Homosexual suing God?

Xaquin44

New Member
Thank you! This is why God set a standard but the Libs won't see it. First, it's the multiple spouses, then the many sex partners, then sex with animals, then same sex marrying, then child abuse (NAMBLA),
DOGS AND CATS LIVING TOGETHER! MASS HYSTERIA!

moron.

This poor miserable homo wants to sue God. WHAT A FOOL! Let's see; I want to lie and God said I can't. I know, I'll sue Him. Can you see the depravity that his wrong choices have caused?
we all agree that attempting to sue god is stupid. I seriously doubt his homosexuality drove him to sue god, as many homosexuals .... in fact, the vast vast vast majority of them don't try to sue god ....

attributing an action (suing god) to something (homosexuality) that has no relevance is a piss poor way to argue.

I've never taken you seriously, not because you're a christian, but because your arguments and reasoning logic are terrible.


edit: IS .... I will sell you a stone that I usually carry on my person. God descended from the heavens and gave it to me. He said that while carrying this stone I will never be harmed by rabid tigers. Clearly it has worked, since not once have I been mauled by rabid tigers whilst carrying the stone on my person.
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
DOGS AND CATS LIVING TOGETHER! MASS HYSTERIA!

moron.



we all agree that attempting to sue god is stupid. I seriously doubt his homosexuality drove him to sue god, as many homosexuals .... in fact, the vast vast vast majority of them don't try to sue god ....

attributing an action (suing god) to something (homosexuality) that has no relevance is a piss poor way to argue.

I've never taken you seriously, not because you're a christian, but because your arguments and reasoning logic are terrible.


edit: IS .... I will sell you a stone that I usually carry on my person. God descended from the heavens and gave it to me. He said that while carrying this stone I will never be harmed by rabid tigers. Clearly it has worked, since not once have I been mauled by rabid tigers whilst carrying the stone on my person.
He's one of three I keep on ignore. Every one of his arguments is god said it and I don't care if there is a world of proof against it, that's the way it is. It then end with the sanctimonious "change your ways now"
 

Xaquin44

New Member
He's one of three I keep on ignore. Every one of his arguments is god said it and I don't care if there is a world of proof against it, that's the way it is. It then end with the sanctimonious "change your ways now"
and a healthy percentage of the time he ignores what the bible says anyway if he doesn't like something.
 

ItalianScallion

Harley Rider
DOGS AND CATS LIVING TOGETHER! MASS HYSTERIA! moron. we all agree that attempting to sue god is stupid. I seriously doubt his homosexuality drove him to sue god, as many homosexuals .... in fact, the vast vast vast majority of them don't try to sue god ....attributing an action (suing god) to something (homosexuality) that has no relevance is a piss poor way to argue. I've never taken you seriously, not because you're a christian, but because your arguments and reasoning logic are terrible.
Dude, I've never dealt with a person who is as blind as you. Dogs and cats compared to humans? Stevie Wonder can see that.
How the heck can you miss it son? He's suing God because he is gay! He's not suing God because the Bible doesn't allow him to cut grass on Sunday!
The reason you can't follow my reasoning is that it isn't mine, it's God's and without faith.... well, you know the rest.
and a healthy percentage of the time he ignores what the bible says anyway if he doesn't like something.
Xaquin, tell your partner that we'll meet on Judgment Day and see who ignored what.
 

Xaquin44

New Member
Dude, I've never dealt with a person who is as blind as you. Dogs and cats compared to humans? Stevie Wonder can see that.
How the heck can you miss it son? He's suing God because he is gay! He's not suing God because the Bible doesn't allow him to cut grass on Sunday!
The reason you can't follow my reasoning is that it isn't mine, it's God's and without faith.... well, you know the rest.
It's true, this man has no penis.

Xaquin, tell your partner that we'll meet on Judgment Day and see who ignored what.
Why would I tell my wife that?

but it's nice to see you talking for god again =)

keep it up =)

I'm sure he doesn't mind.
 
T

tiny_dancer33

Guest
dont most only last 2 or 3 minutes in a public restroom?

cant find that in the hetero world so easy now can you?
...:eyebrow:

Okay, I'm done. You just claimed that straight people never have casual sex and that all straight marriages are successes. I can't take this seriously anymore.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

This_person

Well-Known Member
Incest with consent-aged siblings or children has the capacity to result in the production of offspring with the potential for physical and mental deformities or weaknesses. Also, one of the best arguments I've heard is that heterosexuality and homosexuality are both states of a relationship, whereas polygamy and incest are actions. Sorry, that sounds kind of confusing. What I mean is that an incestuous or even bestial relationship can be either het or homo. The actions of polygamy and incest can be described by either being straight or gay. Gay relationships should not be grouped with the actual action being performed, they should be considered a category alongside straight relationships. A hetero relationship cannot be homo. But a polygamous, incestuous, or bestial relationship can be homo or hetero. Homo and hetero are just classifications for the actions based purely on gender, not on the actual mechanics of the action being performed. Therefore I think it's unfair to group homo relationships with polygamous/incestuous/bestial acts. They aren't the same type of descriptor.

If that makes sense. =/
I sort of agree with what you're saying when it comes to bestial acts. For others that want to lump that in, that's fine for them, but I don't take cross species dating the same as I do human/human :lol:

I do not see what you're saying insofar as polygamy or even incest relationships though. Hetero- or homo- would not be an issue, as homosexual relationhips are what's being discussed as acceptable or not acceptable in terms of government recognition of the relationship (calling it "marriage", applying similar benefits status, etc.).

So, what would the difference be if the relationship is between two, three, four, six, etc., etc., consenting aged people? A relationship of love, intimacy, logevity, etc., should be no different if it's two women, two men, a man and a woman, a man and two women, a woman and two men., a brother with his sister and her "partner" (whatever the gender may be), etc. As said above by many, just because you can't have children from the relationship does not mean the relationship isn't worthwhile, right? So, incestuous relationships shouldn't be a problem, right?

Polygamy and incest are very, very shortly down the slippery slope should we decide to recognize homosexual relationships as equal to the benefit of society as heterosexual relationships. Forget they're not as beneficial to society, forget that we're talking about 0.5% of the population that even wants the ability to do this (see links in previous posts for stats). Just imagine what else will be the logical outfall from it.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Why can't it stand by itself? Why do you worry about future problems that may or may not surface, this is as bad as DC worrying about what if's now that the Heller ruling came down.
A very fair question.

Because nothing stands by itself. Look at the arguments for homosexual marriage - "why don't homosexuals deserve the same status as heterosexuals?" has been the basic argument. Heterosexual marriage, clearly then, doesn't even stand by itself.

It's unrealistic to think that it would stand alone, and be the end.
 

bcp

In My Opinion
dont most only last 2 or 3 minutes in a public restroom?

cant find that in the hetero world so easy now can you?
...:eyebrow:

Okay, I'm done. You just claimed that straight people never have casual sex and that all straight marriages are successes. I can't take this seriously anymore.
look again, I said, MOST you changed it to ALL to fit your view.

and, if this goes on in the hetero world, I can pretty much tell you that Ive never heard of a hetero glory hole, or any such thing. Im sure there are parties or something that the vile can attend to transfer their STDs
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Regardless of the religious arguments against homosexual marriage, those of you who disagree with that argument are legally very correct - we don't make our laws based upon religious (only) arguments.

The question here is still not whether two people can be together and say they're married. Certainly, any two people of any race, gender, color, creed, nationality, etc., etc., can live together and call each other husband and wife (even if on doesn't fit the definition of the word). Ceremonies, parties, life celebrations, etc., etc., can all be had, and the state need not get involved in any of it.

A homosexual person has yet to be demonstrated to be denied any right. They are denied benefits with regards to tax laws, ease of paperwork, etc. Governments do this all of the time to innumerable different groups of people based on some type of status to socially engineer the society deemed best for all. We offer tax breaks to churches, we apply "sin taxes" to products we wish were not out there so much, we limit taxes on retirement savings to encourage people to save for themselves, etc., etc. Somewhere, many centuries ago, it was deemed best to not recognize homosexual unions as equally beneficial to society as heterosexual ones. It was deemed best to limit those unions to one person of each sex as opposed to a willy-nilly approach of just allowing everything.

I've yet to see a compelling argument against centuries of applied knowledge.
 
T

tiny_dancer33

Guest
Hetero- or homo- would not be an issue, as homosexual relationhips are what's being discussed as acceptable or not acceptable in terms of government recognition of the relationship (calling it "marriage", applying similar benefits status, etc.).

So, what would the difference be if the relationship is between two, three, four, six, etc., etc., consenting aged people?

Polygamy and incest are very, very shortly down the slippery slope should we decide to recognize homosexual relationships as equal to the benefit of society as heterosexual relationships.
A very fair point and one that I don't have a direct answer to. But honestly, though, put aside society's collective squeamishness over incestuous and polygamous relationships, and we see that those two kinds of relationships actually have more rights right now in most states than gay couples. I mean, gays are merely petitioning for access to the marriage system. Polygamous families have found a way not only to access the system but to benefit unfairly from it - part of the reason those huge compounds of polygamous fundamentalists can stay alive is the fact that the second+ wives aren't recognized as married and can receive federal welfare and benefits for their numerous children as "single" parents. And even incestuous relationships - as far as I'm aware, as long as you're not related any closer than first cousins, family members can still be legally married, because then at that point the chance of medical problems surfacing in the offspring is far less - even though the fact remains that they're family members.

So really, homosexual relationships, which are less detrimental to society and the people involved in them, have less acess to the marriage/family benefit system than polygamists and incestuous couples already do.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
A very fair point and one that I don't have a direct answer to. But honestly, though, put aside society's collective squeamishness over incestuous and polygamous relationships, and we see that those two kinds of relationships actually have more rights right now in most states than gay couples. I mean, gays are merely petitioning for access to the marriage system. Polygamous families have found a way not only to access the system but to benefit unfairly from it - part of the reason those huge compounds of polygamous fundamentalists can stay alive is the fact that the second+ wives aren't recognized as married and can receive federal welfare and benefits for their numerous children as "single" parents. And even incestuous relationships - as far as I'm aware, as long as you're not related any closer than first cousins, family members can still be legally married, because then at that point the chance of medical problems surfacing in the offspring is far less - even though the fact remains that they're family members.

So really, homosexual relationships, which are less detrimental to society and the people involved in them, have less acess to the marriage/family benefit system than polygamists and incestuous couples already do.
I don't understand how a homosexual couple have less access to the marriage/family benefit system than the polygamist. Each has zero access to being defined as a marriage (for the polygamist, everything after the marriage of one man and one woman). Each has the ability to call it a marriage among friends, to go through whatever ceremony pleases them - and then to the tax status of being single (single parenthood, welfare benefits, etc., as you described above). The same "advantages" exist each way.

As for the brother/sister, father/daughter, mother/son type relationships....if we can limit those and even first cousin relationships, why is that any worse than limiting same gendered relationships?
 
T

tiny_dancer33

Guest
I don't understand how a homosexual couple have less access to the marriage/family benefit system than the polygamist. Each has zero access to being defined as a marriage (for the polygamist, everything after the marriage of one man and one woman). Each has the ability to call it a marriage among friends, to go through whatever ceremony pleases them - and then to the tax status of being single (single parenthood, welfare benefits, etc., as you described above). The same "advantages" exist each way.

As for the brother/sister, father/daughter, mother/son type relationships....if we can limit those and even first cousin relationships, why is that any worse than limiting same gendered relationships?
Polygamous relationships are often proven to be emotionally and physically abusive to the women involved, especially since many of them are often underage. Incestuous relationships are often one-sided and abusive, and lend to psychological damage, and even if there were a loving and consensual incestuous relationship, the possiblity still exists for an innocent and non-consenting third party to be hurt by the relationship - that is, a potential child between the two relatives that carries a significantly higher risk for physcial or mental deformities because of bad genetics.

Why should a homosexual relationship, that hurts no one outside of it, has the same basic capacity to provide for a loving home for an adopted child (and yes, sometimes it fails, but so do straight parents), and causes less harm to society and those around them (except for their mortal souls, as some would believe), only get to enjoy the same status as a glorified harem or cousins in love?

And in answer to your other question, well, there really isn't. =/ For example, it is entirely possible that there is, somewhere, a polygamous relationship between multiple consenting adults, all of legal age, with no abuse or psycho-trauma involved, or a consenting relationship between two siblings who aren't messed up in the head (urk) and then, aside from general nastiness, there would be no reason to prevent those people from receiving the benefits of regular married couples. That's why I don't think that the government should have any say in regulation of marriage at all, or in distribution of benefits. Hell, polygamists get to essentially live like they're married and that's with essential child rape occurring. Why should gays have to live as if they were that low also? After all, the most important aspects of marriage are what take place on a personal or community level - the religious ceremony associated with marriage, the raising of a family, the togetherness. Why should a state be forced to recognize anything about marriage when it's really such a personal thing? Why should marriage have special government attention when it's really a private matter anyway?

But that's an entirely different discussion and reaches a much larger theoretical scope. [/digression] Basically, gay relationships are much less detrimental than most polygamous relationships, and I can't see how they should have to only enjoy the non-marital status of glorified child molesters.

P.S. It's actually been a pleasure discussing this with you, you've made some really good points and it's nice to have to really think about what someone else says. :yay:
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Polygamous relationships are often proven to be emotionally and physically abusive to the women involved, especially since many of them are often underage. Incestuous relationships are often one-sided and abusive, and lend to psychological damage, and even if there were a loving and consensual incestuous relationship, the possiblity still exists for an innocent and non-consenting third party to be hurt by the relationship - that is, a potential child between the two relatives that carries a significantly higher risk for physcial or mental deformities because of bad genetics.
While I am claiming to neither agree, nor disagree, with your points, you're doing the same thing to other relationships that many are doing to homosexual relationships - judging the basic value of the relationship. I don't mean that as a slam, but as a point to consider - I've given numerous links to studies/statistics that show upwards of 75% infidelity rates in homosexual couples, 500 times more child molestation of homosexual adoptive parents than heterosexual adoptive parents, etc., etc. Certainly, with a bit of looking, I could find statistics that show the negatives of the relationships as you describe above, but does that mean there should be governmental recognition of some relationships that cause harm, but not others?
Why should a homosexual relationship, that hurts no one outside of it, has the same basic capacity to provide for a loving home for an adopted child (and yes, sometimes it fails, but so do straight parents), and causes less harm to society and those around them (except for their mortal souls, as some would believe), only get to enjoy the same status as a glorified harem or cousins in love?
Again, you're classifying the relationship based upon your perception of it. I won't address the mortal souls comment, as that is up to the individual to decide, not the state.
And in answer to your other question, well, there really isn't. =/ For example, it is entirely possible that there is, somewhere, a polygamous relationship between multiple consenting adults, all of legal age, with no abuse or psycho-trauma involved, or a consenting relationship between two siblings who aren't messed up in the head (urk) and then, aside from general nastiness, there would be no reason to prevent those people from receiving the benefits of regular married couples. That's why I don't think that the government should have any say in regulation of marriage at all, or in distribution of benefits....After all, the most important aspects of marriage are what take place on a personal or community level - the religious ceremony associated with marriage, the raising of a family, the togetherness. Why should a state be forced to recognize anything about marriage when it's really such a personal thing? Why should marriage have special government attention when it's really a private matter anyway?... Basically, gay relationships are much less detrimental than most polygamous relationships, and I can't see how they should have to only enjoy the non-marital status of glorified child molesters.
I have little argument with this paragraph. I'm not certain the government should be involved with marriage at all.

If it weren't, though, who is going to protect the stereotypical stay-at-home mother who put her husband through college and stood by him throughout his career, being there for the kids and him, only to be replaced by a younger model when he hits 50 years old? What standard would there be for child support/spousal support/reasonable distribution of shared property? There are a hundred questions like this, but you get the drift.

Of course, the same questions can be asked of the homosexual relationship, the polygamous relationship, etc. So, that begs the question (which is really the basic, underlying answer to this whole question) - what value does society gain by heterosexual couples that any other form of relationship does not provide? I believe we have to look to history to see the answer to that question, as the value of the heterosexual couple only has been the defining building block of society for hundreds and hundreds of years. Religion notwithstanding, as the link I provided earlier shows that anything else fell out of societal favor around 500 AD, before Christianity had any significant dominance in governmental or societal affairs.
P.S. It's actually been a pleasure discussing this with you, you've made some really good points and it's nice to have to really think about what someone else says. :yay:
I fully agree, and appreciate the second compliment. I very much respect your opinion on this as well, and it's nice to have a discussion on here where both sides make each other think, and maybe help adjust an opinion or two. :buddies:
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
If the argument were true, wouldn't that have already happened in countries where forms of legalized gay marriage already exist? Wouldn't they have 'slid' towards legalized incest and bestial marriage? The reality is that a form of gay marriage has been legal in Scandinavian countries for over many years, and no such legalization has happened, nor has there been a clamor for it. It's a classic strawman argument.
How many years? :lmao: It doesn't happen overnight, or even in the same generation.

If the reverse were true, that there is no problem, why did societies that once allowed it move away from it, pre-Christianity's influence? Clearly, there's a societal gain from having a strict definition of what constitutes a "marriage". One that was learned, and we've apparently (as a society) forgotten.
If concern over the "slippery slope" were the real motive behind this argument, the advocate of this line of reasoning would be equally vocal about the fact that today, even as you read this, convicted murderers, child molesters, known pedophiles, drug pushers, pimps, black market arms dealers, etc., are quite free to marry, and are doing so. Where's the outrage? Of course there isn't any, and that lack of outrage betrays their real motives. This is an anti-gay issue and not a pro marriage issue.
Well, actually, as far as child molesters, murderers, pedophiles, etc.; those are cried out against, very vocally, even on these pages.

As for the drug pusher, black market arms dealer, etc., how is that applicable to the argument?
 
T

tiny_dancer33

Guest
If it weren't, though, who is going to protect the stereotypical stay-at-home mother who put her husband through college and stood by him throughout his career, being there for the kids and him, only to be replaced by a younger model when he hits 50 years old? What standard would there be for child support/spousal support/reasonable distribution of shared property? There are a hundred questions like this, but you get the drift.

Of course, the same questions can be asked of the homosexual relationship, the polygamous relationship, etc. So, that begs the question (which is really the basic, underlying answer to this whole question) - what value does society gain by heterosexual couples that any other form of relationship does not provide?
I agree with your first point. I'm saying that it's impossible to base the validity, potential for success, or benefit to society of a relationship by only considering who is involved in the relationship. (Which is, essentially, the same thing you're saying.) A gay relationship is no more automatically depraved and lustful than a straight marriage is automatically guaranteed to last (as any statistics will show, successful straight marriages are in the minority). It's just that a lot of the arguments on here against gay marriage is that the relationships are not meaningful because they are not lasting. I say, we allow straight divorces, but not gay marriage? We have no laws against adultery aside from accepted moral code, and no one has ever offered an argument suggesting legislation against straight people dating multiple times, or having sex before marriage. I've read your viewpoints on high divorce rates and I know you agree with this point.

I would caution to be a little wary of studies that claim staggering 75% infidelity rates among gay couples - how solid can those records possibly be? First of all, it's not as if they're married (through no fault of their own), so there are probably very few legal records demonstrating breakups of gay couples, whereas there would be for divorces of straight married couples. I'm sure a survey of many straight couples would reveal almost as much messing-around outside of their boyfriend-girlfriend relationships.

And if the infidelity of the relationships is what's troublesome, shouldn't that be a push to allow them marry? When people begin considering their significant other as someone that it is possible to spend their life with permanently, with the full respect accorded by common law, they'd probably take their relatoinships a little more seriously. That's kind of a cause-effect scenario, in my opinion. Society doesn't want to acknowledge these people as anything more than long term sex buddies or friends with benefits, so many of them choose to act accordingly. Straight people already do behave the same way, both in and out of marriage, and many more of them would if they had no official option for monogamy as well, I believe.

I do somewhat agree with your argument about providing benefits for the married couple described in your scenario. Also, imagine, if you will, a pair of sisters. Let's assume that both are either unmarried or widowed. One sister grows ill and requires live-in care and medical attention, so the other sister officially moves in with her to care for her. Why is the mother described in your scenario more deserving of support and benefits from the government than the caretaker sister just because she's married? Or, say, a single unmarried parent who must care for his or her children? I think it would make more sense to confer those benefits based on perhaps living together, or demonstrating a committed relationship. I mean, there's currently no legal test required for straight couples when they marry asking if they're really in love and if they'll be good parents in order to receive tax benefits.

Of course, hardly all of that can be undone at this point, and institutions such as child support and protections against divorce at this point have to be regulated by law. I just oppose the further grasp of government control over people's nuptials and living arrangements alike.

I'm going to have to partially disagree with your argument that committed heterosexual relationships are responsible for shaping our societies. I think monogamous relationships are responsible for doing so. After all, our government doesn't confer benefits on married people because they are straight, they do it to reward monogamy. In those times of yore, monogamy, not heterosexuality (after all, men using female prostitutes are hetero), would have been responsible for cutting down on promiscuity, so that men weren't siring hordes of children by different women, allowing for the establishment of families, creating senses of loyalty to communities by encouraging people to stay in the same place with a committed spouse. Of course, the open relationships at the time would all have been hetero because of religious influences, but I don't think it was the heterosexuality that was important as much as the fact that the idea of having as many sexual partners as possible was no longer deemed normal or even acceptable. And in that situation, wouldn't encouraging more people to get married truly be the cornerstone of our society?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

This_person

Well-Known Member
Because you and others have made arguments against Gay Marriage, on the basis of... wait let me look

Based on the supposed definition and basis above, if that WAS the true intent or basis of your argument against Gay Marriage, you should be even MORE vocal about denying marriage to convicted murderers, child molesters, known pedophiles, drug pushers, pimps, black market arms dealers, etc. since they are, without argument, MUCH more detrimental to society.
Well, I actually do denounce drug users and murderers far more than I do people who claim homosexual "marriage" is the same as heterosexual marriage.

But, I still don't see what a drug user/pusher or tax evader's marital status has to do with the severity of their crime.... :confused:

Do you think I am touting homosexuality as a crime in and of itself? If so, please re-read me. I'm not.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
I agree with your first point. I'm saying that it's impossible to base the validity, potential for success, or benefit to society of a relationship by only considering who is involved in the relationship. (Which is, essentially, the same thing you're saying.) A gay relationship is no more automatically depraved and lustful than a straight marriage is automatically guaranteed to last (as any statistics will show, successful straight marriages are in the minority). It's just that a lot of the arguments on here against gay marriage is that the relationships are not meaningful because they are not lasting. I say, we allow straight divorces, but not gay marriage? We have no laws against adultery aside from accepted moral code, and no one has ever offered an argument suggesting legislation against straight people dating multiple times, or having sex before marriage. I've read your viewpoints on high divorce rates and I know you agree with this point.
I don't personally think that gay or straight marriages, either one, hold any particularly higher depravity or lust :lol: Depravity is in the eye of the beholder, generally speaking. I don't even claim that there is any more "meaning" to the individuals involved in either case - again, that's up to the people involved. My arguments are (1) there is no reason to change based upon such an incredibly small amount of the population this would directly effect, (2) the definition of marriage has been pretty steady for centuries (until about 30-40 years ago), and there's no good reason to change the definition of the word, (3) for centuries society has chosen to build society that excluded equal social status of homosexual relationships; that does not mean scorn, ridicule, debasement, nor discrimination, it just means one type of relationship has been demonstrated to be better for society.

Again, by bringing up the spike in divorce rates after the laws on that were liberalized in the 1960's and the inherent strain that has put on society as a whole, you help make my point that ANY weakening of the status of marriage is bad for society as a whole.
I would caution to be a little wary of studies that claim staggering 75% infidelity rates among gay couples
I am, it was a study done by a lesbian with the intent of proving the opposite of what the results were. It was an in depth study of over 400 couples
And if the infidelity of the relationships is what's troublesome, shouldn't that be a push to allow them marry? When people begin considering their significant other as someone that it is possible to spend their life with permanently, with the full respect accorded by common law, they'd probably take their relatoinships a little more seriously.
The infidelity rate, alone, is not what's troublesome. It's the diluting of the word "marriage". If "the full respect accorded by common law" is what's required to help these people become more serious about their relationships, that makes me think you think they're not very serious about their relationships to begin with.
That's kind of a cause-effect scenario, in my opinion. Society doesn't want to acknowledge these people as anything more than long term sex buddies or friends with benefits, so many of them choose to act accordingly. Straight people already do behave the same way, both in and out of marriage, and many more of them would if they had no official option for monogamy as well, I believe.
Again, when the term of marriage is diluted or weakened, this is the logical result. It takes a long time, but this has been the on-going struggle for the stability of society for some time now. As for me (and I suspect you), what the state or others in society term my relationship with my wife is immaterial to how we treat each other. I would suspect the same is true in a homosexual relationship as well.
I do somewhat agree with your argument about providing benefits for the married couple described in your scenario. Also, imagine, if you will, a pair of sisters. Let's assume that both are either unmarried or widowed. One sister grows ill and requires live-in care and medical attention, so the other sister officially moves in with her to care for her. Why is the mother described in your scenario more deserving of support and benefits from the government than the caretaker sister just because she's married? Or, say, a single unmarried parent who must care for his or her children? I think it would make more sense to confer those benefits based on perhaps living together, or demonstrating a committed relationship. I mean, there's currently no legal test required for straight couples when they marry asking if they're really in love and if they'll be good parents in order to receive tax benefits.
I didn't follow the sister scenerio, but I agree with the rest. I basically view that, again, as up to society to police. Does anyone feel sorry for Liza or her ex for a hetero- woman marrying a homo- guy and the resultant fiasco it became? For "marriages of convenience" going awry? I don't, and I don't know anyone who does.
Of course, hardly all of that can be undone at this point, and institutions such as child support and protections against divorce at this point have to be regulated by law. I just oppose the further grasp of government control over people's nuptials and living arrangements alike.
And, no one is saying two homosexuals can't marry in a ceremony of their choice, live together in any manner they choose, have every trapping of a marriage that exists for a traditional couple. The only thing they lack is the tax/welfare benefits and responsibilities. The government supports that which benefits most the most with these benefits.
I'm going to have to partially disagree with your argument that committed heterosexual relationships are responsible for shaping our societies. I think monogamous relationships are responsible for doing so. After all, our government doesn't confer benefits on married people because they are straight, they do it to reward monogamy. In those times of yore, monogamy, not heterosexuality (after all, men using female prostitutes are hetero), would have been responsible for cutting down on promiscuity, so that men weren't siring hordes of children by different women, allowing for the establishment of families, creating senses of loyalty to communities by encouraging people to stay in the same place with a committed spouse.
Agree. It sounds like you're making my point.
Of course, the open relationships at the time would all have been hetero because of religious influences, but I don't think it was the heterosexuality that was important as much as the fact that the idea of having as many sexual partners as possible was no longer deemed normal or even acceptable.
First, they would have been hetero amost exclusively because that's what mankind is (about 98% to 2%), not because of religion. But, again, you're describing my point - society deemed what was acceptable based upon what benefited society most.
And in that situation, wouldn't encouraging more people to get married truly be the cornerstone of our society?
As long as the marriage benefited society.
 

foodcritic

New Member
ignoranus

Because you and others have made arguments against Gay Marriage, on the basis of... wait let me look

Based on the supposed definition and basis above, if that WAS the true intent or basis of your argument against Gay Marriage, you should be even MORE vocal about denying marriage to convicted murderers, child molesters, known pedophiles, drug pushers, pimps, black market arms dealers, etc. since they are, without argument, MUCH more detrimental to society.
Knucklehead ( and others) have apparently never read a history book or looked back at history to see what homosexuaity, bestiality and/or pedophilia have to do with societal DECLINE. Other things that may tie in are divorce, abortion (infanticide for some).

I know we have hit on these topics all before. There must be some sort of physhosis of denial that prevents these people from some review of history. Any fool can see the extent of thses behaviors in other periods of history.

Knucklehead finding a county somewhere that allows gay marriage is part of his justification for wanting the US to do the same. So why not adopt China's one child policy? why not kill young daughters as some do in India? Honor killings of daughters in muslim countries (US also)?

Knucklehead these questions don't actually require a response. They are simply used to show the how some things, done by others, do not make them right for the rest of us.:duel:
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
I sort of agree with what you're saying when it comes to bestial acts. For others that want to lump that in, that's fine for them, but I don't take cross species dating the same as I do human/human :lol:

I do not see what you're saying insofar as polygamy or even incest relationships though. Hetero- or homo- would not be an issue, as homosexual relationhips are what's being discussed as acceptable or not acceptable in terms of government recognition of the relationship (calling it "marriage", applying similar benefits status, etc.).

So, what would the difference be if the relationship is between two, three, four, six, etc., etc., consenting aged people? A relationship of love, intimacy, logevity, etc., should be no different if it's two women, two men, a man and a woman, a man and two women, a woman and two men., a brother with his sister and her "partner" (whatever the gender may be), etc. As said above by many, just because you can't have children from the relationship does not mean the relationship isn't worthwhile, right? So, incestuous relationships shouldn't be a problem, right?

Polygamy and incest are very, very shortly down the slippery slope should we decide to recognize homosexual relationships as equal to the benefit of society as heterosexual relationships. Forget they're not as beneficial to society, forget that we're talking about 0.5% of the population that even wants the ability to do this (see links in previous posts for stats). Just imagine what else will be the logical outfall from it.
I can see one issue that the government would have with polygamous or incestuous marriages. It could last indefinitely. All of the inheritance laws would have to be either modified or tossed out completely. Would inheritance taxes catch on the death of one of the original partners or on the last of the originals. Incest could cause the same issue, starting with the father marrying the daughter, who in turn marries her son, who marries his daughter etc...
As I said earlier though, worry that issue when it come up, not before.
 
Top