How Chivalry Came to Be Seen as Toxic Masculinity

[GURPS]

It was not very long ago that courtesy towards women on the part of men—little things such as opening doors and offering seats—was regarded as natural and pleasant. Times changed, though, and such deference came to be seen as patronising and oppressive; an integral part of a patriarchal society. This was mildly annoying, but much worse was to come. In the 1980s, the expression ‘toxic masculinity’ was coined; surprisingly by men themselves. It emerged from the mythopoetic men's movement in the United States, with the suggestion that typical male traits such as seeking dominance, and success, combined with a drive for self-reliance and the suppression of emotions, could be damaging for both men and society as a whole. It was said that women were especially likely to be the victims of this supposed syndrome. This defective version of masculinity would inexorably lead, or so it was claimed, to domestic violence and rape. In a classic case of what one might not inaptly describe as ‘mission creep’, the problem then began to be identified as not merely ‘toxic’ masculinity, but masculinity itself. So it was that the rooting out of masculinity in male children came to be seen as a praiseworthy and desirable enterprise.

The phrase ‘Boys will be boys’ was seen as the essence of the problem. Boys who settled their differences with their fists in childhood and rejected the idea of crying as being unmanly were likely to grow up to be wife-beaters and rapists. A campaign began with the aim of banning this pernicious expression of juvenile masculinity entirely. There were of course those who asked that if boys were no longer to be boys, then what would they be? The answer, as we are now seeing from the veritable epidemic of transsexualism, is that boys will be girls; a healthier state of affairs all around, at least according to some.

How Chivalry Came to Be Seen as Toxic Masculinity | Lotus Eaters

It was not very long ago that courtesy towards women on the part of men—little things such as opening doors and offering seats—was regarded as natural and pleasant. Times changed, though, and such deference came to be seen as patronisingidentified as not merely ‘toxic’ masculinity, but...

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[vraiblonde]

The people who write this stuff are largely out of NY, LA, or some other dystopian hellscape. It's what they are surrounded by, so they think it's the whole country. Anything outside their tiny little bubble is strange and exotic.

In the real world men still open doors for women - and each other, for that matter. People say hi to strangers and make small talk in line at the post office. Children say please and thank you. "Times" haven't changed a whole lot outside of major metropolitan areas.

I just had a discussion with a friend who lives in DC who was insisting that the nightmare of his city is "reality". My argument was no, that's his reality in his wee little bitty environment. My reality, that I experienced for 5 years in 34 states, is that people are friendly and courteous and you can go out at night without worrying about being mugged. Crime still shocks us because it's not the norm.

But because most national media orgs are based in major metro areas, they write/report for that audience from that paradigm....completely forgetting that 90% of Americans can't relate. That's why there are all these stories about women who can't find a boyfriend who isn't gay or a sociopath; and guys griping that women aren't marriage material anymore. They're looking in the wrong place.

Chivalry is not seen as toxic in the vast majority of this country. Only tweaky chicks who read Cosmo think that. In fact it's just the opposite - if some guy sat on his ass while an older lady stood, he'd be getting eyeballed hard. If he rolled through a door and let it close in some woman's face - or a guy's face, for that matter - everyone who saw him do it would think he was a lout raised by wolves.

I feel sorry for people who live in those terrible places that they're constantly griping about.

 

[glhs837]

The thing that bothers me is that while I hold doors for everyone with a pulse, quite a few seem to feel the need to toss an arm out in case I change my mind. I get there are cases where the person holding the door doesn't make it clear they are holding it for you. But I make it a point to make eye contact and give a nod to let them know I'm waiting for them. Does this happen, that *******s suck you in with a smile and a nod and then jam the door on you?

 

[SamSpade]

See, I think small things that are "common courtesy" SHOULD come without thinking, like covering a cough or sneeze or not littering. Yeah, I realize lots of people don't observe those, but for the rest of us NORMAL people, we do it without thinking. Others, like saying excuse me, thank you and please are learned, but I've seen most people observe them.

It's more subtle things, like don't put your shopping cart in an intersection blocking FOUR WAYS while you browse the shelves. If you're driving slow, pull to the right. Don't walk - or DRIVE - in the middle of a parking lot lane.

SOME things must be learned.

One thing sadly I've had to UNLEARN is complimenting a woman on her appearance, especially if to an observant eye, she's made an effort to look nice. WHY "unlearn"?

This same shite you see up in the original post - even people you know WELL, you need to be cautious, because saying that looks nice on you is going to be interpreted as invasive, threatening, an unwanted sexual overture.

"Chivalry" - THAT I had to be taught. "Respect for elders" and so forth - taught. That's culture, and it would be a shame to see it disappear or assaulted on some stupid altar of wokeness. I like living in a world where people are nice and no one thinks that behaving this way is attacking them.

 

[vraiblonde]

One thing sadly I've had to UNLEARN is complimenting a woman on her appearance, especially if to an observant eye, she's made an effort to look nice. WHY "unlearn"?

This same shite you see up in the original post - even people you know WELL, you need to be cautious, because saying that looks nice on you is going to be interpreted as invasive, threatening, an unwanted sexual overture.

Most women like to be complimented on their appearance, especially if they've made an effort to doll up. Not some skeevy, "Humma humma woo" thing, it should just be a "Wow, you look great!"

I actually know a guy who thinks an appropriate compliment is, "Boom chicka, I'd hit that!"

Yeah, don't do that.

 

[Kyle]

I actually know a guy who thinks an appropriate compliment is, "Boom chicka, I'd hit that!"

Yeah, don't do that.

You also said "I'd check her for breast lumps anyday" was also a no go.

Theres just no pleasing some people.

 

[Sneakers]

So, when walking thru the store, if a woman says, "Excuse me", the right response is not, "Squeeze you?!?! I don't even know you!!"

 

[Kyle]

So, when walking thru the store, if a woman says, "Excuse me", the right response is "did you fart?"

:fixed:

 

[stgislander]

One thing sadly I've had to UNLEARN is complimenting a woman on her appearance, especially if to an observant eye, she's made an effort to look nice. WHY "unlearn"?

I was giving blood yesterday, and the technician was a black woman with very pretty long braided hair. I wanted to complement her on it and ask how long it took to do that. I thought better of it and kept my mouth shut.

 

[LightRoasted]

For your consideration ...

I raised my son with full blown toxic masculinity. He has been fully indoctrinated in what it is to be a man. As my father raised me. Respectful, polite, and courteous to others, while also being true to himself, and standing his ground.

Society is still a very much a patriarchal society. It's just that from the constant pounding of a controlling and programming media, it is easy for one to think he opposite.

There is a dichotomy within many feminist women though. There have been times, (rare), where I am entering a store and see a woman approaching to enter as well. However, as one would look at her gait and facial expressions as she looks at the door and a man, it is easy to see that she is a feminist, (full of bitterness), and wants nothing to do with, and despises, men. Then, when the man, (me), does not hold the door for her and strolls inside with the door closing behind forcing her to open the door herself that was just moments ago opened, the look on her face is priceless. "Why didn't you hold the door for me *******", is the look. Each encounter with a women is calculated to determine the appropriate action to be taken. This does not happen all the time as the extreme number of women I've encountered are thankful, and, some have even commented that, "good to see chivalry is not dead" while smiling and being appreciative.

Many feminists want to have their cake, and eat it too. I just don't play that game.

I was giving blood yesterday, and the technician was a black woman with very pretty long braided hair. I wanted to complement her on it and ask how long it took to do that. I thought better of it and kept my mouth shut.

I complement many black, (and white), women, (even the ones where you can just tell that every bone in their body is racists towards Whites), as cashiers, or in other positions. Never have experienced a negative reaction, just the opposite. They are always flattered, sometimes shocked, and thankful for being complimented. Learned to find something to complement on anyone from .... poop I forget. One of those motivational fellas a long long time ago. It works, raises others spirits, and can easily make a person's day as well as making your life easier.

Here's an experiment for ya. When out an about, say in a grocery store and a women, (standing in the checkout, or an aisle as you're passing by), is wearing very nice smelling perfume; Compliment her on it on how nice it is. Ask her the name of it. And don't linger. [This is not used as a pickup line]. If you ever want to make someone's day, (stranger's), this is how you do it. Small acts of kindness have rippling effects.

 

[Kyle]

I was giving blood yesterday, and the technician was a black woman with very pretty long braided hair. I wanted to complement her on it and ask how long it took to do that. I thought better of it and kept my mouth shut.

Smart choice.

It's always awkward when they drape below the mini skirt.

 

[DaSDGuy]

I still hold the doors open. A new item I do could be called chivalry. I carry a small bottle of hand sanitizer from Bath & Body Works that I offer to anyone who shakes my hand in a greeting. I hold the bottle, squeeze some into my hand, and offer them some too. They don't even need to touch the bottle.

 

[Kyle]

I still hold the doors open. A new item I do could be called chivalry. I carry a small bottle of hand sanitizer from Bath & Body Works that I offer to anyone who shakes my hand in a greeting. I hold the bottle, squeeze some into my hand, and offer them some too.

They taught us something similar in a Management Seminar.

After shaking employees hands, be sure to Purell right in front of them so they understand exactly how filthy and beneath you they are.

 

[stgislander]

They taught us something similar in a Management Seminar.

After shaking employees hands, be sure to Purell right in front of them so they understand exactly how filthy and beneath you they are.

You and Gilligan went to the same seminar huh?