So there you go - he doesn't want help, yet the Post is trying to make him out to be this pathetic person. I do think this is a typical homeless person - they choose to live like that. This country has so many friggin' programs for the poor that you'd have to work really hard to starve to death out in the cold.
We went past a soup kitchen in DC last month and there was a line around the block of people waiting to get fed. MOST of them were young men in their 20's. My BIL said that's mostly who fills the homeless shelters there, too. So this myth of the homeless being these old people who are unemployable is BS.
F
Flo
Guest
True to a point. Though from what I have seen in DC, it appears the older homeless people don't accept help as readily as a younger man/woman in their 20's. Plus the 59 year old Vietnam Vet in the article is more adapted to how he lives independently in the elements of the outdoors....I see his point, but also agree that the Washington Post is trying to make him out to be pathetic.
F
Flo
Guest
There are also more young 20 something males sitting on the corners in DC with a cup or basket in their hands begging for money, who appear very employable....which is also BS.
That begs the question - what are we supposed to do for someone who won't accept help? There was a big stink in NYC a few years ago because the cops started arresting homeless people who camped out in front of businesses. The libs went CRAZY, saying how can you do that to homeless people? But having all these vagrants around was hurting these businesses, so what are you supposed to do?
Anyway, the cops would round these folks up, haul them off to the pokey, then try and make arrangements for them to go to a shelter or get some kind of assistance. Guess what? A huge majority of these people would take off and not accept the help offered! The ones interviewed said they'd rather have the dignity of living independently, rather than taking a handout.
So what's the solution?
Anyway, the cops would round these folks up, haul them off to the pokey, then try and make arrangements for them to go to a shelter or get some kind of assistance. Guess what? A huge majority of these people would take off and not accept the help offered! The ones interviewed said they'd rather have the dignity of living independently, rather than taking a handout.
So what's the solution?
F
Flo
Guest
Originally posted by vraiblonde
That begs the question - what are we supposed to do for someone who won't accept help? There was a big stink in NYC a few years ago because the cops started arresting homeless people who camped out in front of businesses. The libs went CRAZY, saying how can you do that to homeless people? But having all these vagrants around was hurting these businesses, so what are you supposed to do?
Anyway, the cops would round these folks up, haul them off to the pokey, then try and make arrangements for them to go to a shelter or get some kind of assistance. Guess what? A huge majority of these people would take off and not accept the help offered! The ones interviewed said they'd rather have the dignity of living independently, rather than taking a handout.
So what's the solution?
It is a real problem, though I really don't see any solution. From my observance, it is getting worse. As the old saying goes, "You can't drag a horse to water!" The only thing I could guess is humiliation and pride, and most of them having personal possessions they drag around with them. Guess I wonder if they are afraid of getting mugged in the shelters of what they do have left, or what is in their minds.
I guess one would only know if they were in such a circumstance, and hopefully I or any family member will never know.Of course, in DC, homelessness is much more a reality than in Southern Maryland, as it is in your face all the time. Not too many warm places to bunk down for the night in DC if you don't want to go to a homeless shelter, other than the grates on the streets near businesses. It is an eyesore most definitely, though I don't see any county or DC executives with any answers either. :shrug:
It used to be that you'd get arrested for vagrancy if you were some hobo hanging around. Now they're called "homeless" and have movies of the week about them and advocacy groups. 
King of the Road, indeed.
King of the Road, indeed.
jlabsher
Sorry about that chief.
Most of the homeless are mentally ill too. Probably the increase in homelessness has to do with the funding cuts in state mental hospitals and the degradation of the social fabric. When I was little mentally ill people who weren't that bad were kept in the parents or relatives home, now that won't happen. Also the homeless were rode out of town on a rail or given a hot meal and "escorted" to the city limits by police with the instruction to never return.
When I see people in DC giving them money though it gets me mad, if they weren't given money they would move on. Like it was said, to starve to death in this country you have to try pretty hard.
When I see people in DC giving them money though it gets me mad, if they weren't given money they would move on. Like it was said, to starve to death in this country you have to try pretty hard.
JLab, there's hope for you yet. 
jlabsher
Sorry about that chief.
Just from seeing them on the streets. Also I have anecdotal evidence that many are vets, how do I know this? I work for the VA and know several counselors who can justify that, also that they are mentally ill vets. The big problem with this is that there is a large support network for homeless and mentally ill vets, including monthly pay equalling up to around $25K a year. They want to be homeless or distrust the gov's a lot.
cattitude
My Sweetest Boy
I don't know the "facts" either, but after working in DC for the last 10 years, it's obvious many of the homeless I see are mentally ill or doing a damn good job of acting the part. Many of the ones I see have been around for a better part of my time in DC and they stay in the same general vicinity. Part of the problem with paranoia, schizophrenia and other mental illnesses of this type is that the individuals don't really perceive they have a problem or that what they are doing isn't really acceptable.
You'd almost have to be mentally to sleep on the streets and panhandle for a living. When was the last time you saw a clean-shaven, well-hygiened homeless person? Never, that's when. So there's some mental illness for you right there.
It wouldn't surprise me that a lot of older homeless men are vets. Most guys that age, homeless or not, are vets of either Vietnam, Korea or maybe WWII if they're REALLY old.
It wouldn't surprise me that a lot of older homeless men are vets. Most guys that age, homeless or not, are vets of either Vietnam, Korea or maybe WWII if they're REALLY old.
jlabsher
Sorry about that chief.
http://www.calpsych.org/publications/access/homelessness.html
Although less than 5% of the population suffers from severe mental illness, they comprise an estimated 20-40% of the homeless population
Severe mental illness is the catchphrase there. If you add mild mental illness the numbers probably jump.
http://www.nationalhomeless.org/veterans.html
Approximately 40% of homeless men are veterans, although veterans comprise only 34% of the general adult male population.
http://www.sf-homeless-coalition.org/substancefacts.html
While estimates vary, between 31% and 50% of homeless people are self reported to have substance abuse issues.
Can't you use Google?
Although less than 5% of the population suffers from severe mental illness, they comprise an estimated 20-40% of the homeless population
Severe mental illness is the catchphrase there. If you add mild mental illness the numbers probably jump.
http://www.nationalhomeless.org/veterans.html
Approximately 40% of homeless men are veterans, although veterans comprise only 34% of the general adult male population.
http://www.sf-homeless-coalition.org/substancefacts.html
While estimates vary, between 31% and 50% of homeless people are self reported to have substance abuse issues.
Can't you use Google?
Cari's t-shirt = "If you don't like my attitude, quit talking to me"
jlabsher
Sorry about that chief.
Sorry, don't get your skivvies in a bunch. I had heard that "most" of the homeless were mentally ill. Found several sources that agreed with the 25% figure, but one that said more. I tend to agree that they would have to be crazy not to take advantage of the large social net provided in this country to get them off the street and back into the workaday world. If not crazy then at least antisocial or something.
You know that statistics can be used in different ways to provide "proof" for any argument.
I've lived in some pretty crappy places and mooched off friends before in real bad times so I can understand that it can be a hard row to hoe for people sometimes, I just don't see the reason for homeless folks in the city, the squatters in the woods is another story, they seem to be doing it by conscious decision. I've been there too, but it was mooching off some hippies out west many moons ago until I got tired of their crap and got a job on a ranch.
You know that statistics can be used in different ways to provide "proof" for any argument.
I've lived in some pretty crappy places and mooched off friends before in real bad times so I can understand that it can be a hard row to hoe for people sometimes, I just don't see the reason for homeless folks in the city, the squatters in the woods is another story, they seem to be doing it by conscious decision. I've been there too, but it was mooching off some hippies out west many moons ago until I got tired of their crap and got a job on a ranch.
M
metoo
Guest
I just miss the days when we called them "bums".
cattitude
My Sweetest Boy
I actually think many people can be just a few paychecks away from homelessness. People fall on bad luck, lose their jobs and without the aid of family and friends, you can lose everything pretty quickly. Get behind in a few bills and the despair sets in and you can't see the forest for the trees. Add emotional or mental illness to the mix and some people just never recover.
Don't get me wrong, I see what some of you are saying but not all people are homeless because of choice.
Don't get me wrong, I see what some of you are saying but not all people are homeless because of choice.
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crabcake
But wait, there's more...
however, if they remain homeless, that IS a choice. Could a solution be to privatize and subsidize a facility someplace for these folks and ship them off? For example, up in PA, there is a place for adults where they live, eat, sleep, etc. there, and they have a work program for them during the day. My brother worked there a few years ago. The majority of "residents" (that I saw) were mentally-challenged in some capacity (i.e. born addicted to drugs/alcohol and it caused permanent damage).
They have a campus-like setting with several houses and on-site activities (library, gym, etc.). The residents live in the houses which are overseen by staff who monitor their meds, prepare meals, and keep the general order of the house. The residents have a job (extent of which is determined by their mental capacity and ability), and they go there daily or a couple times a week (can't remember.) The work they do could range from simple assembly to helping with the maintenance of the grounds to farming or something. Any money earned from the sale of goods produced could help offset the cost of the facility as well. Set up a few of these outside of town somewhere (NOVA would be a great place, from what I hear!
)If it would/could work, I'd gladly tack on a couple extra bucks in my bi-weekly donation to Uncle Sam to get the people off the streets and into something that perhaps betters themselves and the community.
B
Bruzilla
Guest
One good point that the article makes is the lack of affordable housing in southern Maryland. I know a young couple with two kids (and another on the way), who live with the wife's parents in the most run-down, deplorable home you can imagine. No water, no heat, the ceiling is falling in so they have to stay on the first floor, and they're paying $1,100 a month to live in this shack! It's what's left of an old farmhouse that was built about the time of Moses and the owner rents it off the books while he rents the surrounding farmland off to farmers, so there's no requirement for him to maintain the place. I've asked them why they don't move and it's because they can't afford a place on their own and a place that's big enough to support all of them will cost at least $1,400 a month and they can barely afford the $1,100.
I suppose I could feel sorry for them, but then I think about the old story about the Ethipoians starving out in the desert. The answer isn't feeding them, it's getting them to move to where there's some food! I've asked this couple why they don't move to Virginia or somewhere else in Maryland where housing is cheaper and more available, and the wife tells me that she grew up in St. Mary's County and she wants to stay here. I told her I grew up in Pittsburgh, and would love to move back there, but there's no work for me there.
So if a person is willing to do things that are not in the best interests of themself or their family, I guess all I can say is you deserve what you get.
I suppose I could feel sorry for them, but then I think about the old story about the Ethipoians starving out in the desert. The answer isn't feeding them, it's getting them to move to where there's some food! I've asked this couple why they don't move to Virginia or somewhere else in Maryland where housing is cheaper and more available, and the wife tells me that she grew up in St. Mary's County and she wants to stay here. I told her I grew up in Pittsburgh, and would love to move back there, but there's no work for me there.
So if a person is willing to do things that are not in the best interests of themself or their family, I guess all I can say is you deserve what you get.