Green New Deal ruining Christmas.

[PeoplesElbow]

These people don't want to work, they want to get paid to think. Unfortunately they don't want to do any actual thinking, either.

If it's not Starbucks or the apple store they dont want anything to do with it.

I do know a few 30ish year olds that are cleaning up because they have their parents and grandparents personalities.

 

[HemiHauler]

Yes they do when they are offered, but generally the unions fund the Democrats , don't believe me listen in to a union meeting the officers fund the Democrats despite what the members want Local 26 Washington IBEW is a prime example .

I know many members of Local 602 Steamfitters and you're not wrong. I'm shocked that labor unions want to buy political influence.

 

[ontheriver]

I'm shocked that labor unions want to buy political influence.

Of course you are.

 

[GURPS]

This article is obviously complete fiction, look here:

Ships bound for backlogged California ports forced even further out to sea

Backlogged container ships stranded off of the coast of southern California waiting for their chance to enter port have been moving farther out to sea due to safety concerns brought on by poor winter weather conditions, satellite images show.

Only about 30 ships were within view of the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach, the two largest ports in the country, The Wall Street Journal reported on Friday, while over 60 others were forced farther out to sea amid high winds and rough seas.

Some are hundreds or even thousands of miles away, including vessels incoming from Asia that have reduced their speed in anticipation of delays, The Journal said. The ships are complying with a voluntary system put in place by shipping officials last month ahead of inclement weather conditions in the winter that pose a safety hazard, the paper said.

 

[Hijinx]

Is there anything on these ships that cannot be produced right here in America?

 

[Kyle]

Is there anything on these ships that cannot be produced right here in America?

Dog meat.

 

[PrchJrkr]

Dog meat.

That's ruff!

 

[OccamsRazor]

Is there anything on these ships that cannot be produced right here in America?

As pointed out SEVERAL times in this post and in past posts. The problem is COST! No matter how many times someone screams "Make it in the USA" it will not change the fact that the costs are what drives EVERYONE to purchase from overseas manufacturers.

 

[Hijinx]

As pointed out SEVERAL times in this post and in past posts. The problem is COST! No matter how many times someone screams "Make it in the USA" it will not change the fact that the costs are what drives EVERYONE to purchase from overseas manufacturers.

The cost of paying for China's aggressive action on Taiwan should also be figured in.
Americans are financing that.

 

[OccamsRazor]

The cost of paying for China's aggressive action on Taiwan should also be figured in.
Americans are financing that.

Nobody cares about that when they want their 55" TV for $300. Just sayin'

 

[Kyle]

Nobody cares about that when they want their 55" TV for $300. Just sayin'

I paid 1200 for my 46" over a decade ago so if it needs to be replaced, I won't mind having to pay 1k if it's made here?

 

[vraiblonde]

As pointed out SEVERAL times in this post and in past posts. The problem is COST! No matter how many times someone screams "Make it in the USA" it will not change the fact that the costs are what drives EVERYONE to purchase from overseas manufacturers.

So let's walk it down the logic trail:

We ship raw materials to China; the Chinese make those materials into goods; then ship them back here for sale to consumers. And that is cheaper than if we'd made it in the US to begin with.

I'm not buying that.

What I WILL buy is that it's one of those political trade deals that gives another country a piece of the pie in exchange for a kickback.

Similar to how we are such a wealth-producing country that we can give massive amounts of financial aid to other countries....yet we can't relieve the poor in our own country.

 

[OccamsRazor]

Similar to how we are such a wealth-producing country that we can give massive amounts of financial aid to other countries....yet we can't relieve the poor in our own country.

I think that this ^ Has more to do with this below..

What I WILL buy is that it's one of those political trade deals that gives another country a piece of the pie in exchange for a kickback.

As for this...

We ship raw materials to China; the Chinese make those materials into goods; then ship them back here for sale to consumers. And that is cheaper than if we'd made it in the US to begin with.

Pretty sure that China has more than enough of their own raw materials when compared to what we provide to them. Manufacturing short-cuts, low wages, and corporate tax breaks/discounts are probably more of a factor when considering low pricing of manufactured goods.

 

[HemiHauler]

So let's walk it down the logic trail:

We ship raw materials to China; the Chinese make those materials into goods; then ship them back here for sale to consumers. And that is cheaper than if we'd made it in the US to begin with.

This is precisely how it works. What you’re missing is some good old fashioned accounting trickery called externalizing costs. Basically, you externalize the costs associated with shipping your raw materials crap across the ocean and finished goods back. In short, the only cost of goods sold is your raw material and cheap Chinese labor.

One can have a very good career as a cost accountant doing this. I know many of them.

Externality - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SamSpade]

This is precisely how it works. What you’re missing is some good old fashioned accounting trickery called externalizing costs. Basically, you externalize the costs associated with shipping your raw materials crap across the ocean and finished goods back. In short, the only cost of goods sold is your raw material and cheap Chinese labor.

I assume that's pretty much what everyone already knows - that things are made cheaper in China not JUST due to cheaper labor, but because they are cutting costs in manufacturing by ignoring things like safety, pollution, and so on. I know from my meager experience in this is, it is very often VERY cost effective to allow a third party to do something for us that is just too costly to do in-house. For example, we found it very useful to buy widgets and code rather than develop them ourselves.

I remember (from reading - I'm not quite that old) in ancient times, nations (such as Rome) were reluctant to engage in trade with far off nations, because there was a basic mistrust that if you wanted to sell to someone far away, you MUST be overcharging your product. Trade was often restricted to rare items.

It does stretch credulity that while it's expensive to ship products all around the world, it is somehow STILL cost effective to ship things to China to be produced and then shipped back here to be sold for far less than similar ones manufactured here, even with the advantage of robotics and advanced automation. Something else is happening that isn't evident to me.

In the 90's, the word was - we're past, as a nation, an economy that makes things - we were becoming a "service" or "information" economy. And then as now, I called BS because the nations LEADING in manufacturing around the world are STILL first world nations - Japan, Germany and so on. There's no really good reason why we can't do what THOSE nations do. Does Japan have THEIR stuff made in China?

 

[HemiHauler]

It does stretch credulity that while it's expensive to ship products all around the world, it is somehow STILL cost effective to ship things to China to be produced and then shipped back here to be sold for far less than similar ones manufactured here, even with the advantage of robotics and advanced automation. Something else is happening that isn't evident to me.

Again, I mention cost externalization. This is precisely what it is designed to do. Specifically, if the costs of transportation by ship can magically disappear as a cost of doing business then it’s no longer part of the profit equation. And you get to price crappy T-shirts in Wal-Mart for $3 but the behind-the-scenes story is that $18 worth of costs are externalized and not visible by the consumer. The $18 figure is just for discussion purposes but it is a number >0.

Believe me: this is an entire discipline unto itself in the field of accounting.

I’d like to see manufacturing return to America as much as anyone. But investors are by and large a pretty smart lot: if there were profit potential capital would be POURING into American factories.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

Again, I mention cost externalization. This is precisely what it is designed to do. Specifically, if the costs of transportation by ship can magically disappear as a cost of doing business then it’s no longer part of the profit equation. And you get to price crappy T-shirts in Wal-Mart for $3 but the behind-the-scenes story is that $18 worth of costs are externalized and not visible by the consumer. The $18 figure is just for discussion purposes but it is a number >0.

Believe me: this is an entire discipline unto itself in the field of accounting.

I’d like to see manufacturing return to America as much as anyone. But investors are by and large a pretty smart lot: if there were profit potential capital would be POURING into American factories.

So who pays that $18? It has to come from somewhere.

 

[black dog]

Similar to how we are such a wealth-producing country that we can give massive amounts of financial aid to other countries....yet we can't relieve the poor in our own country.

How does one relieve what is now generations of familys living on nothing but the taxpayers money.
With the trillions we have spent overseas in the last hundred years on poverty/famine is there anywhere that they are now self sufficient?

 

[PeoplesElbow]

How does one relieve what is now generations of familys living on nothing but the taxpayers money.
With the trillions we have spent overseas in the last hundred years on poverty/famine is there anywhere that they are now self sufficient?

China

 

[HemiHauler]

So who pays that $18? It has to come from somewhere.

Right, well it's not like the bill doesn't get paid. Certainly, the shipping company has to be paid or else goods won't move. The idea of cost externalization doesn't mean that the manufacturer who has sent his labor operation overseas doesn't incur those costs. Rather, it is fully legal accounting trickery which allows those charges not to be part of COGS, cost of good sold, thus allowing $3 crappy cotton t-shirts to be sold, which have $18 of cost behind them.

One common technique is to use future earnings to offset/charge it off. But that really over simplifies how complicated it can be. There are TONS of accounting games which can be played legally in public corporations. One could argue it's little more than a Ponzi scheme which isn't sustainable and they may not be wrong. Time will tell.

Mind you, I have zero problems with any of it. The profit motive is king here and will seek profits where possible.