GM Employee Discount for cosumers

N

newtosomd

Guest
Has anyone looked into the new GM promotions. Supposedly you get the same price that employees pay for the cars. I saw an advertisement for a Yukon last night, it was listed at 31,000. That's a bit lower than normal.
 
S

Schizo

Guest
The Tahoes and Yukons are about $10K after all incentives... then you can also take out for GM Card and Active Duty. Makes the deal even sweeter.
 
N

newtosomd

Guest
Schizo said:
The Tahoes and Yukons are about $10K after all incentives... then you can also take out for GM Card and Active Duty. Makes the deal even sweeter.

10K less than normal? Surely not just 10K!
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
A coworker of mine just went to a GM dealer and found that this whole employee pricing thing is a scam. The only vehicle that is supposed to be exempt from the deal is the Corvette, but he was told that the Escalade, high-end Yukons, and Hummers were exempt also.

Also, if you get the employee pricing deal, all other discounts or programs are null and void. So you're better off working a retail deal with discounts and rebates.

By the way, I spent the better part of last year working at a dealership, and it is standard practice to say "yes" to anything the customer wants when they call. If you call and say you want employee pricing, a 1/2 price special, and $10,000 in rebates, they'll say "no problem" just to get you in the door. Once you're there you get the hard truth.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
N

newtosomd

Guest
Bruzilla said:
A coworker of mine just went to a GM dealer and found that this whole employee pricing thing is a scam. The only vehicle that is supposed to be exempt from the deal is the Corvette, but he was told that the Escalade, high-end Yukons, and Hummers were exempt also.

Also, if you get the employee pricing deal, all other discounts or programs are null and void. So you're better off working a retail deal with discounts and rebates.

By the way, I spent the better part of last year working at a dealership, and it is standard practice to say "yes" to anything the customer wants when they call. If you call and say you want employee pricing, a 1/2 price special, and $10,000 in rebates, they'll say "no problem" just to get you in the door. Once you're there you get the hard truth.

TYVM... I may buy slightly used for the right price. Otherwise I was considering the dealership, for the financing purposes.
 

Ponytail

New Member
I think that whole "employee pricing" thing is a farce. I priced them on line and the discounts didn't seem like all that much.

A friend of mine got a new Corvette through his Aunt a few years back, and he stole it for 10% over cost which is what the GM employee discount was, at least that's what it used to be....and that ain't "dealer cost" either. Brand new Vette for around $30k.

The American Automakers are in big trouble and are trying anything they can to bring the customers in. I just saw a Ford commercial last night, seems that they have a new scam going too.

Being Union Made used to mean something good. Now it just means that you paid double for something built by americans with shitty attitudes.
 

ylexot

Super Genius
Ponytail said:
Being Union Made used to mean something good. Now it just means that you paid double for something built by americans with shitty attitudes.
:killingme I LOVE IT!
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
When I worked for Ford last year there were three types of sales: Retail, X-Plan, and Z-Plan, with X-Plan being negotiated discounts between Ford and major business partners and suppliers, and Z-Plan was for employees and their immediate family. A typical price stucture would be a retail price of say $25,000 would mean an average X-Plan price of about $22,500 and a Z-Plan price of about $21,500, minus the rebates. Plus with the X or Z plans you didn't have to pay a $499 dealer fee.

That seems like a good deal, but I saw lots of people get prices that were well below Z-plan if they knew what to look for (things like stock numbers, time of the month, etc.)
 

cholo

¡Tengo una tarjeta verde!
Bruzilla said:
That seems like a good deal, but I saw lots of people get prices that were well below Z-plan if they knew what to look for (things like stock numbers, time of the month, etc.)
I know about the end of the month quota push, and have used that in the past to get good deals (including keeping the salespeople at the dealer until 11pm on the last Saturday of the month). But what is the stock number deal?
 
C

czygvtwkr

Guest
I just got something in the mail today from Toyota offering me employee prices this weekend only.

Even if a dealer sells a car for invoice they still make money.
 

Lenny

Lovin' being Texican
Bruzilla said:
When I worked for Ford last year there were three types of sales: Retail, X-Plan, and Z-Plan, with X-Plan being negotiated discounts between Ford and major business partners and suppliers, and Z-Plan was for employees and their immediate family. A typical price stucture would be a retail price of say $25,000 would mean an average X-Plan price of about $22,500 and a Z-Plan price of about $21,500, minus the rebates. Plus with the X or Z plans you didn't have to pay a $499 dealer fee.

That seems like a good deal, but I saw lots of people get prices that were well below Z-plan if they knew what to look for (things like stock numbers, time of the month, etc.)

Check out the Confessions of a car salesman series at http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html?tid=edmunds.a.landing.feature..3. to find out how to really save money on purchase of a car.
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
cholo said:
I know about the end of the month quota push, and have used that in the past to get good deals (including keeping the salespeople at the dealer until 11pm on the last Saturday of the month). But what is the stock number deal?

Most dealerships assign cars with stock numbers as they come on the lot, and put the numbers where they can easily be seen - such as on the windshield. The numbers are assigned sequentially, so the lower the number the older the unit is. Dealerships are very concerned with "aged" units, which are cars that have been on the lot for a period longer than 30 days in most cases. The dealers are taking loans out on these cars to get them on the lot, and the more they have to pay in interest the less profit they make from them. Ideally, you want to get a new car on and off the lot in less than 30 days or you start cutting into your profits.

The lower the stock number is, the longer the car's been on the lot, which translates into more incentive for the dealer to get it sold.
 
N

newtosomd

Guest
Bruzilla said:
Most dealerships assign cars with stock numbers as they come on the lot, and put the numbers where they can easily be seen - such as on the windshield. The numbers are assigned sequentially, so the lower the number the older the unit is. Dealerships are very concerned with "aged" units, which are cars that have been on the lot for a period longer than 30 days in most cases. The dealers are taking loans out on these cars to get them on the lot, and the more they have to pay in interest the less profit they make from them. Ideally, you want to get a new car on and off the lot in less than 30 days or you start cutting into your profits.

The lower the stock number is, the longer the car's been on the lot, which translates into more incentive for the dealer to get it sold.

That is some good information Bruzilla. Thanks.
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
Part 1 of How To Buy A Car

Lenny said:
Check out the Confessions of a car salesman series at http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html?tid=edmunds.a.landing.feature..3. to find out how to really save money on purchase of a car.

OH MY GOD! I can't believe how FOS that guy is! I would bet that 90% of that article is made up.

A good dealership does not "bug" cubes, or kidnap customers on test drives, or pull most of the crap this guy mentions. I think most of his story is based on friend-of-friend anecdotal stories he's heard. Most people who come into dealerships today have done their research and know the price of the car and the value of their trade. If you want to save money on a car, here's what you do:

1. Buy on the last day of the month. Sales commission cut-off dates are on the 15th and last day of the month, but only salespeople are really concerned with the 15th. The dealership can base a lot of it's advertising on the month-end sales figures, so the last day of the month is the last chance they have of selling more cars than the other dealerships. Don't browse on the last day because the price quote you get on the 30th won't be valid on the 1st.

2. Understand the price! The price of a new car is based on MSRP plus options. Used cars are based on however much the dealership thinks they can get as a maximum, and usually how much the dealership paid for the car plus $1,000 as a minimum. MSRPs vary from month to month during a year, and the MSRP for say a 2005 Mustang made in January will be lower than one made in March. The first price that a salesman will get from the sales manager will usually be MSRP+options+fees, and minus rebates and discounts. I can't imagine a sales manager cooking up all kinds of imaginary extra costs as people are now too knowledgeable and there's too much competition to kill a deal at the start.

3. Understand the Cost! The cost of a new car is based on the invoice price minus dealer incentives and a "holdback", which is the dealership's base profit. When you read about a deal where a car is sold "Below Invoice", they are pricing the car so that AFTER rebates and discounts the price comes in below invoice. For example, a Pontiac Grand Am has an MSRP of $25,000 and $4,000 in rebates, and an invoice price of $20,000. The dealership provides a price discount to $23,999, which after rebates results in a price of $19,999, or $1 under the invoice cost. This sounds like a good deal for the customer but it isn't. In this case the dealership is offering you a car for below invoice price, and they are getting the $23,999 price, plus the rebate money from Pontiac, plus the dealer holdback. The dealership might also be getting additional money from Pontiac as an incentive to sell more of a particular car, but you won't know that.

A better deal would be to start your price at the invoice price, minus the rebate. In this case you would be paying $16,000 (price minus rebates) and the dealership gets the invoice price + incentives + holdback. This is not an ideal situation but at least the dealership is getting a car off the lot. Do not waste your time trying to get the holdback or incentive money taken off the price as 99.9% of dealers will not do that. It is their minimum profit that they can make and they won't go below that.

4. Know how trades work. There are a lot of websites like Kelley Blue Book or Edmunds where you can value your trade. The dealership that I worked at used KBB. The problem is that people always over-value their cars because they are used to them. Instead, look at your car as if you were looking to buy it again. Would you buy that car for an "excellent" price with those "little" scratches in the paint, or would you demand that those get fixed? Would you buy a car with missing knobs or switches, or that had that level of tread on the tires? A dealership isn't taking your car in trade because they like it, they're taking it because they're going to get rid of it as soon as possible, and defects that seem minor to the person trading it in would usually be major if they were buying the car. So, realize this: there are no excellent condition cars getting traded in, so don't use excellent condition when valuing your car! Use the Good condition when getting a value because if you wouldn't pay top dollar for your car as it is right now, don't expect anyone else to either.

Speaking of trades, you need to understand what dealers are saying when they advertise "we'll pay off your trade no matter how much you owe!" The dealership must payoff every trade they take in before they can transfer the title and resell the car, so that is an honest statement. What they aren't telling you is that you're going to be financing the difference between the trade in value and the payoff value (how much you still owe.) For example, if you trade in a car that the dealership values at $10,000, and you still owe $15,000 on it, you're going to have $5,000 added to the amount that you'll be financing, i.e., the final price of the new car after trade-in value, plus fees, plus the amount still owed on the trade in. This is a big area of misunderstanding, especially for customers who are "upside down", aka those who owe more for their trade than it's worth. Let's say that after negotiating and rebates/discounts, they get a car with an MSRP of $30,000 for only $20,000. Then they are trading in a car that's appraised at $10,000, but they owe $15,000 on. The price of the car goes down to $10,000, but the amount financed will be $25,000 due to the $10,000 car price plus the payoff amount.

This is also why it's so important to buy a car that you plan on keeping for a while, at least 70% of the finance period. People like to do what their parents did, and most of our parents could only finance cars for 24 months, which allowed them to get a new car every one or two years and not be "upside down." Then the finance rates went to 36 months, and people who were trading their cars in at two years found that the trade-in wasn't worth as much because they hadn't payed as high a percentage of the car off as before. Now you have people financing for five and six years who think that they can still get a new car every one or two years, and they are way upside down, to a point where the price of the new car is within their payment range, but when you factor in the payoff on the trade it takes them way above their payment range.
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
Part 2 of How To Buy A Car

5. Test drives work for both parties. People are pretty much split between people who want to take a test drive and those who don't. I think not taking a test drive is foolish. If you're buying a car based on looks alone there's a good chance you'll buy the wrong car and find out it's the wrong one too late. Dealers like test drives because they feel that once a person gets in a car they develop a "sense of ownership". I think this is a myth as I've had plenty of customers who would test drive multiple vehicles and not buy anything.

A good car dealer should take you out to the car and do a "walk around." They should point out all the options and features, and give you a great understanding of what you'll be getting for the money. If they won't do that it's because their car is crap or they don't know much about it. Then when you take your test drive check everything out and have the sales person point out all of the handling and driveability features.

If you try to buy a car buy walking around the lot, finding something that looks good, and then working numbers (as many people do) then it's your fault for getting screwed.

6. Know your credit! I saw a lot of people who thought their credit was bad when it really wasn't, and willfully paid a higher finance rate than they should have. A credit score of under 400 won't get you financed in most places, and a score of 700+ is a godsend to most dealerships. A 600 score isn't great, but isn't a basketcase either. If you've got a high 500s or 600s score, you should expect a better rate than someone in the 400s. You won't get a zero or one percent deal, but you shouldn't be getting a 20 percent deal either.

You also need to understand basic financing. As a rule of thumb, with average credit, you're going to be paying about $20 for every $1,000 financed with a 5-year note. So if you finance $10,000, you're going to be paying $200 a month. If you finance $30,000, you're going to be paying $600. So if you're looking at getting a $50,000 truck, financed with a $30,000 note after trade in and payoff, and only paying $300 a month, IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN no matter how wonderful your negotiating skills are. Even at zero percent interest you would still be looking at $500 a month.

7. Don't play games! I guarantee you that the salesperson and sales manager know a heck of a lot more about playing the sales game than you do. I can't tell you how many would-be know it alls would come into the dealership with their bravados hanging out, folks who were going to stick it to the salesman, come in the door and leave after getting their "head ripped off" (the term used by sales people for butt-raping a customer financily). They would come in yelling about how they weren't going to pay more than $300 a month and leave with a $700 payment and feeling like they really put one over on those "suckers".

8. Know your car. This should actually be number 1, but I'm too lazy to change the numbering. People who pay too much are usually people who have not done any real thinking about what it is they're really looking for. An Eddie Bauer Expedition looks sweet and has all kinds of power doo-dads that'll make most men weap and that a salesman will gladly hype up, but are they want you need, and in turn worth paying more for? Determine what you need, not what you want, and make sure that the car you're looking at meets your needs. This is another reason why a dealer walk-around and test drive are so important. A car can have a killer profile and paint scheme, but if there's not enough room for your kids...

9. Be ready to leave if things don't go your way. People always spend more on their cars when they have second thoughts. If you know what you want, and how much you want to pay, and don't get it - leave. As long as your expectations aren't unrealistic, you'll find your deal elsewhere or the dealership will cave in and call you back.

10. Don't be afraid to ask what you've got coming to you. A dealership is under no obligation to tell you anything but the MSRP and option prices and finance rates. Most will tell you about rebates, but some won't unless you ask. Be sure to ask your dealer about the latest rebates, special dealer incentives that are available to the public, and about if there are any aged units they want to get rid of. Also, check with your employer and see if the company you work for has any discount programs with the car makers.

Also remember that YOU are under no obligation to provide discount information to the dealer! If you do have a discount coming, and the salesperson doesn't ask you about it up front, don't tell them. A dealer will usually value your trade-in higher if they see a straight retail deal in the works. If they give you a higher-than-book trade-in value, and then you say "Oh by the way, I'm an X-plan (Ford) customer though my employer", you just got one over on the dealership. The sales manager will be pissed at the salesman for not finding out that you were a discount cutomer sooner, but that's their problem. This also applies to discounts for being a Sam's Club, COSTCO, BJ's Wholesale, etc. buyer as well. If they come out up front and ask you if you're a discount customer you need to tell them, but if they don't, wait until after the trade is appraised to tell them.

11. Shop around for the extras. Dealers make a lot of money on stuff like stereo upgrades, rust proofing, extended service agreements, and other high-profit additions, but many of these are available for a lower cost at other companies. Dealer finance people will insinutate that you have to get this stuff at the time of sale or you lose your chance, but the truth is you can get things like extended service plans later on and at the same price.

Make sure that you do get Gap insurance, just check with your insurance agent and see if they offer Gap at a lower price than the dealer. Gap insurance pays the difference between what you car is worth and how much you owe on it if it's totaled due to being stolen, crashed, etc. So if you buy a new car for $24,000 and drive if off the lot, everybody knows you just lost about $8,000 in value due to depreciation, and if you get t-boned immediately after leaving the lot, your insurance company will only pay you for what the car is worth, or $16,000, even though you still owe $24,000. Gap insurance will pay the $8,000 difference so you don't have to pay anything out of pocket. I saw Gap insurance save a lot of people's bacon, and it's very well worth the minimal cost.

So, to summarize, the first thing you need to do is determine what vehicle will best meet your needs, the lowest cost of the vehicle optioned the way you want (the invoice cost), and any discounts and rebates that you have coming. Then do an honest appraisal of your trade, and compare that value to the amount you still owe. If you owe more than a thousand or so than the car is worth, you're better off not buying a new car for another year or so. If your car is paid off, you're in car buying heaven.

Next, calculate what the best price you're likely to pay for the car is (invoice minus rebates, discounts, etc.), then subtract your trade-in's value, and add in your payoff amount. That should give you a real good estimate of how much you'll be financing. Then multiply the number of thousands by $20 to get a monthly payment. Here's a sample:

2005 XLT F-150 Super Crew 2WD: MSRP with options $29,000, price after rebate and discounts is $22,000, or invoice after rebates is $20,000.

Trade in is a 2002 Nissan Frontier valued at $12,000, but $16,000 is still owed.

The amount financed will be $26,000 or $24,000 depending on which price you used. Multiply the thousands by $20 and you get a monthly payment of $520 or $480 a month for a five-year note and average credit.

If you were looking to get a $300 payment, you'll only get it by putting enough money down to finance only $15,000, in this case about $10,000. If you can't put that much down, or go above $300 a month, you ain't going to get that truck and you need to find a lower priced vehicle or keep what you've got and keep paying it off.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ponytail

New Member
*whew* All this time I thought that the Harley dealership had me bent over. Nope. All I got was my "head ripped off". Cool! :cool: I can deal with that!

:lol:


Good info Bruz! :patriot:
 

alex

Member
Bruz - great info. One other thing. When I bought a new car 6 mos ago I paid for the Consumer Reports Pricing Report. They tell you the MSRP, plus all rebates, plus what the dealer REALLY pays for the vehicle. They then advise you to add 6-8% to the dealer cost (dealers deserve to make money as they are a business) and that should be what you pay for your care. Well that is exactly what I paid. They were right on the money.

I had also gone shopping/test driving about 3 months before, knowing my car would not last much longer. So that when it came time to get a new car I knew exactly what I wanted, what features I had to have and what I would like to have and how much car I could afford. Then I went to www.cars.com and bought my car. I did everything over the internet and phone so all I had to do was drive to the dealer, sign the paperwork and drive the car away. It was THE BEST car buying experience I have every had.
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
alex said:
Bruz - great info. One other thing. When I bought a new car 6 mos ago I paid for the Consumer Reports Pricing Report. They tell you the MSRP, plus all rebates, plus what the dealer REALLY pays for the vehicle. They then advise you to add 6-8% to the dealer cost (dealers deserve to make money as they are a business) and that should be what you pay for your care. Well that is exactly what I paid. They were right on the money.

Don't get me wrong. I think that dealers do deserve to make money, the question is how much, and how much of yours will they get. It sucks being a salesman. We had a very high-flow dealership that would get 75 or so walk-"ups" a day, but you usually have 20-30 salespeople, so you might get two customers during a 12-hour shift. Only about four in ten customers were serious buyers, and usually half that number had the credit to actually buy something. So you spend a lot of time selling to people who won't/can't buy, and miss the ones who can. It usually takes three to four hours from the time an Up walks in the door until they drive away, and on most new car sales that equates to a flat $125 "mini deal" because the profit level is so low. $125 for three hours work doesn't sound bad, but it's actually more like $125 for about 36-40 hours of work sometimes, and that sucks.

The dealer holdback ensures that even if they sell at invoice, they're going to make money off the deal. Also, the dealership, sales managers, and salespeople get "spins", which are additional monies paid out to see certain cars. So even at invoice the dealership is making money.

Before you start worrying about the well being of a dealership, keep two things in mind: First, warrantied and non-warrantied service work done in their service department brings in more money than the cars at a lot of dealerships. And second, that for every customer who comes in and says "I'll pay invoice and I want the rebates. Let me know if you can give me that price so we don't waste each others' time" there are some who come in just blindly sign on the dotted line and get their head ripped off.
 
Top