Hey Tilted!

stgislander

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
This is/was Tilted's view on the "Evolution of Democracy". So good read a read I kept it.

I'd also give my take on this point. I wouldn't say the U.S. is done. It's like so many things in this Universe, they change over time. The U.S. won't end anytime soon, I don't think; but it will probably continue to transform into something that I (and you I suspect) find less ideal - something less defined by some of the beautiful notions of individual liberty from which it was supposedly, at least in part, born.

But I don't think that makes it less by the people, I think it makes it more so. This is the natural evolution of mass-participation democracy. This is the transformation that democracy on this scale is going to bring, I can't see a way around that. The details may diverge and the specific roads taken may vary, but a general disregard for individual liberty (at least a lessening of the primacy of its valuation relative to the perceived good of society as a whole) is where democracy - where letting the people collectively, through an arbitrary process, make the decisions that determine where a society goes - takes you. This is what by the people looks like. It's not conducive to individual liberty, that's why a strong set of pre-established rules and constraints is necessary. But eventually those constraints, no matter how well intended or well crafted, will be overpowered by the collective force (and natural shortsightedness) of democracy. In the end they're just words on paper with little real power to hold back the flood that's building behind the dam they mean to create.

It's like humanity trying to stop the Borg by placing signposts declaring - Borg Free Zone - all around the Solar System. The Borg overruns and assimilates, overruns and assimilates, overruns and assimilates - all the while getting stronger and stronger by picking the targets it's already strong enough to conquer with the effect being that it irresistibly becomes strong enough to conquer those targets which it previously could not. Democracy let loose, given even a sliver to get its foot in the door, won't be held back by romantic notions of freedom nor previously agreed upon rules meant to enshrine those notions. It will overrun them. Then it's left to the Universe to remind Democracy and its constituent parts who's the real boss. If that latter step is what you're referring to as the U.S. being done, then yeah I'd agree - eventually Universal truths make themselves known and smooth out the unsustainable outcroppings that are allowed to form briefly. Eventually our society will collapse, but who knows how long that will be - I don't necessarily think it will be within my lifetime. But more importantly to my point, that was always going to be the case. It's a natural evolution, and the general track we're on to get to that eventual collapse is indicative of our having embraced mostly democratic processes. Different political frameworks would take us on a different general track to the same collapse (and, btw, recreation). More so than anything, the Universe waxes and wanes - that's just what it does. And such has been the story of, and will continue to be the story of, human society in particular.

Anyway... This is government by the people, this is what it look like.
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Cheers Tilted. :buddies:
 
Merlin99

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
vraiblonde said:
Sorry for your luck but I have it on good authority from someone close to him. He may give us a visit some day and you can ask him.

Another thing:

Some of you all - okay, I'm talking to Psy - get invested in strangers on the internet whom you've never met and know nothing about, and you attribute things to them based on your perceptions that aren't reality. And I get it - that happened to me with Bruzilla back in the day, and I never again will get emotionally involved with strangers on the internet.
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I used to like his interpretation of SC verdicts
 
SamSpade

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
stgislander said:
This is/was Tilted's view on the "Evolution of Democracy". So good read a read I kept it.



Cheers Tilted. :buddies:
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Good. I don't remember seeing it the first time.

You wanna know where I fear we're going?

I went to China in 2013 to adopt my last child. While we spent time in Nanchang for about a week - the rest of the time was spent in much more modern cities like Beijing and Guangzhou. Guangzhou is a really beautiful city. My wife said she might even want to live there one day.

What I saw was - mostly unexpected. Unlike Russia where the failures of Communism are evident almost everywhere - except maybe Moscow and St. Petersburg - China could have been Japan. It could have been Singapore. Really. People lived their lives like anyone else in the West. Nice clothes, nice cars. Roads are nice, airports are clean and efficient. Unless you piss them off. THEN you really see - China.

One of the things that surprised me most about China was - everywhere else we went, you could see American products, American pizza, American candy, American cigarettes, soda, movies, TV shows. We're everywhere. But - not there. Really. Yeah, you can find a McDonald's or Starbucks. But there's no guarantee the movie theater will have our movies or the TV will have our shows. If you go to the grocery stores - you might not be able to pick up a Snickers or a Reese's. Because they have their OWN economy and their own stuff.

It wasn't what I expected. Well, until we met the countryside. Out there, the people LIKE Mao. They revere communism. They don't have much.

So where are we going? Kind of - Brave New World. As long as the people are happy with their bread and circuses. I see us in a future where the people don't really have much say in the way they are governed, but the powers in charge make sure they're kept satisfied. In China, they really don't have any say in their government at all - but - they have their cell phones and their theaters and nightlife and - well - most of what they need. They're fairly content.
 
Bann

Bann

Doris Day meets Lady Gaga
PREMO Member
I miss Tilted. :bawl:

I was also right about Trump, and Tilted thought he'd never be POTUS. I really wanted my street cred from him. :biggrin:
 
vraiblonde

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
SamSpade said:
It wasn't what I expected. Well, until we met the countryside. Out there, the people LIKE Mao. They revere communism. They don't have much.
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That's funny because it's the exact opposite in the US. The big cities love their communism (in theory) and the rural areas are like, "Oh no you don't, pal."
 
PsyOps

PsyOps

Pixelated
SamSpade said:
Good. I don't remember seeing it the first time.

You wanna know where I fear we're going?

I went to China in 2013 to adopt my last child. While we spent time in Nanchang for about a week - the rest of the time was spent in much more modern cities like Beijing and Guangzhou. Guangzhou is a really beautiful city. My wife said she might even want to live there one day.

What I saw was - mostly unexpected. Unlike Russia where the failures of Communism are evident almost everywhere - except maybe Moscow and St. Petersburg - China could have been Japan. It could have been Singapore. Really. People lived their lives like anyone else in the West. Nice clothes, nice cars. Roads are nice, airports are clean and efficient. Unless you piss them off. THEN you really see - China.

One of the things that surprised me most about China was - everywhere else we went, you could see American products, American pizza, American candy, American cigarettes, soda, movies, TV shows. We're everywhere. But - not there. Really. Yeah, you can find a McDonald's or Starbucks. But there's no guarantee the movie theater will have our movies or the TV will have our shows. If you go to the grocery stores - you might not be able to pick up a Snickers or a Reese's. Because they have their OWN economy and their own stuff.

It wasn't what I expected. Well, until we met the countryside. Out there, the people LIKE Mao. They revere communism. They don't have much.

So where are we going? Kind of - Brave New World. As long as the people are happy with their bread and circuses. I see us in a future where the people don't really have much say in the way they are governed, but the powers in charge make sure they're kept satisfied. In China, they really don't have any say in their government at all - but - they have their cell phones and their theaters and nightlife and - well - most of what they need. They're fairly content.
Click to expand...

I think this analysis applies to just about every country run by socialism. In Germany, there is not real wealth for people to attain. I'd 99% of the people live in very small, cramped apartments. Only the very few elites hold all the wealth and luxury. In the same way you explained China, as long as they have their amenities, they are content. Saudi Arabia was even worse. The only people that are allowed to obtain wealth are true Saudis. SA was a country, a lot like the US, where people from all over the world were drawn there because of the opportunities to get wealthy on oil and gold. But the Saudis reigned in control of the oil and the immigrants were left with driving taxis and running convenience stores and such.

Prices for just about everything is hugely expensive because of massive taxes. Gasoline in Europe is twice what we pay in this country.

And the biggest part about any of these countries is, they really aren't truly free. They don't have a constitution that guarantees the power is in the hands of the people.
 
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