Going the way of Solyndra

Kyle

Beloved Misanthrope
PREMO Member
Electric buses are sitting unused in cities across the US


Cities coast-to-coast grappling with broken-down e-buses that cannot be fixed


Between the federal government, states and municipalities, untold billions in taxpayer dollars have been spent adding electric buses to transit fleets across the U.S. in an effort to reduce carbon emissions.


However, cities from coast-to-coast are grappling with broken-down e-buses that cannot be fixed, are too expensive to fix, or they have scrapped their electric fleets altogether.

Officials in Asheville, North Carolina, recently expressed frustration that three of the five e-buses the city purchased for millions in 2018 are now sitting idle due to a combination of software issues, mechanical problems and an inability to obtain replacement parts.

Earlier this month, The Denver Gazette reported two of the four e-buses Colorado Springs' Mountain Metropolitan Transit acquired in 2021 are not running. They cost $1.2 million a piece, mostly paid for by government grants.

Part of the problem is the manufacturer of the buses, Proterra, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in August. The company, founded in 2004, rose to become the largest e-bus company in the U.S., representing nearly 40% of the market prior to going belly-up.




 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
why is the process of engineering a E-Bus solution so difficult

these companies are being funded by the Gov build something that works, stop cheapening out on the design
 

Kyle

Beloved Misanthrope
PREMO Member
why is the process of engineering a E-Bus solution so difficult

these companies are being funded by the Gov build something that works, stop cheapening out on the design
I'd be guessing, but they probably overestimated the lifespan of the motors.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
why is the process of engineering a E-Bus solution so difficult

these companies are being funded by the Gov build something that works, stop cheapening out on the design
Doesn't LOOK like it was technological. I've seen electric buses for a long time.


It looks more like:

- Contracts with cities and governments means, sorry suckers, you have to sell ito to us CHEAPER

coupled with

- Inflation.

Deals with transit agencies, which rely on federal and state funding, are slow to finalize and budgets are tight, which can mean reducing the price of a product to win a bid. That doesn’t help margins.

On top of that pressure, Proterra doesn’t recognize revenue until it delivers those buses. Inflation rose in the meantime, further cutting into its margins. Contracts are typically signed 12 to 18 months prior to bus manufacturing, Proterra said in a day one declaration filing with the U.S. Bankruptcy Code in the District of Delaware. “Contracts signed in 2021 proved to be priced below where the manufacturing costs were ultimately realized in 2022,” the company noted.

Making the situation even worse? Supply chain constraints, which led to delays significant enough that Proterra ended up paying penalties to contract supplier TPI Composites. Proterra said in the filing it was able to renegotiate the TPI contract to lessen the penalties to some degree, but it still faced liabilities from an inability to accept the agreed-upon bus body minimums. Proterra and TPI also faced penalties for delivering buses late to its customers.

Atop all of these challenges, one of the bigger issues — and one that existed long before the economic conditions changed — are the special needs of transit agency customers. Every transit agency has different requirements for its buses, meaning every bus contract can have vastly different manufacturing requirements than the one before.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
I'd be guessing, but they probably overestimated the lifespan of the motors.

Motors should be easy. Its pack design, support structure design, logisitcs support, all these things. I'll bet all these companies just hired all that stuff out with no overarching system engineering. Buy a pack from vendor A. Get vendor B to reroute the existing bus coolant system around the pack, with a basic BMS with little to no smarts. Spares? Meh, who cares about support, we got the big money up front.

Same thing we saw with the subsidized solar boom. Fly by nights rush in with slick powerpoints and scoop up contracts from politicians with no system understanding, sell poor products with no back end support, then run for the hills before crap starts breaking down.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
I have no doubt - but Proterra didn't go BANKRUPT because of broken buses.

Yeah I went back and read the article ....

I'm not sure where the problem ultimately lies, lots of moving parts ....

I think one key point, the VC ran out no more money train ... all the factors listed mean thinning margins


Atop all of these challenges, one of the bigger issues — and one that existed long before the economic conditions changed — are the special needs of transit agency customers. Every transit agency has different requirements for its buses, meaning every bus contract can have vastly different manufacturing requirements than the one before.

Seems to me there needs to be some standardization here ... Transit Agencies could acquire a less expensive product if they got together and detailed ONE set of requirements the could ALL USE ...

WTF so different for a freaking Bus ...


And then there are the special problems associated with companies that try to make a profit through sales to cities, and specifically transit agencies.

Deals with transit agencies, which rely on federal and state funding, are slow to finalize and budgets are tight, which can mean reducing the price of a product to win a bid. That doesn’t help margins.

I'm not sure how one affects the other ...

Budgets are slow to be approved ? so we reduce our bid how does a lower price speed up the process ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: BOP

phreddyp

Well-Known Member
I have no doubt - but Proterra didn't go BANKRUPT because of broken buses.
You are correct they went Bankrupt by trying to profit on a "not ready for prime time" product. Fortunately for them there were enough suckers out there for them to continue their charade for a while. It appears that the honeymoon is over for now, they have sold what assets they had left for a pittance, good riddance!
 

Kyle

Beloved Misanthrope
PREMO Member
The EV market will recover just as soon as Fairy Dust and Unicorn Fart Technology comes online. 🤞
 

BOP

Well-Known Member
Electric buses are sitting unused in cities across the US


Cities coast-to-coast grappling with broken-down e-buses that cannot be fixed


Between the federal government, states and municipalities, untold billions in taxpayer dollars have been spent adding electric buses to transit fleets across the U.S. in an effort to reduce carbon emissions.


However, cities from coast-to-coast are grappling with broken-down e-buses that cannot be fixed, are too expensive to fix, or they have scrapped their electric fleets altogether.

Officials in Asheville, North Carolina, recently expressed frustration that three of the five e-buses the city purchased for millions in 2018 are now sitting idle due to a combination of software issues, mechanical problems and an inability to obtain replacement parts.

Earlier this month, The Denver Gazette reported two of the four e-buses Colorado Springs' Mountain Metropolitan Transit acquired in 2021 are not running. They cost $1.2 million a piece, mostly paid for by government grants.

Part of the problem is the manufacturer of the buses, Proterra, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in August. The company, founded in 2004, rose to become the largest e-bus company in the U.S., representing nearly 40% of the market prior to going belly-up.




shocked face.jpg
 
Top