it from the insurance company? When you go to the doctor and use your health insurance to pay for it, do you think you're stealing from them?
The latter is insurance and that is how it works. The former depends on the government committing theft on your behalf.

Not a good analogy at all.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
The latter is insurance and that is how it works. The former depends on the government committing theft on your behalf.

Not a good analogy at all.
It's a perfect analogy. Do you think that when your doctor bill gets paid, it's out of money you personally paid in premiums?

@Midnightrider ? Do YOU think that money you get from the insurance company if you wreck your car is money you personally paid in?

Do you think when you retire and start taking money out of your IRA, those are the exact same dollars you contributed?

Social Security and Medicare are indeed government managed insurance policies,a nd that is exactly what they were designed to be. You pay your premiums each month, your employer contributes, and when it's your turn to retire you get a monthly check, and you get your medical costs taken care of or at least partially paid. Paying your SS and Med contributions are not theft any more than the insurance company is a thief when you pay that premium.

OASDI. That is the official name of what we call "Social Security". Guess what that stands for?

Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance
 

TCROW

Well-Known Member
It's a perfect analogy.
No it’s not. And repeating the same thing you already have tried to get away with doesn’t make it a perfect analogy.

The fact that government calls it insurance (a) doesn’t make it actual insurance; and (b) doesn’t make your analogy a good one.

Is the government legally required to keep the theft program going in perpetuity? If the government shuts down socialist insecurity are they required to pay out to you? Hell, they can even means test people out of the program.

How in the flying hell is that insurance in any way, shape, or form?
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
No it’s not. And repeating the same thing you already have tried to get away with doesn’t make it a perfect analogy.

The fact that government calls it insurance (a) doesn’t make it actual insurance; and (b) doesn’t make your analogy a good one.

Is the government legally required to keep the theft program going in perpetuity? If the government shuts down socialist insecurity are they required to pay out to you? Hell, they can even means test people out of the program.

How in the flying hell is that insurance in any way, shape, or form?
If the insurance company goes under, they are not required to pay you back for your premiums. Hell, if your retirement fund company goes under, you are SOL and not getting your money back.

I agree with you - it was a huge pyramid scheme to begin with with no way of sustaining it and keeping it solvent. But in fact it was meant to be a retirement insurance plan and that is supposed to be how it works. It's not "welfare", which is what MR keeps insisting, and the recipient isn't "stealing" someone else's money.
 

TCROW

Well-Known Member
If the insurance company goes under, they are not required to pay you back for your premiums. Hell, if your retirement fund company goes under, you are SOL and not getting your money back.

I agree with you - it was a huge pyramid scheme to begin with with no way of sustaining it and keeping it solvent. But in fact it was meant to be a retirement insurance plan and that is supposed to be how it works. It's not "welfare", which is what MR keeps insisting, and the recipient isn't "stealing" someone else's money.
Yea, that’s how insurance works. If you don’t use it, that’s that. But having that feature in common with SS still doesn’t make it insurance.

It is absolutely welfare. The recipient isn’t stealing; that would be a crime. The government is the only entity allowed to steal with no repercussions. And the government is in fact stealing — need proof? Ask yourself this: is socialist insecurity voluntary? If not (and it’s not) then that equates to theft since you do not have a choice.

You can sugarcoat it anyway you like but it doesn’t make it not theft.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Yea, that’s how insurance works. If you don’t use it, that’s that. But having that feature in common with SS still doesn’t make it insurance.

It is absolutely welfare. The recipient isn’t stealing; that would be a crime. The government is the only entity allowed to steal with no repercussions. And the government is in fact stealing — need proof? Ask yourself this: is socialist insecurity voluntary? If not (and it’s not) then that equates to theft since you do not have a choice.

You can sugarcoat it anyway you like but it doesn’t make it not theft.
Then I'm guessing you think paying income tax or sales tax or any other tax is theft as well?
 

TCROW

Well-Known Member
Then I'm guessing you think paying income tax or sales tax or any other tax is theft as well?
Income tax, of course; it's not voluntary. Think of it this way: If instead of our marginal, progressive income tax system we have, the government absconded with 99% of your income, not marginal rate, but 99%. Would that be theft? If so, why are lesser amounts not theft? Just because they don't hurt "as bad" as 99% would?

Sales tax, no, as purchases are voluntary (and a huge part of why I support the FairTax as a way to fund government). Other taxes? ....

Let me give you the framework you need to evaluate this question for anything: IS IT VOLUNTARY?

End of framework.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Income tax, of course; it's not voluntary. Think of it this way: If instead of our marginal, progressive income tax system we have, the government absconded with 99% of your income, not marginal rate, but 99%. Would that be theft? If so, why are lesser amounts not theft? Just because they don't hurt "as bad" as 99% would?

Sales tax, no, as purchases are voluntary (and a huge part of why I support the FairTax as a way to fund government). Other taxes? ....

Let me give you the framework you need to evaluate this question for anything: IS IT VOLUNTARY?

End of framework.
Gotcha. I just wanted to understand where you were coming from so I could respond appropriately.

The problem is that We the People have agreed to income taxes and Social Security and all these programs and what have you. If we didn't agree, we wouldn't vote for the people who put them in place. We are a republic, but we operate as a democracy as well and majority rules an awful lot of the time. If we do go full Socialist in this country, it will be because that's what We the People want.

The problem with that ^^, of course, is that the pickin's are slim when it comes to who we can vote for because we are a two-party system and those two parties choose the candidates. If you vote "none of the above" it won't matter because one of them will win anyway. And getting a majority of humans to reject something they have hammered into them constantly isn't going to happen.

So we're kind of hosed all the way around. But the good news is that I've made good choices and put my plan in place, and I'm 55 with maybe 20 years or so left, so the kids can do what they want and they're the ones who'll have to live with it, not me.
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
It's a perfect analogy. Do you think that when your doctor bill gets paid, it's out of money you personally paid in premiums?

@Midnightrider ? Do YOU think that money you get from the insurance company if you wreck your car is money you personally paid in?

Do you think when you retire and start taking money out of your IRA, those are the exact same dollars you contributed?

Social Security and Medicare are indeed government managed insurance policies,a nd that is exactly what they were designed to be. You pay your premiums each month, your employer contributes, and when it's your turn to retire you get a monthly check, and you get your medical costs taken care of or at least partially paid. Paying your SS and Med contributions are not theft any more than the insurance company is a thief when you pay that premium.

OASDI. That is the official name of what we call "Social Security". Guess what that stands for?

Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance
Insurance is voluntary and you have a contract with your provider that you can change.

SS, like every other tax, is set by the fed and they determine who gets paid what from it. They also get to unilaterally decide how much they take from you AND to reduce your ‘benefits’ whenever they want.


Here is the other HUGE hole in your insurance analogy. The first group of people who got paid never paid in a cent. The fed just stole money from workers to bail out people who weren’t working.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Insurance is voluntary
It is? So all those people who were forced to buy health insurance or pay a penalty didn't really have to do that?

And you can drive a car in Maryland without purchasing insurance? Who knew?

I guess everyone can cancel their homeowners insurance now. Whew!

They also get to unilaterally decide how much they take from you AND to reduce your ‘benefits’ whenever they want.
Newsflash: so can the insurance company.
:loser:
 
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