House vote on health care bill(s) close

[BuddyLee]

msnbc.com Video Player

Video.

This was a vote on the MSNBC website.

38.8% are happy. 53.7% are angry. The rest are indifferent or don't care.

Pretty much sums it up.

Newsvine - The House has passed an historic health care overhaul. Are you excited or angry?

 

[Starlifter756]

Under the plan, most of the costs are financed by supposed savings in Medicare spending and the like (e.g. some small Medicaid savings). A small amount is financed by penalties imposed on uninsured individuals, a small amount by penalties imposed on employers, some by the tax on Cadillac plans, some by the the increased payroll taxes on higher incomes, some by taxes on medical devices and the like. But, the biggest portion of it still comes from the Medicare savings that have been decreed as forthcoming.



Fair enough, but most of the new taxation won't apply directly to most people. Also, the increases in Medicare payroll taxes don't kick in until 2013.

Huh?? Cutting $500B in Medicare! Raising taxes by $500B! and this is not all of it. This will end up costing us $2.5T-$3.5T in this first 10 years. The delay in tax collection will only be compounded (literally) through interest payments on debt.

Don't misunderstand, this will effect ALL of us; either is payroll taxes, at the pumps, grocery stores, buying or selling homes and properties, restaurants, buying or selling cars, stock trades, capital gains, and every other thing that involves a transaction of any kind. By 2020, your comprehensive taxes and fees will double, which results in a 25% - 50% reduction in disposable income.

Morally, everyone should have access to health care - and they do. But this is fiscally irresponsible. The Dems deflected their failures in commerce development, job development, and overall economic stimulus and leveraged those failures to health care. All of their "poster child" examples started of with..."so and so LOST THEIR JOBS and lost their insurance..." The deflection is not addressing the cause, but the result.

This is a sad, sad day as it is another boost on our journey to a true Socialist Republic. Hopefully, the States can be successful in their fight on the constitutionality of this Obamination - AND we can get rid of Hoyer this November.

 

[Larry Gude]

With the majority of both parties and independents favoring voting all the incumbents out, he is toast.

He's not an incumbent. None of this mess is on his hands, at least not in the practical sense that he is in national office of late. Heck, he will, wisely, promote that fact. He will be an outsider.

 

[Larry Gude]

The terrorists always said they would destroy this country from within, looks like their boy obama has done well for them.

I look at him and house whores as enemies of the state.

Yeah. Everything started going bad January, 2009.

The biggest weapon our enemies have is our own ignorance, our cluelessness as to how we got here and why. Hell, Obama is actually bad for them, if you think about it, because even if we are ignorant, we are becoming agitated.

Who knows? Maybe we will figure it out.

 

[Larry Gude]

Repeating myself:

I firmly believe that the U.S. will be bankrupt inside of 4 years. The progressives, liberals, or whatever they want to call themselves are for one world government where all people everywhere are told what to do and how to do it by a government. The bankrupting of the U.S. is just one more step, a major one, to that end.

How? You and I, bankruptcy is rather easy to define; the inability to meet our financial obligations. Then, what happens? The slate gets wiped clean and we start over, our creditors get to eat the bill.

How does the nation go bankrupt? What would it look like? As long as we are still making our payments, servicing our debt, we're not even close to bankruptcy.

 

[EmptyTimCup]

Repeating myself:

I firmly believe that the U.S. will be bankrupt inside of 4 years.

Glenn Beck has said as much .... and Progressives will point and say Democracy is Broken, Capitalism doesn't work .... we must remake this country in the Socialism / Communist manner ....


really just Fascism IMHO Gobberment dictating to businesses how they must Operate

 

[Larry Gude]

Again though, I understand that they are just fighting tooth and nail to hold back something they see as evil - it does however marginalize their complaints about the other side's supposed abuses of process.

Evil? Oh, please! This mess is simply the cherry on top of the sundae the Dems have handed them, a clear path back to power when, had the Dems chosen to be practical and 'un' evil, the GOP would be out of power for a generation.

Evil.

 

[EmptyTimCup]

I understand why the opponents of the health care bill moved to have HR 4872 recommitted, but, honestly, the tactic is somewhat disingenuous. They argue (rightfully perhaps) that the Democrats' use of the reconciliation process is inappropriate here,

I heard Gretta on Fox talking to some guy, I probably should have recognized him but I did not, anyway he was saying "Anything that makes changes to SS cannot be modified under Reconciliation, but must face a full vote of Congress, and the Dems had been conviently been ignoring this fact"


IMHO this is going to be tired up in Court for along time ..... hopefully the SCOTUS will not readily accept any challenges to this bill, and they have to wind their way through the Courts

 

[Larry Gude]

I hope all those 219 enjoy their recess over the Easter break. I would imagine a good part of this country is mad as hell and ...

...well, I think I'd hate to be one of those 219 or so walking about the country without the protections afforded to those higher up in our government.

There are just so many unpredictable people out there. Not that I would condone anything like that. I'm just saying.

Oh, come on! I agree with you that folks are mad. I don't agree with the sentiment that our duly elected leaders should be living in fear. This is an opportunity. Not the end of the world. Now, if we're truly mad, if we truly want to fix things, we vote. Maybe now we stop voting for Les Evil and start voting for folks whose records actually suggest that they see things the way we do.

 

[Larry Gude]

Elections have consequences!!

Not to worry - November is coming.

There you go!

 

[Larry Gude]

They won't have jobs, but they'll have HealthCare!! Wonder how you can convert healthcare into mortgage payments or car payments?

Jobs? You want JOBS??

Let them have HEALTHCARE!!

Good one!

 

[EmptyTimCup]

Elections have consequences!!

yeah and ???


do you expect this to every be fully repealed, especially with the Senate Procedural Rules Changes, for even proposing a change to the health care bill, you will need a supramajority just to propose a rule change, then debate the rule change, then change the rule, then another S-Majority to submit a bill to change any portion to the HC Bill as it was passed ....

 

[EmptyTimCup]

Yeah, a lot of employers will get rid of employees if they are forced to provide health insurance.

maybe ... for many they my just drop the Private HC and pay the 9% payroll fine and let them get the Gobberment Plan

 

[Larry Gude]

The way I understand it, and I could be wrong, If so then correct me.
I have insurance through work, we pay a certain amount, the employer pays the rest.
this tax from what I understand is going to start coming out right away, even though the health care wont start for a number of years.

Am I correct so far? Even though I have insurance, I am still going to start paying for the socialist care?

if so, the amount taken out each month would most likely be enough to make a payment on a new truck.

Its been hard trying to get answers as to the amount it will cost us, best guess from other non reliable sites estimates it at around 400 to 600 a month. That is not affordable to me.

and I still dont understand what exactly is involved with public option. I have the option to pay for my own insurance, but will still be stuck paying for the socialist care?

This is why the sun comes up tomorrow; no one knows WTF is going on. 2,700 pages? If, and I say IF, the GOP takes this as an opportunity, this whole thing can start to be chopped apart starting this fall.

What the Dems have created is a series of time bombs that will come back to haunt them each step of the way as the details become clearer over time. Now, to take advantage of the politics of this to both repeal pieces of this thing and, AND prevent them from adding more to it.

We shall see.

 

[Vince]

Medicare is taking a hit.. anyone know what the bill says about Tri_care/ VA health coverage??

Yep. If you have Tricare be prepared for a big hit. Co-pays are going up, out of pocket expenses are going way up. For the amount they are going to raise all the stuff I can go out and buy Blue Cross/Blue Shield, but then that's going to go sky high also. We're screwed. I'm going to end up paying taxes to pay for insurance for those that are too dayum lazy to work for it or can't afford it, and I'm going to have to give up my own health insurance because I won't be able to afford it. What the #### is going on with this country. These politicians are the stupiest bunch I've ever seen. Socialism really works well Mr. Obama. Eff you.

 

[Larry Gude]

Wait.. Who needs to pay a mortgage? With free Health Care they can just live in a hospital..

..

Well, bob, funny you should mention that. How about free homes as a right?

Lat night when Pelosi was rattling off our 'unalienable rights', life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, I was waiting for some sarcastic GOP'er to blurt out 'healthcare' as she paused, to illustrate the absurdity of the very premise of healthcare as a RIGHT.

If healthcare, why not a house? Why not cloths? Why not food, a laptop? Lottery tickets?

 

[Larry Gude]

There is no way they can provide any of this without raisiing taxes.

oh and, I am afraid that between my wife and I, we do make enough to be taxed on this crap.

EVERYONE gets taxed. EVERYONE. Every single dollar the government spends, be it actual taxes received to the treasury or borrowed from whomever, is a dollar that comes out of the economy. That is a dollar that is not available to the richest of us or the poorest.

That's the fundamental argument about government spending; is a given dollar, a given idea better spent BY we, the people or by the government?

Roads; government
Military; government
medical care; we, the people

 

[Larry Gude]

Don't misunderstand, this will effect ALL of us; either is payroll taxes, at the pumps, grocery stores, buying or selling homes and properties, restaurants, buying or selling cars, stock trades, capital gains, and every other thing that involves a transaction of any kind. By 2020, your comprehensive taxes and fees will double, which results in a 25% - 50% reduction in disposable income.

Yup.

 

[bcp]

If healthcare, why not a house? Why not cloths? Why not food, a laptop? Lottery tickets?

Tis welfare you speak of.

but, the left assures us that not only will it not cost anything, it will actually save trillions.
I guess Im not smart enough to understand how so much can be given for not only free, but at a profit.

 

[Larry Gude]

Tis welfare you speak of.

but, the left assures us that not only will it not cost anything, it will actually save trillions.
I guess Im not smart enough to understand how so much can be given for not only free, but at a profit.

You are plenty smart. What the government gives away, it bought from someone, at a profit. You tax those profits so you have the money to give more stuff away.

The problems arise in what those give aways produce. A highway, a government give away, if you think about it, promotes more commerce, more income base to tax. So, that's a good 'give away'.

Now, health care, cold, hard fact, improving the health of people who are a drain on society is...a drain on society. Giving Obama the benefit of the doubt, if his new plan actually gets people out of very expensive emergency rooms and into much lower cost routine health care, check ups, better life habits, then, this could actually be a good thing from a strict dollar and cents view.

As for coercive government, well...