House vote on health care bill(s) close

[Tilted]

Huh?? Cutting $500B in Medicare! Raising taxes by $500B! and this is not all of it. This will end up costing us $2.5T-$3.5T in this first 10 years. The delay in tax collection will only be compounded (literally) through interest payments on debt.

Don't misunderstand, this will effect ALL of us; either is payroll taxes, at the pumps, grocery stores, buying or selling homes and properties, restaurants, buying or selling cars, stock trades, capital gains, and every other thing that involves a transaction of any kind. By 2020, your comprehensive taxes and fees will double, which results in a 25% - 50% reduction in disposable income.

Morally, everyone should have access to health care - and they do. But this is fiscally irresponsible. The Dems deflected their failures in commerce development, job development, and overall economic stimulus and leveraged those failures to health care. All of their "poster child" examples started of with..."so and so LOST THEIR JOBS and lost their insurance..." The deflection is not addressing the cause, but the result.

This is a sad, sad day as it is another boost on our journey to a true Socialist Republic. Hopefully, the States can be successful in their fight on the constitutionality of this Obamination - AND we can get rid of Hoyer this November.

Sure - of course it will affect all of us. I'm merely trying to clear up some misunderstandings about what's in the bill. We don't actually have to be misinformed about things to be against them. In fact, opposition to things is often more effective when it is based on an accurate understanding of them.

 

[Larry Gude]

Sure - of course it will affect all of us. I'm merely trying to clear up some misunderstandings about what's in the bill. We don't actually have to be misinformed about things to be against them. In fact, opposition to things is often more effective when it is based on an accurate understanding of them.

WHAT?????????

 

[Vince]

Well, bob, funny you should mention that. How about free homes as a right?

Lat night when Pelosi was rattling off our 'unalienable rights', life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, I was waiting for some sarcastic GOP'er to blurt out 'healthcare' as she paused, to illustrate the absurdity of the very premise of healthcare as a RIGHT.

If healthcare, why not a house? Why not cloths? Why not food, a laptop? Lottery tickets?

They all feel healthcare is a right. That idiot Kurnich or whatever his name was from Ohio, said it right before he voted for the dayum bill. I've never seen it written where it is a right.

 

[Tilted]

How? You and I, bankruptcy is rather easy to define; the inability to meet our financial obligations. Then, what happens? The slate gets wiped clean and we start over, our creditors get to eat the bill.

How does the nation go bankrupt? What would it look like? As long as we are still making our payments, servicing our debt, we're not even close to bankruptcy.

It is particularly difficult to go bankrupt when you issue debt in your own currency. In fact, in order to do so, you pretty much have to decide that you want to go bankrupt at a given point. Your currency may take a beating, and your fiscal situation may become otherwise problematic, but bankruptcy isn't a real concern when your IOU's are denominated in your IOU's.

 

[Larry Gude]

They all feel healthcare is a right. That idiot Kurnich or whatever his name was from Ohio, said it right before he voted for the dayum bill. I've never seen it written where it is a right.

And, if we could get you to run for office, that right there is the core of your campaign; We have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We do NOT have the right to one another's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

 

[bcp]

Lets not forget their idea to tax Medicare payments as investments.

 

[Larry Gude]

It is particularly difficult to go bankrupt when you issue debt in your own currency. In fact, in order to do so, you pretty much have to decide that you want to go bankrupt at a given point. Your currency may take a beating, and your fiscal situation may become otherwise problematic, but bankruptcy isn't a real concern when your IOU's are denominated in your IOU's.

Very apropo of current events; He shoots, he scores!!!

 

[Vince]

And, if we could get you to run for office, that right there is the core of your campaign; We have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We do NOT have the right to one another's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Not a chance. Not smart enough and I hate politics. The only thing I have that the current administration doesn't is common sense.

 

[Larry Gude]

Lets not forget their idea to tax Medicare payments as investments.

No, dummy! We tax 'em as income! The rates are higher.

 

[Bann]

Oh, come on! I agree with you that folks are mad. I don't agree with the sentiment that our duly elected leaders should be living in fear. This is an opportunity. Not the end of the world. Now, if we're truly mad, if we truly want to fix things, we vote. Maybe now we stop voting for Les Evil and start voting for folks whose records actually suggest that they see things the way we do.

Yeah, I agree - but I was just sayin'. There are loonies out there and this has made a lot of them mad, too.

November is coming, I think that will inspire more people to vote this time than in any other election.

 

[Tilted]

Evil? Oh, please! This mess is simply the cherry on top of the sundae the Dems have handed them, a clear path back to power when, had the Dems chosen to be practical and 'un' evil, the GOP would be out of power for a generation.

Evil.

I was referring specifically to their beliefs regarding supposed taxpayer funding of abortion, not to their views on the bill more generally. That is what they were asking to have the reconciliation bill recommitted to address.

 

[Larry Gude]

Not a chance. Not smart enough and I hate politics. The only thing I have that the current administration doesn't is common sense.

Well, Vince, I would argue that we've had just about as much of 'smart' people who love politics as we can take.

I think your one qualification over them is just about enough.

 

[Tilted]

I heard Gretta on Fox talking to some guy, I probably should have recognized him but I did not, anyway he was saying "Anything that makes changes to SS cannot be modified under Reconciliation, but must face a full vote of Congress, and the Dems had been conviently been ignoring this fact"


IMHO this is going to be tired up in Court for along time ..... hopefully the SCOTUS will not readily accept any challenges to this bill, and they have to wind their way through the Courts

There will no doubt be a myriad of judicial challenges, but, by and large, the courts aren't going to get involved in questioning the procedures by which laws are/were enacted. Once you have an enrolled bill, the courts pretty much stay out of how you got it (per Field v Clark and other decisions).

 

[Larry Gude]

I was referring specifically to their beliefs regarding supposed taxpayer funding of abortion, not to their views on the bill more generally. That is what they were asking to have the reconciliation bill recommitted to address.

Well, now we are entering into the subjective. Many of these same people only see evil when their favorite parts of the constitution is being assaulted and don't seem to much mind when other parts are under attack.

They really wanna put an end to public funding of abortion all they need to is rise in support of it.

"Madame Speaker, as a fiscally responsible public servant, I can see no faster, more effective path to ridding the public of the scourge of lay abouts and leeches and criminals than for their irresponsible, drug addicted, stupid moms who can't even keep a dad around to snuff this problem out at the source!"

 

[Bann]

yeah and ???


do you expect this to every be fully repealed, especially with the Senate Procedural Rules Changes, for even proposing a change to the health care bill, you will need a supramajority just to propose a rule change, then debate the rule change, then change the rule, then another S-Majority to submit a bill to change any portion to the HC Bill as it was passed ....

I expect all Conservative Republicans & Democrats to get off their lazy asses and go vote in November. They need to elect people who will work tirelessly to reverse some of this. It can be done.

This country is NOT A LEFIST country. I didn't believe it in November 2008 and I don't believe it now. The people who didn't show up in November of 2008 to vote (and they know who they are) AND the people who fell for the Glamour Puss Obama's empty promises of Hope & Change (and they know who they are) are now seeing the consequences of their actions.

Doom & gloom will get us nowhere. Taking action is the only way to change things.

 

[bcp]

Evil? Oh, please! This mess is simply the cherry on top of the sundae the Dems have handed them, a clear path back to power when, had the Dems chosen to be practical and 'un' evil, the GOP would be out of power for a generation.

Evil.

You are wrong, and you overestimate the average voter.
example.
O'Malley slammed the state with the highest tax hikes in history, now, on the other forum that I sometimes read, people were pissed.
Even those that voted for him were pissed, had the election been that next day, or even the next month, O'Malley would have recieved less votes for office than JPC will get.

Read that same forum today.
Those people have forgotten, they once again praise O'Malley, he can do no wrong, and they plan to vote for him again.

Do you honestly think that come November, given the fact that not all the new taxes and fees will have been implemented yet, people will stop to remember they are mad? or do you think that the habit of voting party line will win them over.

 

[Larry Gude]

a myriad

'A myriad' or 'myriad'?

 

[Larry Gude]

You are wrong, and you overestimate the average voter.
example.
O'Malley slammed the state with the highest tax hikes in history, now, on the other forum that I sometimes read, people were pissed.
Even those that voted for him were pissed, had the election been that next day, or even the next month, O'Malley would have recieved less votes for office than JPC will get.

Read that same forum today.
Those people have forgotten, they once again praise O'Malley, he can do no wrong, and they plan to vote for him again.

Do you honestly think that come November, given the fact that not all the new taxes and fees will have been implemented yet, people will stop to remember they are mad? or do you think that the habit of voting party line will win them over.

No, I am not wrong.

I said they handed the GOP a clear path. I didn't say they'd take it.

 

[Larry Gude]

Doom & gloom will get us nowhere. Taking action is the only way to change things.

Atta girl! No more Les Evil!

 

[bcp]

Atta girl! No more Les Evil!

As true as that is, the fact is that the country will not vote in a third party right now.
So, at least as far as health care goes, I have to say that the republicans, those that fought against it, those that tried to shut it down, were doing exactly what I would have wanted them to do in this instance.