Glass ceiling...

Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
washingtonpost.com

Women are never more complicated than in public life, but so it has always been. Kornblut's observations, though tied to recent events, fit the framework offered 15 years ago by Kathleen Hall Jamieson in her book "Beyond the Double Bind." Essentially, a double bind is a rhetorical construct that posits two, and only two, alternatives -- either of which serves to disempower.
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and...

Thus, women are either too tough or not tough enough. Or they can be assertive and thought immodest, or they can be silent and be dismissed. And so on.
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I have this idea that it's not so much that women are 'bound', either this or that but, that, in comparison, we do the same thing with men while at the same time expecting them to be ALL things. Bush is, to one side, stupid and must be, while their guy is smart, obvious to all. To the other side, one is a decent man with good intentions, the other, an over educated yet unwise socialist bent on destroying the union.

Obviously, they are both much more complex than that with strengths one side doesn't want to credit them with and weakness's their own side doesn't really want to discuss. Is this really any different than the constraining, limited standards for Hillary and Sarah? Do we actually hold men to any different a standard?


Ladies, thoughts?
 
B

BET

Guest
No I don’t believe that we hold men and women to different standards when competing for political positions or any job for that matter. It always seems that for political positions there are always a lot of “cheap shots”, unflattering cartoons, and criticisms directed toward a candidate. So why would it be different for women? I got the impression that the author of this article believes that Hillary and Sarah were slighted in some way for being treated in the same manner as any other candidate.
 
twinoaks207

twinoaks207

Having Fun!
From your reference:

What's clear is that women are held to a different standard than men and, when deemed unworthy, are attacked specifically as women according to stereotypes we pretend to shun.
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Sad to say, this is true. I've been involved, both directly and indirectly, in politics for the last 25 years. I watch, I research, I analyse. Women are treated differently in the political arena, especially if they have children. How many examples would you like? I don't have a lot of time so I'll just start with three.

Hilary Clinton -- criticisms seen in print are:
  • how she handles Bill's indiscretions -- she should "stand by her man", she should kick him out, she's only staying with him because of the "power trip" angle
  • her hair (no matter how it looks)
  • her clothes
Conaleeza Rice -- criticisms of her were:
  • she's too educated (?????)
  • her way of speaking (?????)
  • she's not "forceful enough" (what was she supposed to do, sucker punch the leaders of nations we're not happy with?)
Sarah Palin -- criticisms of her were:
  • her children
  • her hair
  • her clothes
  • her body
  • she'd pay more attention to her family than to the country
  • her way of speaking
Generally speaking, when you look back over how political figures are treated in the press and on television, etc., women tend to get criticized for things deemed "female" -- appearance, family, mannerisms, emotions* (see caveat below), juggling family and career. Generally speaking, we still practice the Madonna or Slut classifications. Women must be classified as one or the other.

Men also have appearances, families, mannerisms, and emotions but those are not target areas for criticism for men. Men seem to be given more of a "pass" for slips, whereas women are held to a higher standard of behavior. Would Hilary have been given a "pass" for having oral sex in the White House? (okay, pick yourselves up off the floor now at that thought & get back to reading!) You KNOW that wouldn't have happened -- yet Bill managed it with the help of voters! Look how often men in the public eye are unfaithful and everyone around turns a blind eye until it can't be avoided.

*caveat for emotions: Both can tear up -- women are called on using the tears to manipulate and men are called "weak". Both of these are just as bad!

Okay, Larry -- go for it! I'm looking forward to this discussion but I'll have to join back in later as I need to go to work! You know, "I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan..." :lmao:
 
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