Hey Hessain

harleygirl · Dec 9, 2005

Opinion, please? :popcorn:

http://www.leftbehind.com/channelendtimes.asp?pageid=1243&channelID=71

2ndAmendment · Dec 12, 2005

harleygirl said:
Opinion, please?
http://www.leftbehind.com/channelendtimes.asp?pageid=1243&channelID=71

Will I do?

harleygirl · Dec 12, 2005

2ndAmendment said:
Will I do?

Sure!! I found the article interesting.

2ndAmendment · Dec 12, 2005

harleygirl said:
Sure!! I found the article interesting.

There are two views of the last days. There are the pre-tribulation rapture believers and post tribulation believers. The "Left Behind" series is based on the pre-tribulation rapture belief. I am a post trib believer since I think that is what Jesus taught His deciples

Matthew 24

Signs of Christ's Return

1Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2And He said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down."

3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

4And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.

5"For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.

6"You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.

7"For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.

8"But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.

9"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.

10"At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.

11"Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.

12"Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.

13"But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

14"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Perilous Times

15"Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

17"Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.

18"Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.

19"But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!

20"But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.

21"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

22"Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

23"Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.

24"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

25"Behold, I have told you in advance.

26"So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.

27"For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

28"Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

The Glorious Return

29"But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30"And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

31"And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Parable of the Fig Tree

32"Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.

34"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

35"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

36"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

37"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.

38"For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,

39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

40"Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.

41"Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.

Be Ready for His Coming

42"Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 43"But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.

44"For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

45"Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time?

46"Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.

47"Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

48"But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,'

49and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards;

50the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know,

51and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

and is in line with Daniel and Revelation, too. I think the pre-trib folks somehow use

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

to believe that the believers will be taken before the tribulation, but when read in context with the rest of the chapter and Matthew 24, Daniel, Revelation, and the other prophetic books, I don't see it. But it is not worth arguing about. If the taking of the believers is pre-trib, great. If it is post trib and I have to go through the persecution, then nothing will hapen that I'm not expecting to go through.

2ndAmendment · Dec 12, 2005

The falling away of believers like slotted and others is prophesied. One such place is

2 Timothy 3

"Difficult Times Will Come"

1But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,

3unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,

4treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

5holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

6For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses,

7always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith.

9But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, just as Jannes's and Jambres's folly was also.

10Now you followed my teaching, conduct, purpose, faith, patience, love, perseverance,

11persecutions, and sufferings, such as happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium and at Lystra; what persecutions I endured, and out of them all the Lord rescued me!

12Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

13But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

14You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them,

15and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

and

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

Man of Lawlessness

1Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

and

1 Timothy 4:1-4

Apostasy

1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

3men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 also reinforces the post tribulation concept of the last days.

Every day puts us closer to the Last Days, but we each have a last day even if we do not live in our current bodies until Christ's return. None of know when our life on earth will be required of us. In that sense, we should live our lives like Jesus is returning at any moment.

slotted · Dec 12, 2005

2ndAmendment said:
There are two views of the last days. There are the pre-tribulation rapture believers and post tribulation believers.

There are only two views if your dispensationalism is pre-millennialism.

harleygirl · Dec 12, 2005

Thanks 2a. I guess it all boils down to personal interpretation.

Hessian · Dec 20, 2005

Excellent overview 2nd A!

I just don't have the time to cut & paste it together...you did a great job.

Personally, I am hopeful of a Pre trib rapture but We know that His flock has been persecuted for many generations and those persecutions are intensifying now. How dare I claim that Christ will pull away his children before the madness & persecution that is to follow? There are many who will
"claim Lord, Lord..."
and the persecution will thin out the "worldly believers."

The Left behind series is thought provoking...and forces me to go back and look at Daniel & Revelation to see where their interpretation lies.

Harleygirl...I hope you see it as more than just entertainment--that you would weigh & consider what has been taught. Let those doubts go...and begin to look for the signs that were prophecied.

PJay · Dec 20, 2005

But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.

....(and the rest of it that followed). No doubt they are here. Why are Christians so quiet? The silence is deafening. You are the majority, yet you are not speaking, not standing in crowds while this nation is going down the toilet. Speak up for God's sake!

This forum is an example...I believe there are many Christians in here, yet they do not post..do they fear being attacked? What is it? Please someone explain this to me.

2ndAmendment · Dec 20, 2005

Homesick said:
....(and the rest of it that followed). No doubt they are here. Why are Christians so quiet? The silence is deafening. You are the marority, yet you are not speaking, not standing in crowds while this nation is going down the toilet. Speak up for God's sake!

This forum is an example...I believe there are many Christians in here, yet they do not post..do they fear being attacked? What is it? Please someone explain this to me.

Many "Christians" fear persecution; they don't want to be seen as different. They forget:

Matthew 10:27-29

27"What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops.

28"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

29"Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.

1 Peter 3

13Who is there to harm you if you prove zealous for what is good?

14But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed AND DO NOT FEAR THEIR INTIMIDATION, AND DO NOT BE TROUBLED,

15but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;

16and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.

17For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.

Hey Hessain

harleygirl

Working for the weekend

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner

harleygirl

Working for the weekend

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner

slotted

New Member

harleygirl

Working for the weekend

Hessian

Well-Known Member

PJay

Well-Known Member

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner