Gunwalker and the Foundation of Liberty

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EmptyTimCup

Guest
:otter:


Gunwalker and the Foundation of Liberty

The lives of the individuals harmed by Gunwalker mean nothing to statists.


It all comes down to this: Is there an inalienable right to self-defense? If there is, each man has indisputable, inestimable value, value that he may rightly preserve even if the life of another man is forfeit. A man may kill another in lawful self-defense even if the policy preferences of the state would prefer his death. If a right to self-defense actually exists, it is in a very real sense the highest law of the land and all lesser laws must pay it deference. It fundamentally defines the social contract, the nature of the relationship between man and the state.

But if there is no such inalienable right, the entire nature of the social contract is changed. Each man’s worth is measured solely by his utility to the state, and as such the value of his life rides a roller coaster not unlike the stock market: dependent not only upon the preferences of the party in power but upon the whims of its political leaders and the permanent bureaucratic class. The proof of this analysis surrounds us.

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At an earlier stage of glorious socialist evolution, we find the family of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, murdered by cartel gunmen wielding rifles walked across the border in the gunwalker scandal. As reported by Fox News, the family of Terry requested crime victim status in the case of Jamie Avila, charged with purchasing the guns that reportedly killed Terry. Victims with such an obvious and compelling connection to a criminal case are routinely granted this status by prosecutors, but not in a government fundamentally changing itself into a socialist state.

U.S. Attorney Dennis Burke has opposed the family, claiming that the victim of Avila’s crime was “society in general” rather than any particular persons. It should be prominently noted that it is Burke’s office which has been intimately involved with Operation Fast and Furious and the gunwalking scandal which flourished under that larger operation. At stake is the right of the Terry family, under the federal Crime Victims’ Rights Act, to work with prosecutors and to be heard at Avila’s sentencing.

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Indeed. And it is here that we return to the fundamental inalienable right: the right to self-defense. Those who acknowledge no such right also universally oppose the implementation of that right or the means by which it might be implemented. In short, they do not recognize the Second Amendment and oppose private ownership of firearms. The only legitimate use of force they recognize is that of the state, and that wielded by groups of “the people” acting in support of their policies, groups who will fill campaign coffers or at least reliably vote for them, groups such as unions or even criminals.

The anti-gun beliefs of Mr. Obama and Mr. Holder are well-known and extensively documented. And as Hans A. von Spakovsky and J. Christian Adams have recently documented, the Holder DOJ is feverishly working to pack the Justice Department with lawyers who certainly share their beliefs in this and every other transformational socialist endeavor.

The lives of the individuals harmed by Gunwalker mean nothing to statists, for they recognize no right to self-defense, inalienable or man-bestowed. If they recognize no such right, each human life has only that value the state is willing to recognize at any given moment. The lives of the Mexican law enforcement officers and civilians are worth nothing to the Obama administration, which hid Gunwalker not only from Mexican authorities but from ATF agents in Mexico.

And now the Obama administration has revealed its assessment of the value of the life of a Border Patrol officer: Zero. Agent Terry is of no value, for the crime was committed not against him, but the state, which in its wisdom and mercy is far more concerned with protecting feckless bureaucrats and politicians than American citizens.

England has seen riots because the English allowed those who rule them to place what value they choose on the lives of Englishmen. They chose the indolent, the parasites, the criminals, the barbarians over honest, productive Englishmen and denied them their very right to exist when attacked by members of the parasitical class, the class established by the state and the class which perpetuates the state lest its very nourishment be cut off.

Gunwalker is the fruit of that soil transplanted to America. All of the economic, foreign policy, and other debacles foisted on the American public by past progressives and Barack Obama have grown from it. What remains to be seen is whether their policies will reach their full expression in flame, as in England, or whether Americans can reclaim the very foundation of liberty, the foundation without which no other right or privilege matters.
 
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theHypocrite

taking chances
so, was the killed Border Agent unarmed ???

what's your point ???

has the Obama administration passed any anti-gun laws ???

has the Obama administration de-armed the Border Patrol ???
 

aps45819

24/7 Single Dad
so, was the killed Border Agent unarmed ???

what's your point ???

has the Obama administration passed any anti-gun laws ???

has the Obama administration de-armed the Border Patrol ???
The point is that the Obama administration is once again allowing (encouraging?) the law to be violated to achieve their political goals?
 

theHypocrite

taking chances
The point is that the Obama administration is once again allowing (encouraging?) the law to be violated to achieve their political goals?
wow --- is this something new

are you telling me that Obama is the first US President to violate or encouraging violation the law ???
 

aps45819

24/7 Single Dad
wow --- is this something new

are you telling me that Obama is the first US President to violate or encouraging violation the law ???
I'm saying that we have on doing it now.

Are you saying it's OK to rob a bank because somebody else already robbed one?
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
has the Obama administration de-armed the Border Patrol ???
THERE is something about the Border Patrol ROE that required them to engage obviously armed border crosses with Bean Bags. Border Patrol fired a Salvo of Bean Bags per the ROE from Obama's administration which was met with a salvo of 7.62 from the drug runners.

So I'd say the answer to your question is yes.
 

theHypocrite

taking chances
THERE is something about the Border Patrol ROE that required them to engage obviously armed border crosses with Bean Bags. Border Patrol fired a Salvo of Bean Bags per the ROE from Obama's administration which was met with a salvo of 7.62 from the drug runners.

So I'd say the answer to your question is yes.
don't know where you got you bean bag ROE information

but accounts of his death state that he and other agents exchanged gun fire (shots) and there were no account of these agents firing bean bags
 

theHypocrite

taking chances
I'm saying that we have on doing it now.

Are you saying it's OK to rob a bank because somebody else already robbed one?
no .. it is not okay

but your were suppose to show us (me) how the Obama administration has done anything to restrict gun rights. to date, i don't think the Obama administration has passed any law, attempted to pass any law or even announced an Executive order restricting any Second Amendment rights

so, again we see how your fiction is used to trump facts, evidence, etc
 

aps45819

24/7 Single Dad
The point is that the Obama administration is once again allowing (encouraging?) the law to be violated to achieve their political goals?
no .. it is not okay

but your were suppose to show us (me) how the Obama administration has done anything to restrict gun rights. to date, i don't think the Obama administration has passed any law, attempted to pass any law or even announced an Executive order restricting any Second Amendment rights

so, again we see how your fiction is used to trump facts, evidence, etc
Did the administration allow and even fund the illegal transfer of arms to criminals through straw purchasers? Yes
Did the administration drop the voter intimidation charges against the Black Panthers? Yes
Is this administration taking actions against various states that are attempting to enforce immigration statutes they choose to ignore? Yes
Did this administration get involved with the bankruptcy of a private corporation and ignore the bankruptcy rules in order to provide a political payoff? Yes

so, again we see how facts, evidence, etc trump your fiction.
 

ImnoMensa

New Member
Obama told Mrs. Sarah Brady,"We are working under the radar" on gun control.

Is this the operation he was referring to?

I believe it was a part of it.

The ATF,FBI,and CIA were all a part of it. Eric Holder is stonewalling a Congressonal investigation into it. The agents who were working it finally couldn't stand it any more and blew the whistle. Agent Vince Cefalu was fired by the ATF ,Cefalu is credited for blowing the whistle on the now, disgraced ATF program known as Operation Gunrunner .

Obama announced that guns were being supplied to Cartel members by the United States. He failed to mention that it was under his auspices that it was happening. Even after it broke and was under investigation he had the nerve to write an EO, that placed restrictions on gun dealers. Making it a law that was never Passed.

Obama Executive Orders Impose New Gun Rules | TheBlaze.com

Now people are dead. Killed by guns sold during Operation Fast and Furious,Operation Gunwalker,or whatever operation you want to call it.

IMO and a lot of others, Obama and Holder were right in the middle of it. Under the radar.
 

Pushrod

Patriot
no .. it is not okay

but your were suppose to show us (me) how the Obama administration has done anything to restrict gun rights. to date, i don't think the Obama administration has passed any law, attempted to pass any law or even announced an Executive order restricting any Second Amendment rights
so, again we see how your fiction is used to trump facts, evidence, etc
I think your being a bit disengenuous by stating this.

He has nominated very anti-gun judges to the supreme court and other federal benches. He has stated publically that he wishes to restrict much of the second amendment. He assigned Eric Holder, a very anti-gun lawyer as Attorney General.

Just because the nation as a whole is more pro-gun and Obama knows that in his first term it would be political suicide to implement any gun control schemes at the federal level doesn't mean that it will not happen in a lame duck second term.

He also has to find ways around both the Heller and McDonald decisions. As mentioned above, he told the Bradies that he is working on ways to implement gun control schemes.
 

dontknowwhy

New Member
ya'll leave hypocrite alone!!...stick with picking on real honest patriotic AMERICANS!! He can't defend....well, hard facts...incriminating evidence, or anything he flaps his gums about...
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
don't know where you got you bean bag ROE information

but accounts of his death state that he and other agents exchanged gun fire (shots) and there were no account of these agents firing bean bags
McCombs reports that “Border Patrol agents shot beanbags at a group of suspected bandits before the men returned fire during a confrontation in a remote canyon, killing agent Brian Terry with a single gunshot, records show.

And an illegal immigrant wounded in the gunbattle who is now the only person in custody linked to the slaying contends he never fired a shot, according to FBI search warrant requests filed in the U.S. District Court in Tucson.”

The FBI report contains new information confirming that Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was killed by a single shot, with a bullet matching the caliber of an AK-47 rifle.



There are SEVERAL places that are reporting on the current ROE for the Border Patrol and also reporting on the escalation of the "firefight" taht killed Brian Terry. It started with an opening salvo of bean bags from our agents, to which the Drug Runners returned the favor using 7.62.

Think it brilliant to shoot a beanbag at someone you KNOW is armed with a real gun.. but if you are forced to abide by moronic rules, you are forced to do stupid things.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
And there is also this:

The SIR published in the Tucson Citizen reported,
BORTAC Agent Gabriel Fragoza (Class 595/EOD; 7/11/05), from the Blythe Station/Yuma Sector, deployed two rounds from a less than lethal device (bean bags from shotgun). Agent Fragoza also discharged an unknown number of rounds from his Service issued sidearm.

So Fragoza, on patrol with Terry, fired two bean bags before employing his sidearm..
 
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